Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Eatonram]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Difference is most didn’t have a business plan based around a guaranteed £20m revenue from having spectators in the ground. And those that did were subsidised by parachute payments, or got promoted. 

And/or got the EFL loan. 

[Indy]

8 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

And/or got the EFL loan. 

I wasn’t going to mention the loan cos you get people saying “we broke the rules so weren’t eligible” ignoring the fact that when the EFL drew up the eligibility criteria they included a clause that they knew full well would rule DCFC out. 

[PistoldPete]

48 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Hmmm, every other club in the league also went through the pandemic. Difference is they hadn't gambled or tried to twist the rules.

 

Actually lots of clubs have twisted the rules and indeed some unlike Derby have broken them. 
 

and also actually not every other club made it through the pandemic, Wigan has .

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

Hmmm, every other club in the league also went through the pandemic. Difference is they hadn't gambled or tried to twist the rules.

Is that the only difference?

So did every other club lose £20m?

And what about every other club receiving an £8m loan from the EFL?

I'm not saying MM is blameless here, he is the major factor behind our financial position BUT to say he is the only factor is short sighted and quite frankly naive.

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

From memory, FRS was only implemented in 2015, so I would imagine the new rules were discussed with the auditors at this point. 

Sorry mine was a tax person doing a bad auditor joke. Its as fun as we get

[Wolfie20]

11 hours ago, Yani P said:

Baby Joshua born just over an hour ago..Nice and healthy and the wife is fine too..couldn't be there as have 2 girls under 4 but they are excited..cheers for all the kind reactions..might find time for a beer ? 

Seen what you did there - pulled one back so now only 3-2 down v the girls. Going all out for the equaliser? ?

[Ram-Alf]

11 hours ago, Yani P said:

Baby Joshua born just over an hour ago..Nice and healthy and the wife is fine too..couldn't be there as have 2 girls under 4 but they are excited..cheers for all the kind reactions..might find time for a beer ? 

Well done to Mrs Yani, You might have put it there...but she did all the hard work ?, With 2 girls under 4 you know the score, But just to remind you incase you forgot...the 1st 2 years are the hardest, Teaching them to walk and talk, Then spend the rest of their lives to shut up and sit down.

Congratulations to ALL the Yani Family

Edited November 10, 2021 by Unlucky Alf

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

Difference is most didn’t have a business plan based around a guaranteed £20m revenue from having spectators in the ground. And those that did were subsidised by parachute payments, or got promoted. 

Yes. MM sort of explained it in his RD farewell. There are maybe 4 categories of clubs 

a the parachute corps

b those who had ambition, cheated and got promotion

c those who didn't show a lot of ambition but who preferred to keep an even keel

d clubs like us, ambitious spending, relatively high gate receipts, did not win promotion 

there are not many in d

 @BathRam72 makes a fair point, that MM’s management style contributed to us being in d for dunce   But he was also unlucky, and very few on here criticised the ambition when he was splashing the cash

 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes. MM sort of explained it in his RD farewell. There are maybe 4 categories of clubs 

a the parachute corps

b those who had ambition, cheated and got promotion

c those who didn't show a lot of ambition but who preferred to keep an even keel

d clubs like us, ambitious spending, relatively high gate receipts, did not win promotion 

there are not many in d

 @BathRam72 makes a fair point, that MM’s management style contributed to us being in d for dunce   But he was also unlucky, and very few on here criticised the ambition when he was splashing the cash

 

I really do not think you can criticise fans for not being more critical of Mel in those times. There were people asking questions at the time of 'Can we afford all of this?' to which Mel and the club repeatedly said yes and that were were within FFP. 

All of the fans, regardless of how we felt at the time have been duped by Mel. He took a club on a stable financial footing with an exciting team that had missed out on promotion by the narrowest of margins and turned it in to a financially ruined husk on the brink of being relegated to League One.

None of the fans should have to answer to any of that or feel any sort of guilt for their opinion at the time. Mel deceived us all, the buck stops with him.

Edited November 10, 2021 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[kevinhectoring]

19 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Well done to Mrs Yani, You might have put it there...

Mr Yani might object to the word ‘might ‘

oh, and I think that baby’s crapping

 

[Anag Ram]

11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Mr Yani might object to the word ‘might ‘

oh, and I think that baby’s crapping

 

Ah, so that's what that look means. Would explain Lawrence's poor performances. 

[jono]

3 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Hmmm, every other club in the league also went through the pandemic. Difference is they hadn't gambled or tried to twist the rules.

 

1) That we know of so far.

2) other clubs do not have our season ticket income and suffered a proportionally smaller funding gap

3) whilst many of the allegations were / are under investigation / appeal or pending modest fines/punishments  for none compliance,  we were placed under embargo which prevented us accessing emergency funding available to others. 

4) our club was up for sale. The previous owner found himself in a situation akin to an overseas holiday company…. No one was buying ….for obvious reasons 

[Tyler Durden]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes. MM sort of explained it in his RD farewell. There are maybe 4 categories of clubs 

a the parachute corps

b those who had ambition, cheated and got promotion

c those who didn't show a lot of ambition but who preferred to keep an even keel

d clubs like us, ambitious spending, relatively high gate receipts, did not win promotion 

there are not many in d

 @BathRam72 makes a fair point, that MM’s management style contributed to us being in d for dunce   But he was also unlucky, and very few on here criticised the ambition when he was splashing the cash

 

This has shades of the classic thread fans are to blame for the current predicament in which we were allegedly egging Mel on to spend more and more money that we couldn't afford to get us to the Premiership.

I didn't criticise the spending at the time as naively as a responsible owner I believed Mel was able to cover all of his  expenditure and had a Plan B if things deviated from track - Plan B seems to be chuck the club into administration. Dripping with financial acumen. 

[Ram-Alf]

40 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

This has shades of the classic thread fans are to blame for the current predicament in which we were allegedly egging Mel on to spend more and more money that we couldn't afford to get us to the Premiership.

 

This is fotball, It's what supporters do, We're not bothered where the loot comes from...well some are, As long as the player we sign can do what they were bought to do, As long as we get promoted, As long as we can stay in the Premier League then job done.

Newcastle/Burnley as an example, Newcastle were warned of the ownership who bought them, Were they bothered...i'd guess a huge majority wouldn't give a monkeys, Burnley taken over by a new owner who quickley borrowed the cash and put it down as a loan for Burnley...So Burnley bought Burnley.

Those who foresaw the calamaty spoke up, Posted, Complained...but still turned up in numbers, MM rolled the dice, Loved the popularity, Went to away games where he had his photo taken with adoring fans, Bought scarves for us, Coffee, Flags, I'm not going to fully blame him, He kept chucking money at something he thought would make him the most popular man in Derby...instead Children are told stories at bedtime about a man who would be King...but failed.

[kevinhectoring]

57 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

This has shades of the classic thread fans are to blame for the current predicament in which we were allegedly egging Mel on to spend more and more money that we couldn't afford to get us to the Premiership.

I didn't criticise the spending at the time as naively as a responsible owner I believed Mel was able to cover all of his  expenditure and had a Plan B if things deviated from track - Plan B seems to be chuck the club into administration. Dripping with financial acumen. 

3 things:

my post can’t possibly be read as blaming the fans. It says we should not now blame MM alone 

 if we had won the EFl case the club we would by now have been sold and we would not be in administration (I accept MM has been pretty incompetent in the sale process, initially because he was seduced by Samuelson). And criticise him for the EFL dispute all you want but MM was doubtless advised by his auditors that his squishy amortisation policy was legit

As for ‘no plan B’, well we’re probably now at plan D which involves the club operating at break even (disregarding covid). Not least because of MM’s much vaunted use of academy talent 

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

This has shades of the classic thread fans are to blame for the current predicament in which we were allegedly egging Mel on to spend more and more money that we couldn't afford to get us to the Premiership.

I didn't criticise the spending at the time as naively as a responsible owner I believed Mel was able to cover all of his  expenditure and had a Plan B if things deviated from track - Plan B seems to be chuck the club into administration. Dripping with financial acumen. 

Would be strange to imagine anyone seriously blaming fans for predicament. Fans don’t have access to accounts. Financial managers/ CEOs/ Chairmen have the responsibility to make sure the club is run well enough. 
The crazy money on wages was down to the management at the top- MM signed it all off I assume I guess Pearce is also to blame. Fans didn’t know who was on what wages. How could MM be £1mil a month down in 16/17 time. Financial mis management chasing premier league. 
 

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Would be strange to imagine anyone seriously blaming fans for predicament. Fans don’t have access to accounts. Financial managers/ CEOs/ Chairmen have the responsibility to make sure the club is run well enough. 
The crazy money on wages was down to the management at the top- MM signed it all off I assume I guess Pearce is also to blame. Fans didn’t know who was on what wages. How could MM be £1mil a month down in 16/17 time. Financial mis management chasing premier league. 
 

It’s the fans fault. For not turning up between March 2020 and September 2021.

Where was our 12th man when we needed him?

[ram59]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

This has shades of the classic thread fans are to blame for the current predicament in which we were allegedly egging Mel on to spend more and more money that we couldn't afford to get us to the Premiership.

I didn't criticise the spending at the time as naively as a responsible owner I believed Mel was able to cover all of his  expenditure and had a Plan B if things deviated from track - Plan B seems to be chuck the club into administration. Dripping with financial acumen. 

I don't think plan B was administration, I think that you could have gone through the entire alphabet 3 years ago and still wouldn't have envisaged a 'covid' situation. Even during WW2, clubs were having supporters coming through the turnstiles to watch guest players playing for your team.

Take away covid, what would our current position be? I doubt very much that we'd be in administration.  I suspect that the playing staff would have been cut back, but not to the extremes we have now.  I also suspect that we would be facing some sort of points penalty, but again not to the level that we currently fear. I don't believe that before covid, anyone could predict a situation where Derby could end up in this situation.

Under the previous owners and Nigel's management, we had had years of mediocre football and had shown no ambition, I think that the consensus of the support at the time was that we were prepared to take a gamble and without the benefit of hindsight, not even contemplating the actual cost of failure.

[Premier ram]

19 hours ago, Yani P said:

Baby Joshua born just over an hour ago..Nice and healthy and the wife is fine too..couldn't be there as have 2 girls under 4 but they are excited..cheers for all the kind reactions..might find time for a beer ? 

Congratulations mate

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

Under the previous owners and Nigel's management, we had had years of mediocre football and had shown no ambition, I think that the consensus of the support at the time was that we were prepared to take a gamble and without the benefit of hindsight, not even contemplating the actual cost of failure.

Am curious to know when the club gained a consensus from the fans that the club will start gambling with its future - was this through some sort of supporters poll?

I doubt very much as well that one of the voting options was to gamble on the clubs future through reckless spending either that the majority of supporters opted for.