Wayne Rooney

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

compo tends to be a fraction of what any transfer fee would have been

Not based on tribunal rules. Tribunals usually arrive at a fee halfway between what the selling club is askign for and the buying club is offering.

[DavesaRam]

Here’s a slightly different take: the fall-off in performance prior to relegation was Steve Gibson’s fault. And Rick Parry/the EFL’s fault. At the time Gibson, plus the Wycombe wassock, had wholly unfounded compensation claims against us for us allegedly costing them promotion, but the EFL delayed dealing with it, and then refused to decide whether the claims would be classed as a football debt, or a non-football debt. This refusal to define the potential debts meant that our application to come out of administration was denied. In turn this led to key players, on 6 month contracts due to being in admin, couldn’t renew, with Phil Jagielka being one of those affected. So the heart of the team was ripped out, and we were done for. 
 

NOT Rooney’s fault. He acted with great dignity at a very tough time, once he had stabbed Cocu in the back. His main problem was being somewhat wet behind the ears when it came to business deals.

[Ram-Alf]

16 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

 

NOT Rooney’s fault. He acted with great dignity at a very tough time, once he had stabbed Cocu in the back. His main problem was being somewhat wet behind the ears when it came to business deals.

The gesture of being very consoling to those that were going to lose their jobs at PP put him in a good light, A them and us situation had an effect for the 1000s that marched to PP when we played BCFC, Yes the word was WR had some influence when PC was elbowed out but not sure it was 100% down to him, As for his business deals WR doesn't come across as a person who's has a great deal of business acumen, He employs people to do that, They'll advise on what, Where, When and how he invests his money.

The £1.7million ish that was loaned to Kirchner by WRs agent was a catalyst I believe to WR walking away, Steven Pearce it was reported pleaded with WR to stay on, It was going to get messy if WR stayed with stories in the press, This I believe was the reason he left, Moving to the States looked a stab in the back for us, His ability as a manager in the States didn't look to good, But look behind the façade of WR and you'll find people who need him and he needs them, The Wayne Rooney name carries plenty of ££££s, I believe this will be a make or break situation for him, If he does well Everton maybe will come a calling, If he doesn't then there'll be a club somewhere that needs a high profile.

I like the fella, I dislike BCFC.  

[MadAmster]

52 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Not based on tribunal rules. Tribunals usually arrive at a fee halfway between what the selling club is askign for and the buying club is offering.

Take Cash as an example. Brighton. allegedly, offered £3M in the summer. His contract expires in the summer. They'll offer next to nothing and let the tribunal decide what compo is to be paid to recompense DCFC for what his time at the club has cost.

The same will be true for Max, Sibs and Tommo. We will get a fraction of what we'd have got last summer.

The Derby Way. Will we never learn?

It would be interesting to know if the club hasn't yet offered new deals or if the players have turned them down/been dragging their heels.

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

The gesture of being very consoling to those that were going to lose their jobs at PP put him in a good light, A them and us situation had an effect for the 1000s that marched to PP when we played BCFC, Yes the word was WR had some influence when PC was elbowed out but not sure it was 100% down to him, As for his business deals WR doesn't come across as a person who's has a great deal of business acumen, He employs people to do that, They'll advise on what, Where, When and how he invests his money.

The £1.7million ish that was loaned to Kirchner by WRs agent was a catalyst I believe to WR walking away, Steven Pearce it was reported pleaded with WR to stay on, It was going to get messy if WR stayed with stories in the press, This I believe was the reason he left, Moving to the States looked a stab in the back for us, His ability as a manager in the States didn't look to good, But look behind the façade of WR and you'll find people who need him and he needs them, The Wayne Rooney name carries plenty of ££££s, I believe this will be a make or break situation for him, If he does well Everton maybe will come a calling, If he doesn't then there'll be a club somewhere that needs a high profile.

I like the fella, I dislike BCFC.  

Spot on I reckon mate. Afterall I think that part of the deal to get him here would have been that he could be involved in training as he was at the end of his playing career. I can't think that he really thought Cocu would leave and Mel would ask him to take over. If anything the blame is at Mel's door. Remember when Rooney couldn't get Mel on the phone, but Mel answered the doctors number! That's Mel's behaviour, and I think Mel ousting Cocu when he realised that Rooney would be inclined to take the opportunity presented, was more evidence of that.

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, MadAmster said:

Take Cash as an example. Brighton. allegedly, offered £3M in the summer. His contract expires in the summer. They'll offer next to nothing and let the tribunal decide what compo is to be paid to recompense DCFC for what his time at the club has cost.

The same will be true for Max, Sibs and Tommo. We will get a fraction of what we'd have got last summer.

The Derby Way. Will we never learn?

It would be interesting to know if the club hasn't yet offered new deals or if the players have turned them down/been dragging their heels.

Some of the factors:

Age of players - older = more certain of potential and a higher upfront fee.
Academy status - Cat 1 = more time, money and implied quality of coaching put into the player
Contract offers - the higher the wage offer = higher fee
Playing record - games played for club and international level
Interest from other clubs - concrete offers, "Interest shown by other clubs may assist the PFCC in establishing the calibre of the player.  The more concrete such interest, the more weight it will be given.... a written offer for the transfer of a player may assist the PFCC in determining the player’s quality and potential."

My point stands. If Brighton offered £3m, and they sign him on a 'free' in the summer, they would have to have very good reasons to now value him at a fee below that figure.

[Premier ram]

Always grateful to Wayne for his efforts here but couldn’t care less how good or bad he does at that nothing club 

[MadAmster]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

My point stands. If Brighton offered £3m, and they sign him on a 'free' in the summer, they would have to have very good reasons to now value him at a fee below that figure.

The shorter time left on a contract, the lower the fees offered. If BHA come back in January for Cashin, they won't be offering Derby £3M. That's how it works, unfortunately.

[kevinhectoring]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:33, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

More fool them.

I thought he was a mediocre manager at best whose wages helped to drain the club's finances even further at a time we could ill afford to do so.

Plus I feel he was always instrumental in the removal of cocu and undermined him as the manager in his own desire for management.

And he will always be the man who was in charge when we were relegated to league 1.

A massive mistake by Birmingham that won't them take long to regret I fear.

Agree with all this. Tho’ in the short term if he still has the ability to persuade players to sign, and other clubs to loan, then they might do ok out of it. But it’ll end in tears 

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

over. If anything the blame is at Mel's door. Remember when Rooney couldn't get Mel on the phone, but Mel answered the doctors number! That's Mel's behaviour,

For sure, Morris had a lot to answer for. But he gave Rooney everything he asked for (including Cocu’s head) and Rooney stabbed him in the back when he saw which way the wind was blowing. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

For sure, Morris had a lot to answer for. But he gave Rooney everything he asked for (including Cocu’s head) and Rooney stabbed him in the back when he saw which way the wind was blowing. 

You have proof of this? Why would Cocu leave amicably then, even refusing some of his due pay-off?

[Millenniumram]

5 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

For sure, Morris had a lot to answer for. But he gave Rooney everything he asked for (including Cocu’s head) and Rooney stabbed him in the back when he saw which way the wind was blowing. 

Mel stabbing Rooney in the back is a new take 😂

[BondJovi]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Spot on I reckon mate. Afterall I think that part of the deal to get him here would have been that he could be involved in training as he was at the end of his playing career. I can't think that he really thought Cocu would leave and Mel would ask him to take over. If anything the blame is at Mel's door. Remember when Rooney couldn't get Mel on the phone, but Mel answered the doctors number! That's Mel's behaviour, and I think Mel ousting Cocu when he realised that Rooney would be inclined to take the opportunity presented, was more evidence of that.

There were those reports in press only a few games into the season about Rooney lining up his coaching staff, for a job that wasn't even available! No denials there.

I don't for one moment believe Rooney signed on with the intention of becoming manager. I think he genuinely saw it as an opportunity to learn from a great coach. I then think  he realised his playing days were numbered (quicker than expected) and that behind the scenes it wasn't what was sold to him (or Cocu for that matter). His performances after lockdown were dreadful, he had completely let himself go, it showed a huge lack of respect on all parts. When things weren't going well, I believe he used it to his advantage (or was advised to) to position himself as the man to save the day. His big things will be different speech, 15-20 games later, it was as bad, if not worse than before!

Rooney to me remains a conflicting character. On one hand, I thought he was magnificent as a figure head (as manager...no) when the club were in crisis. On the other, I can't really forgive a player who undermimes his manager, a player who let himself go to the point of being useless when we needed him most. A manager who showed appaling man management of Whittaker and to some degree Sibley. Add to that, despite being the man fighting to stop the final nail going in the coffin, he very nearly puts it in himself with the Kirchner deal. 

A well written character in a modern story, his moral compass remains ambiguous. 

 

[Carl Sagan]

I liked the breathtaking young Rooney with his world-leading brilliance and love for the game. It didn't last long. For a decade he became an impediment to the England team. His arrival at Derby completely undermined Cocu, who had the potential to do something special at our club, if Mel hadn't insisted on this absurd bit of tinkering. Yet in the administration season, with the club leaderless, Rooney stepped up and held everything together which was an immense task - over those months, despite being a poor football manager, he was a magnificent leader of men, and I'll remember him fondly for that. But after he buggered off my attitude to him is now much more "meh". I don't especially associate him with us mentally, and I don't care about him or Birmingham. I do care that Paul Warne isn't making nearly enough of some talented players at his disposal (including but not limited to Cash) which means those players will almost certainly leave. In which case I don't care where they go, as long as we get the most money for them. But it will be heartbreaking as they should be at the club leading us to promotion.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

You have proof of this? Why would Cocu leave amicably then, even refusing some of his due pay-off?

Because he was a very decent man 🫣

[Ramarena]

They replaced Eustace with Rooney?

 

Garry Cook involved as well, hmmmmm glad we dodged that bullet 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Ramarena

[DRBee]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:33, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

More fool them.

I thought he was a mediocre manager at best whose wages helped to drain the club's finances even further at a time we could ill afford to do so.

Plus I feel he was always instrumental in the removal of cocu and undermined him as the manager in his own desire for management.

And he will always be the man who was in charge when we were relegated to league 1.

A massive mistake by Birmingham that won't them take long to regret I fear.

Your post  is a dreadful rewriting of history, even though he could not be described as anything better than an average manager.  ... 

Mel Morris undermined Cocu by bringing in Rooney when Cocu had hardly started. 

Cocu's poor results were the cause of his downfall.

We were relegated due to the points deduction and Rooney did his best when not able to bring in players ( particularly more forwards ).

Rooney deserves the plaudits of Rams fans - he had a good stab at keeping us up despite the savage points deduction. He showed great loyalty  to the club and did not jump ship. 

Were his wages not paid by a specific sponsor? 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

20 hours ago, AGR said:

And you think Rooney was the mastermind behind that? 

 

11 hours ago, nottingram said:

I am amazed that not everyone thinks he was heavily involved

His agent was certainly heavily involved.

[Magicman]

Rooney did well as head coach here and brought quite a few young lads through. I am sure he will manage Brum as well and expect bids coming in for Bird & Cashin.

[kevinhectoring]

58 minutes ago, DRBee said:

He showed great loyalty  to the club and did not jump ship. 

His agent’s plan was to install WR in a long term gig giving him tenure as our manager and Stretford a hefty annuity.   Hence their deplorable interference in the takeover process, conspiring with Kirchner. Rooney made no single decision that was in the club’s interests but not his own and he had a fine PR team (albeit they could not control his persecution of bellringers or careless use of hotel rooms). A good manager managing Byrne, Shinnie, Forsyth et al. would have kept us up. An average manager he was not and without LR things would have descended into farce