The Administration Thread

[PistoldPete]

13 minutes ago, ram59 said:

It's interesting to compare the values of Derby and Preston from an investors point of view. To really make any money you need to get promotion to the premier and currently you'd have to say that Preston are in a better position. However, looking at it from a practical point of view it is unlikely that either club will be in the premier any time soon. With this in mind, which club is the better prospect? I believe that even in lg1, Derby will generate a larger income than Preston and more so if competing in the same league, which is the most likely scenario in 2 or 3 years time.

In summary, I would suggest that Derby are more likely to bring in more money for the same expenditure on wages and running costs. 

Looking at the clubs' accounts, Preston are still losing money even with their relatively low wages and running costs. However, if Derby were to be run with the same level of wages and running costs, Derby would be be making a profit from their much larger turnover.

Exactly. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Honestly?

If I were Mike Ashley, I`d be looking around what other clubs I could spend my money on and develop right now.

It appears Kirchner is paying around £40m for Preston, a club with a stadium and squad. Maybe not as much potential as DCFC in terms of fan base etc, but still a famous old club, with great history and currently competing at the right end of the Championship.

If as it seems c£50m is required just to take the Club out of administration, is it a good deal in comparison?

Has MM taken the club too far into a black hole?

I dunno, but trying to be logical about it doesn`t make for a good nights sleep.

I can't see he'd pay that.  If he has he's been ripped off.  Must be a 10 million future promotion payment in that at least.  

[Woodley Ram]

3 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

Well there was a comment to that effect wasn't there - something about additional expressions of interest? If they were a new party in this little admin dance then perhaps there are issues of funding proofs and suitable person tests on top of just evaluating what they are offering to see if it ticks enough boxes. We don't have a whole lot in terms of assets but how much is a golden share worth ? Depends on why you are buying it I suppose. If it is a pure business venture then you probably don't want to offer much but what would say a Gadsby type character be prepared to pay for that ? vs lowball and points deductions ?

Who know though right ? In the meantime we're just helpless and frustrated. Fact is that for all that we look like a terrible deal, something is worth what people will pay for it and that is down to perceptions of the viability of a deal and what competition you have. A failure to comply with minimal settlement of debt is certainly a possibility but in truth none of knows how likely or not.

yes I agree, we need to pay off the debt as per EFL rules otherwise we get a -15 deduction. I don't blame the administrators for keeping quiet

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

34 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

I remember the protracted signing of Jozwiak, many here watching his games for Poland when news broke out we were after him, considering the extra million the price increased to be well worth paying. He was just what Derby needed according to so many and we must sign him. Me, I could not see what everyone else was seeing in him. 

 

Morris to give the stadium back for nowt, then what, the new owners get a £30m stadium thrown in for a £30m takeover fee. They could probably put the club up for sale the next day for £35m, debt free, and make the profit they hoped by investing, a 15 per cent profit thanks to this generous gesture in a blink. They would be the only winners in this and from what I can gather, the sale of the ground will be to pay off the Dell secured loan.

On the whole we may have been better signing that striker for a third of the price I suspect

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Macintosh said:

Morris to give the stadium back for nowt, then what, the new owners get a £30m stadium thrown in for a £30m takeover fee. They could probably put the club up for sale the next day for £35m, debt free, and make the profit they hoped by investing, a 15 per cent profit thanks to this generous gesture in a blink. They would be the only winners in this and from what I can gather, the sale of the ground will be to pay off the Dell secured loan.

Even more fundamentally, throwing in the stadium for free so the buyers can use that money towards the purchase misses one point: the buyer has a choice - pay the money and save a 15 point deduction, or not spend that money and take the penalty.

Even with a thrown in stadium, the option to save that money and just accept a big penalty next season is there. I don't see Mel offering the stadium for nowt, and if he did it wouldn't guarantee anything.

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, Macintosh said:

I remember the protracted signing of Jozwiak, many here watching his games for Poland when news broke out we were after him, considering the extra million the price increased to be well worth paying. He was just what Derby needed according to so many and we must sign him. Me, I could not see what everyone else was seeing in him. 

 

Morris to give the stadium back for nowt, then what, the new owners get a £30m stadium thrown in for a £30m takeover fee. They could probably put the club up for sale the next day for £35m, debt free, and make the profit they hoped by investing, a 15 per cent profit thanks to this generous gesture in a blink. They would be the only winners in this and from what I can gather, the sale of the ground will be to pay off the Dell secured loan.

its not a gesture he's left us in the poo after causing the problem...we were better off with the previous owners!

[Macintosh]

23 minutes ago, S8TY said:

its not a gesture he's left us in the poo after causing the problem...we were better off with the previous owners!

If you're going to forget all the play-off matches, going to Wembley, breaking the transfer record to bring in Vydra, some wonderful loans and players singed, a youth system bearing fruit and sacking managers because so many fans here said so. Then forget those times, his fortune thrown at this club to chase that dream. But be happy with any new owner and any lack of ambition that may likely follow.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

15 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

If you're going to forget all the play-off matches, going to Wembley, breaking the transfer record to bring in Vydra, some wonderful loans and players singed, a youth system bearing fruit and sacking managers because so many fans here said so. Then forget those times, his fortune thrown at this club to chase that dream. But be happy with any new owner and any lack of ambition that may likely follow.

People don’t want the existence of a club gambled to chase a dream. It’s crazy. The academy is doing well and Mel Morris deserves praise for his investment there but quadrupling the wage bill etc? Fine if meeting FFP, not needing loopholes and willing to keep funding the club but he’s left the club on the edge of existence. Why hasn’t anyone bought the club yet? It’s because of the financial mess left by Mel Morris. There is a chance Derby will be liquidated- realistic not negative, and this is down to the business done by Morris. I honestly thought the quotes of 37k a week for Anya etc were all made up. I honestly didn’t expect foolishness to offer wages like that but here we are. The fans are happy when there are new signings etc but they don’t know the accounts etc. We assume everything is in order and a Derby fan won’t put the club into administration. Maybe he has lost his fortune now? Who knows. Doesn’t excuse the behaviour of others like Gibson / EFL. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by TheresOnlyWanChope

[RAM1966]

14 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

If you're going to forget all the play-off matches, going to Wembley, breaking the transfer record to bring in Vydra, some wonderful loans and players singed, a youth system bearing fruit and sacking managers because so many fans here said so. Then forget those times, his fortune thrown at this club to chase that dream. But be happy with any new owner and any lack of ambition that may likely follow.

The club is weeks away from possible extintion and your defending the man who has been reckless?

We've paid too much for players, Mel should of given the managers the brief, a mixture of experience while blooding the youth talent.

Tell me, would you wife be annoyed if your continually splashed out on stuff you couldn't really afford, which ultimately led to you losing your home?  I suspect she would and it could mean a marriage break up, akin to liquidation when you think about it!

[ram59]

10 minutes ago, RAM1966 said:

The club is weeks away from possible extintion and your defending the man who has been reckless?

We've paid too much for players, Mel should of given the managers the brief, a mixture of experience while blooding the youth talent.

Tell me, would you wife be annoyed if your continually splashed out on stuff you couldn't really afford, which ultimately led to you losing your home?  I suspect she would and it could mean a marriage break up, akin to liquidation when you think about it!

But then MM would argue that he could afford it, until Covid happened which you couldn't foresee. Without covid, we would certainly be heavily in debt, but unlikely to be in administration and therefor would be 12 points better off and possibly not under such a strict player embargo. That £20+M hit from Covid would throw anyones business plan into question. Other clubs with smaller crowds and who are not sailing so close to the wind  or have owners with deeper pockets are managing to ride it out. The timing of Covid is also an issue, a couple of years earlier and Derby's finances would probably been strong enough to survive it.

[RammingStone66]

46 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

If you're going to forget all the play-off matches, going to Wembley, breaking the transfer record to bring in Vydra, some wonderful loans and players singed, a youth system bearing fruit and sacking managers because so many fans here said so. Then forget those times, his fortune thrown at this club to chase that dream. But be happy with any new owner and any lack of ambition that may likely follow.

No much point in the youth system bearing fruit when at this rate we will have lost just about every decent player in the system to other teams or to not being able to actually sign them to contracts.

What a brilliant tactic by Mel, sink loads into the academy and when it actually produces put us in admin forcing the best players to be sold for peanuts or leave because we can't sign them ?. Also the expense of the academy is probably hurting us financially at the moment.

I mean thank god there were so many gems in the academy to help this season but I'm worried what will be left of it by the time this is over and I'd be surprised if any new owner would want to fund it as well as Mel did.

But I'm not sure how Mel spending lots of money absolves anything he did in this situation. 

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, RammingStone66 said:

No much point in the youth system bearing fruit when at this rate we will have lost just about every decent player in the system to other teams or to not being able to actually sign them to contracts.

 

Cashins performances have been noted i'll bet, This boy is a star in the making and could leave for nowt ?

[Archied]

I was one who backed/ trusted Morris for a long time so probably one of those being criticised by earlier post but here’s the rub , in my eyes we had a very astute business man at the helm who had made a not so small fortune before buying us , he claimed and appeared to be a true derby fan who saw his role as custodian of the club rather than owner , he constantly told everyone when asked that derby were very much ffp compliant and he was pouring his own money in to build a sustainable premiership club on the lines of a Southampton,

would I have applauded the big spend if I had the slightest idea where this was going and what the man’s actions would eventually be ? 
would I hell 

like a lot of derby fans I / we trusted and were taken in by a so called one of our own who turned out to be someone who took a gamble when we were on the verge of promotion and carried on the gamble until we were/ are almost out of existence , the damage that will do to ordinary people , the city, the county is unforgivable ??‍♂️

[SecretDave]

3 minutes ago, Archied said:

I was one who backed/ trusted Morris for a long time so probably one of those being criticised by earlier post but here’s the rub , in my eyes we had a very astute business man at the helm who had made a not so small fortune before buying us , he claimed and appeared to be a true derby fan who saw his role as custodian of the club rather than owner , he constantly told everyone when asked that derby were very much ffp compliant and he was pouring his own money in to build a sustainable premiership club on the lines of a Southampton,

would I have applauded the big spend if I had the slightest idea where this was going and what the man’s actions would eventually be ? 
would I hell 

like a lot of derby fans I / we trusted and were taken in by a so called one of our own who turned out to be someone who took a gamble when we were on the verge of promotion and carried on the gamble until we were/ are almost out of existence , the damage that will do to ordinary people , the city, the county is unforgivable ??‍♂️

Totally agree with this. The only thing that Morris got right during his tenure was the academy in my opinion.

[Macintosh]

1 hour ago, RAM1966 said:

The club is weeks away from possible extintion and your defending the man who has been reckless?

We've paid too much for players, Mel should of given the managers the brief, a mixture of experience while blooding the youth talent.

Tell me, would you wife be annoyed if your continually splashed out on stuff you couldn't really afford, which ultimately led to you losing your home?  I suspect she would and it could mean a marriage break up, akin to liquidation when you think about it!

Defending? Just giving a less simplistic summing up of his time at the helm that I continue to read from many. Similar with wives, not every marriage works out, some fail, but there are great memories that can go along with those times. Maxwell's time here and Lionel Pickering's jolly. All are failed marriages in hindsight, but I loved being a Rams fan back then. It's not as if Morris didn't give notice, the club was for sale for two seasons before the plug had to be pulled, the set budget was considerably exceeded and he was chucking in £3m every month that these administrators will surely appreciate how hard that is to continue doing, even if fans don't.

[DCFC27]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

But then MM would argue that he could afford it, until Covid happened which you couldn't foresee. Without covid, we would certainly be heavily in debt, but unlikely to be in administration and therefor would be 12 points better off and possibly not under such a strict player embargo. That £20+M hit from Covid would throw anyones business plan into question. Other clubs with smaller crowds and who are not sailing so close to the wind  or have owners with deeper pockets are managing to ride it out. The timing of Covid is also an issue, a couple of years earlier and Derby's finances would probably been strong enough to survive it.

I think also at the start of this season the attendances were so low due to gov restrictions and murmuring over another lockdown etc. He probably thought no one he’d have an empty ground again or at least thought the attendances would be rubbish all season. 
It would have been a bold move but if he had said “look I’m struggling to afford this now, please buy a tickets otherwise I might have to put in admin” I wonder the reaction from the fans. 
I think as a group log fans we have been terrific 

[Tyler Durden]

6 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Honestly?

If I were Mike Ashley, I`d be looking around what other clubs I could spend my money on and develop right now.

It appears Kirchner is paying around £40m for Preston, a club with a stadium and squad. Maybe not as much potential as DCFC in terms of fan base etc, but still a famous old club, with great history and currently competing at the right end of the Championship.

If as it seems c£50m is required just to take the Club out of administration, is it a good deal in comparison?

Has MM taken the club too far into a black hole?

I dunno, but trying to be logical about it doesn`t make for a good nights sleep.

Link to an article stating Kirchner is going to buy Preston for £40 million please 

[Grumpy Git]

MM has acted like the lowest of the low. If he really cared about DCFC (and he's as loaded as he makes out), he wouldn't have put it into administration, end of story. If he never had the cash to match his spending, then he's nothing better than a Derbyshire Del Boy anyway.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Grumpy Git

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Even more fundamentally, throwing in the stadium for free so the buyers can use that money towards the purchase misses one point: the buyer has a choice - pay the money and save a 15 point deduction, or not spend that money and take the penalty.

Even with a thrown in stadium, the option to save that money and just accept a big penalty next season is there. I don't see Mel offering the stadium for nowt, and if he did it wouldn't guarantee anything.

If a prospective buyer doesn't offer enough to avoid a 15 point deduction, they cease to be a prospective buyer, as the Binnies have found out. 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

If a prospective buyer doesn't offer enough to avoid a 15 point deduction, they cease to be a prospective buyer, as the Binnies have found out. 

I'm not sure that's a definite. If the best offer we get is only enough to warrant a deduction, I think the administrators have a duty to accept it. The only reason I can see they've thrown out the Binnies' offer is they know there's a better one coming.