Serial Whingers Notts Forest playtime, which we simply cannot accept.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, JfR said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/football/article/football-nottingham-forest-points-deduction-decision-financial-rules-gkfpnjmcg
"An appeal by Nottingham Forest against the four-point deduction imposed for breaching the Premier League’s financial rules would run the risk of the sanction being increased."

 

Is there any way to launch an appeal on behalf of someone else? If not, is anyone able to forge Marinakis' handwriting?

I'd let those relegated last season do it for you.

[Premier ram]

18 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Quote from that article.......

 

Mail Sport understands those clubs were Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, West Ham, Aston Villa, Wolves, Nottingham Forest, Crystal Palace and Bournemouth.

If this is true then all those clubs can burn like a greek ref's bakery for eternity as far as i'm concerned.

Villa, Wolves, Gumps, Palace and Bournemouth should know better. They'll all be back there in time, talk about the working class can kiss my ass, absolute effin w anchors, the owners should be ashamed of themselves.

Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool and West Ham are amongst the Rothschilds of the Premier League and could easily afford the tiny bit extra the EPL wanted to offer. I expect that sort of behaviour from those but it still rankles that they care so little about the football pyramid. WTF are the owners thinking? They'd still be filthy rich! It would make no difference to them whatsoever.

 

I would feel the same of Derby if they were in that position and did the same. 

 

                          Spot on mate

[TigerTedd]

If the  CV likes a Gibb’s-White and the other players they massively overpaid for can’t claw them back 4pts then they deserve to be relegated. But then this isn’t a disincentive at all. They might as well by haaland for £200m knowing that he’s easily worth 4 extra points. 

if the league want to really disincentivise clubs from breaking the rules, they need to make the punishment such that relegation is inevitable. Like ours. 

everton and forest will both stay up, easily. So the punishment affects nothing. They’ll just lose a few quid for lost places. The league might as well have just fined them in the first place. 

[ram59]

The Premier league and the independant body need to realise that they're setting a massive precedent here.

In the future, other clubs will expect punishment to be aligned to that issued to Forest, clubs may decide that signing that extra top international for £35m will earn them more than 4 points over the season, especially when you add on subsequent seasons value of that player.

Also, Leicester have grounds to argue that had Forest been deducted those 4 points last season, they wouldn't have been relegated. Could they sue Forest and/or the Premier league for their losses?

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

The Premier league and the independant body need to realise that they're setting a massive precedent here.

In the future, other clubs will expect punishment to be aligned to that issued to Forest, clubs may decide that signing that extra top international for £35m will earn them more than 4 points over the season, especially when you add on subsequent seasons value of that player.

Also, Leicester have grounds to argue that had Forest been deducted those 4 points last season, they wouldn't have been relegated. Could they sue Forest and/or the Premier league for their losses?

Clubs sign up to agree to EPL and EFL rules so threatening to sue should cause that club to be in breach of the regs. Its like being a member of the local darts league, you agree to be governed by the body responsible for running it. If you think the Black Swan cheated against the Red Lion you report it and hope the governing body deals with it according to their rules.

Rick Parry bottled it when Steve Gibson threatened to sue the EFL if they didn't punish Derby. He could easily have told him to do one and let the EFL rules decide if we were guilty rather than threats of legal action decide the outcome.

The fact that they changed the rules about amortisation of player value after they decided we did wrong tells us that we was harshly treated.

Our valuation method supposedly gave us a 30m benefit and cost us 9 points. Forest benefit was 34.5m and cost them 4 points.

They won't appeal because they know they've been let off.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Clubs sign up to agree to EPL and EFL rules so threatening to sue should cause that club to be in breach of the regs. Its like being a member of the local darts league, you agree to be governed by the body responsible for running it. If you think the Black Swan cheated against the Red Lion you report it and hope the governing body deals with it according to their rules.

Rick Parry bottled it when Steve Gibson threatened to sue the EFL if they didn't punish Derby. He could easily have told him to do one and let the EFL rules decide if we were guilty rather than threats of legal action decide the outcome.

The fact that they changed the rules about amortisation of player value after they decided we did wrong tells us that we was harshly treated.

Our valuation method supposedly gave us a 30m benefit and cost us 9 points. Forest benefit was 34.5m and cost them 4 points.

They won't appeal because they know they've been let off.

[TuffLuff]

Had a chat with a mate last night who’d looked through the report and thought I’d share a few good points that were made.

- the -4 doesn’t seem enough of a punishment, -6 seems about right because that would have a serious impact on a clubs aims in a season no matter where they were situated in the league.

-The previously relegated clubs would find it hard to look for compensation/legal action because the accounting period runs through to end of June. So essentially into the next summer transfer window. I hadn’t really thought about that but it’s a good way of maybe stopping what Wycombe and Boro did to us. 

- It’s quite important for a panel to reward compliance. Mainly because you have from July-May to convict and punish. Again you’d think -8 down to -6 would be about right and personally that’s what I think the PL tried to go for.

-Finally, what the PL, and possibly the EFL, want to show is that how Forest got promoted and have stayed in the prem is largely unsustainable for clubs. It worked for them in getting there, but it’s not seemingly going to work over a long term period If other clubs try and copy the approach then we will see big clubs go under. It’s not an agenda against a club not in the top 6, it’s trying to keep all clubs above board. There is a way for clubs to get promoted, be sustainable and compete and grow and that’s needs to be encouraged. Hence why reports that Forest may need to sell big again in the summer to balance the books may being put out to the press.

[GboroRam]

20 hours ago, ram59 said:

The Premier league and the independant body need to realise that they're setting a massive precedent here.

In the future, other clubs will expect punishment to be aligned to that issued to Forest, clubs may decide that signing that extra top international for £35m will earn them more than 4 points over the season, especially when you add on subsequent seasons value of that player.

Also, Leicester have grounds to argue that had Forest been deducted those 4 points last season, they wouldn't have been relegated. Could they sue Forest and/or the Premier league for their losses?

I think they know they're setting a precedent. It's by design. 

Leniency here paves the way for a very mild punishment for Man City. 

I'm expecting an appeal, and a reduction, so that Man City get even less of a punishment. 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

The previously relegated clubs would find it hard to look for compensation/legal action because the accounting period runs through to end of June. So essentially into the next summer transfer window. I hadn’t really thought about that but it’s a good way of maybe stopping what Wycombe and Boro did to us. 

Our penalty was a result of being judged to have failed 3 separate P&S periods.

£7.8m in the 3 years to 2017

£11.7m in the 3 years to 2019

£2m in the 4 years to 2021

Based on the points structure vs excess loss figures set in an earlier case (was it Birmingham?), amd the fact points should be deducted ted in the following season, we would have had 6 points deducted in 17/18, 12 in 19/20, and 3 points in 21/22.

As set out in the Reading and Sheff Weds cases, the value of points deductions was halved - so 3, 6 and 1 (or 2) points respectively. The result of which being:

17/18 - Derby dropping to 8th, with Preston taking our place in the Playoffs 

19/20 - dropping from 10th place to 13th

21/22 - having a maximum of 2 points instead of 9 deducted due to P&S, we would have finished 21st, with Reading finishing in the bottom 3 instead. That's even with the administration points.

 

Both Wycombe and Boro's claims were were wrongful for the point you raise. The season finished before the relevant reporting periods had finished. Wycombe's main claim was from believing the EFL should have given us the full 9 point deduction in 20/21 despite our battle with the EFL not being concluded until a few months later.

Edited March 20 by Ghost of Clough

[Will the Ram]

They could be facing another points deduction. £104M loss before they sold Johnson if I’m reading it right:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/nottingham-forest-profit-sustainability-rules-32391580

[Ghost of Clough]

9 hours ago, Will the Ram said:

They could be facing another points deduction. £104M loss before they sold Johnson if I’m reading it right:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/nottingham-forest-profit-sustainability-rules-32391580

£30m overspend WITH the Johnson sale included.

It means selling someone like Gibbs-White for at least £50m, Elanga for £45m, or Awoniyi for £40m (or several players above book value). 

I think they'll struggle to sell many players at a profit tbh

[Srg]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

£30m overspend WITH the Johnson sale included.

It means selling someone like Gibbs-White for at least £50m, Elanga for £45m, or Awoniyi for £40m (or several players above book value). 

I think they'll struggle to sell many players at a profit tbh

I don't think they'd get much profit for MGW as he was expensive to begin with. Elanga and Awoniyi they can likely make something on. Murillo is the big one.

[richinspain]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

£30m overspend WITH the Johnson sale included.

It means selling someone like Gibbs-White for at least £50m, Elanga for £45m, or Awoniyi for £40m (or several players above book value). 

I think they'll struggle to sell many players at a profit tbh

Surely you can add another nought to those prices if they are prepared to move to Greece?

[Chellaston Ram]

2 hours ago, richinspain said:

Surely you can add another nought to those prices if they are prepared to move to Greece?

Don’t forget 50p for Worrall 

[RadioactiveWaste]

3 hours ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Don’t forget 50p for Worrall 

Is that per ride on Blackpool beach?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

12 hours ago, Srg said:

I don't think they'd get much profit for MGW as he was expensive to begin with. Elanga and Awoniyi they can likely make something on. Murillo is the big one.

25million up front with 17.5 million add ons .  Cost 35 so far.

[TuffLuff]

Bit of fun, but they put up a quote attributed to ‘fan of socialism’ Brian Clough yesterday as a tribute on his birthday. I mean I’m not saying there is a capitalist agenda behind doing this but you can see for yourself here:

Anyway, they have had a special guest at the City Ground today…

[Crewton]

20 hours ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Don’t forget 50p for Worrall 

Wanna see something funny?

[Crewton]

28 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Bit of fun, but they put up a quote attributed to ‘fan of socialism’ Brian Clough yesterday as a tribute on his birthday. I mean I’m not saying there is a capitalist agenda behind doing this but you can see for yourself here:

Anyway, they have had a special guest at the City Ground today…

"Rebel City" FFS

😂

[Premier ram]

2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Bit of fun, but they put up a quote attributed to ‘fan of socialism’ Brian Clough yesterday as a tribute on his birthday. I mean I’m not saying there is a capitalist agenda behind doing this but you can see for yourself here:

Anyway, they have had a special guest at the City Ground today…

Leader of a sinking ship visiting another sinking ship