Steve Gibson trying to liquidate Derby

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I still think this is being blown out of proportion by too much weight being given to Percy’s tweet/article. The statement by BAWT doesn’t seem half as sensational, and the key is getting a preferred bidder selected who is prepared to take the Middlesborough claim on (through the courts if necessary). They are owed nothing until a Court awards them such status. No Court is going to do that, and Gibson knows it. He will have no desire to waste money on Costs.

If (of course a big if) Nixon is right, the EFL won't agree to any business plan to let us out of administration without having agreed terms with Boro and Wycombe before this, apparently because that's what Boro and Wycombe want.

 

[Maharan]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m fairly confident that a lot of the story must be a load of rubbish. I really can’t see how any clubs feel they have the right to go crying to the EFL because we haven’t sold players to them at the price they have offered especially as the transfer window is still open.

I would imagine it it did happen that and the EFL took their complaints seriously and challenged the administrators they would probably either say “we think the player is worth more and we think we can get a better price which would be better for the creditors” or “we expect to have a preferred bidder, with a business plan and agreed terms with creditors shortly (not imminently ?) which means the club can hold onto that player”

If any clubs genuinely do think they have the right to force a sale, or the EFL feel they can interfere with the administrators doing job then the world really has gone mad.

Absolutely. I can't understand why people are so annoyed by this, and the pitchforks are out for the EFL again. Yes, I understand the EFL are not popular, but this is just nonsense. 

[Indy]

1 minute ago, Carl Sagan said:

If (of course a big if) Nixon is right, the EFL won't agree to any business plan to let us out of administration without having agreed terms with Boro and Wycombe before this, apparently because that's what Boro and Wycombe want.

 

And if this is true, that’s the whole point of their action. Why file an actual case that would require them to incur costs and recuse their EFL board involvement, when they can just conspire with the EFL to block a CVA until it’s sorted (a timescale entirely in boro’s control) and torpedo our transfer window, takeover, and avoiding relegation and gerrymander an extra 15 point deduction for us into the bargain? The whole thing stinks. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

10 hours ago, David said:

It's just reached the point of pure embarrassment, from Boro, Wycombe and the EFL.

All those rival fans that are finding joy in all this when they could easily be next, wake up.

The game is littered with utter BS, we tried to find a different way with amortisation to compete with those awarded millions for failure, which the EFL retrospectively on Gibson's request found us guilty. 

Naughty Derby, grow up.

Rules have been retrospectively added to cover the EFL arses. Google enhanced embargo, see what comes up, Derby County, there was never a enhanced embargo before all this, it's something you came up with as Mel Morris publicly challenged you.

Meanwhile we have state owned clubs when sponsorships for official hotels, soaps and rubber ducks for 10x what they could buy this club for in the Premier League.

Do you not even realise how anti competitive the league that's responsible for your revenue is, do you not realise that the very existence of the Championship relies on multi millionaires prepared to be losing upwards of half a million a month, it's not sustainable even by your own rules.

Derby County reject a bid for their player which could be derisory, yet the EFL are on our case, are we in the position now where we have to sell Jason Knight for a fiver to keep Rick Parry happy, if that's the case then just end the game now.

We lost Kaide Gordon to Liverpool for a bag of monster munch and Freddo over that deal you agreed with the PL, how is that looking after your member clubs when they have to gift wrap the young stars that have been educated both on an off the field to satisfy the greed of the top 6 in this country.

Explain the benefit of that deal to your member clubs, please explain as from the fans that love the game, all we see is our clubs being screwed over.

Out of 2 play off finals which we were beaten, we were beaten by clubs that would have failed EFL FFP, we took it on the chin yet here we are, one club using bookies odds to build a case and another that didn't even earn promotion on merit jeopardising the existence of this club.

Meanwhile the MSM are far more interested in the likes of Man United and Newcastle to even realise what is going on outside the gold pit. The game is dying whilst the "journalists" are far more interested in finding the next tweet to create a clickbait article than actually do their jobs.

Nobody wants to touch it, why? We have a Serbian tennis player refused entry to a country and tournament, everyone, every journalist in sport is weighing in as we're sat here in limbo over let's not forget, retrospective punishment.

The EFL signed off our accounts that we have now been punished for, let that sink in.

I'm sick of it, sick of the rival fans looking to take the piss without understanding the situation, sick of the incompetent governing bodies, sick of Gibson and that Wycombe numpty.

We've rolled over, accepted the retrospective punishment, saved the EFL embarrassment of explaining themselves in court, yet the EFL are too gutless to tell the curly haired one to shut up as they are in fear of landing themselves in court over the utter shambolic way they have ran this league.

Grow some balls Rick, accept some responsibility over how the investigations were handled and do the right thing, tell Gibson to F off, tell Wycombe to F off and learn from your mistakes.

I got a 30 day ban for calling Mel a buffoon on here when he was still the golden child and you just called the Wycombe chairman a numpty ?

Bloody good post though and echoes everything I'm thinking.

Not sure I am able to put my anger into words, if I tried I would just be smashing the keyboard to bits.

The way our club is being treated is similar to the Russia and Qatar world Cup bids, its so obvious, its staring everyone blatantly in the face, but everyone is so obsessed with what Chelsea and Britney are doing in Love Island they do nothing about it.

I know this will never happen, but Derby fans should rally other fans, because there will be other ones and start lobbying outside the EFL headquarters and get a bit of publicity. 

[Crewton]

20 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

Unlikely but if we have to pay £50m or anything like that, that will blow our next  P&S / FFP even further again

Even if it came to that, I doubt it would be classed as expenditure for the purposes of FFP, since it's not going towards transfer fees or players wages.

[Maharan]

1 minute ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I got a 30 day ban for calling Mel a buffoon on here when he was still the golden child and you just called the Wycombe chairman a numpty ?

Bloody good post though and echoes everything I'm thinking.

Not sure I am able to put my anger into words, if I tried I would just be smashing the keyboard to bits.

The way our club is being treated is similar to the Russia and Qatar world Cup bids, its so obvious, its staring everyone blatantly in the face, but everyone is so obsessed with what Chelsea and Britney are doing in Love Island they do nothing about it.

I know this will never happen, but Derby fans should rally other fans, because there will be other ones and start lobbying outside the EFL headquarters and get a bit of publicity. 

Love Island is on? Be right back...

[Tamworthram]

10 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

If (of course a big if) Nixon is right, the EFL won't agree to any business plan to let us out of administration without having agreed terms with Boro and Wycombe before this, apparently because that's what Boro and Wycombe want.

 

Excuse my ignorance but isn’t administration, and subsequent exiting of it, a legal process involving agreement between the administrator and the creditors? 
 

If a sufficient percentage of creditors vote in favour of the exit plan can the EFL block it and potentially force liquidation? Maybe they can but I wonder, if it did happen, if any creditors could have a legal case against the EFL.

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Excuse my ignorance but isn’t administration, and subsequent exiting of it, a legal process involving agreement between the administrator and the creditors? 
 

If a sufficient percentage of creditors vote in favour of the exit plan can the EFL block it and potentially force liquidation? Maybe they can but I wonder, if it did happen, if any creditors could have a legal case against the EFL.

The only thing the EFL can do is impose a further points deduction for not having agreement on the business plan - they cannot stop an insovant business being taken out of insovancy with the agreement of its creditors by new ownership.

The assumption is the further deduction threat is enough.

I suppose the league might have ultimate power to expel DCFC from the league, but that wouldn't stop an owner buying DCFC out of insolvency under a CVA (you might not want to if it's not in the league, but it's no legal barrier)

[i-Ram]

25 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

If (of course a big if) Nixon is right, the EFL won't agree to any business plan to let us out of administration without having agreed terms with Boro and Wycombe before this, apparently because that's what Boro and Wycombe want.

 

In my view, and obviously FWIW as I am no lawyer, if that is the case, the Administrators should flex some legal muscle under the provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 (IA 1986). It should approach the Courts to injunct the EFL from stymying it’s attempts to affect a sale to a Preferred Bidder and to therefore keep the Club (Company) trading as a going concern via a CVA which they clearly see as a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were put into liquidation.

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

In my view, and obviously FWIW as I am no lawyer, if that is the case, the Administrators should flex some legal muscle under the provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986 (IA 1986). It should approach the Courts to injunct the EFL from stymying it’s attempts to affect a sale to a Preferred Bidder and to therefore keep the Club (Company) trading as a going concern via a CVA which they clearly see as a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were put into liquidation.

No legal expert myself, but I like it.

Would be a good "go forth and multiply" to the clubs complaining we haven't sold players at cut price.

[G STAR RAM]

Sorry but that isnt correct.

The value of their leaseholdland abd buildings per their accounts is closer to £45m.

The reinstatement value is £86m but the depreciated value is the lower amount. 

[Sparkle]

4 hours ago, David said:

Last night's rant was alcohol fuelled public venting.

Absolutely no point in emailing them. They don't care. It's hard to believe they even care about the game at this point.

We need someone to have the money, time, drive to take them on through the courts. Apply the same pressure.

I don't want to see this settled out of court, even if no money changes hands, at this point we need to hear a judge throw it out their courtroom to deter others from trying this on in the future.

We need someone to look at this situation, tell the administrators not to worry about Boro or Wycombe, here's the money, hand over the keys.

This appears to be the only way out now, which is ridiculous given the nature of the case. 

If they somehow convinced a judge that us "cheating" cost them, the can of worms it would open is a game changer. 

Radio Derby need to invite Gibson on their show, it's ok getting the likes of Kieran Maguire on to talk finances, but let's hear the words fall directly out the man who's trying to liquidate this clubs mouth on how this case against us has been built, see if he's man enough to do that rather than indirect stories through the media.

He's not though, we all know that and I'm sure deep down he knows he has no case, it's just a stubbornness over a bitter dispute with our ex owner. Dog with a bone stuff. 

Let Radio Derby run a headline, Steve Gibson refuses to appear on their show, it's the BBC, might even make it on the main website.

Forget Wycombe in all this, they are clutching onto Gibson's coat tails, their case is that laughable it doesn't even merit any attention. 

Please forward to that nice Mr Ashley fella who wants us to buy things in his shops 

[Sparkle]

4 hours ago, AndyB said:

I don’t think we’ll go under. But I do think we will need to concede something else to the EFL in order to get a sale done. It seems the EFL will keep chipping away until it is certain that we can’t stay up. I suspect they are terrified of the prospect of us staying up given the pressure they are under from other EFL clubs to ensure we go down.

Sport stops being sport and business isn’t allowed to be business - That is what the EFL stands for.

[Sparkle]

4 hours ago, AndyB said:

Gibson and the EFL are in it together. Gibson sued the EFL first and the EFL said he could go after Derby once the EFL had made a punishment stick (the 9 point deduction). The EFL are not going to tell Gibson to drop his claim.

You do tend to think we have a case against the EFL if all the information was properly available 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We were forced into accepting a deal as not doing so would have blocked any takeover from happening until resolved. Odds on that taking more than the season to be concluded being pretty slim.

So the EFL can stop someone purchasing the club whilst the club is refusing to accept a 9 point penalty .  If that's the case their moronic procedural nonsense and blame culture is beyond redemption.

[24Charlie]

Are people just determined to go off on one regardless of what has been said from official channels.

No sooner have we had BAWT showing us the Admin position re- Wycombe and Boro that we have folk pedalling another Nixon tweet to get furious about.

Nixon has no credibility so why take anything he says seriously.

 

[Day]

1 hour ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I got a 30 day ban for calling Mel a buffoon on here when he was still the golden child and you just called the Wycombe chairman a numpty ?

Bloody good post though and echoes everything I'm thinking.

Not sure I am able to put my anger into words, if I tried I would just be smashing the keyboard to bits.

The way our club is being treated is similar to the Russia and Qatar world Cup bids, its so obvious, its staring everyone blatantly in the face, but everyone is so obsessed with what Chelsea and Britney are doing in Love Island they do nothing about it.

I know this will never happen, but Derby fans should rally other fans, because there will be other ones and start lobbying outside the EFL headquarters and get a bit of publicity. 

You would have one point already, a second point triggered the ban. And nothing in the forum rules says you can't call a Wycombe owner a numpty.

There is rules about personal insults towards people connected to Derby.

Havent just changed them either, been in place for years now, you would have clicked I agree to the rules as well ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

So the EFL can stop someone purchasing the club whilst the club is refusing to accept a 9 point penalty .  If that's the case their moronic procedural nonsense and blame culture is beyond redemption.

Well, no, just make it an unappealing prospect with the potential points deduction not resolved and an unknown risk to any buyer - the administrators thought they wouldn't get a credible bid to buy the club without the deductions resolved.

As with a lot of these things, they don't stop someone buying the business, but they do make it unattractive to buyers.

I think fit and proper owners test is the only actual power they have to stop a sale, even then it doesn't hypothetically stop someone buying it, but they'd be thrown out of the league (e.g. shady Alonso gives Mel the actual money, Mel signs over DCFC, the league expel DCFC as Alonso is not a fit and proper owner, Alonso owns Derby county, a football club that isn't a member of a league)

[Premier ram]

11 hours ago, David said:

It's just reached the point of pure embarrassment, from Boro, Wycombe and the EFL.

All those rival fans that are finding joy in all this when they could easily be next, wake up.

The game is littered with utter BS, we tried to find a different way with amortisation to compete with those awarded millions for failure, which the EFL retrospectively on Gibson's request found us guilty. 

Naughty Derby, grow up.

Rules have been retrospectively added to cover the EFL arses. Google enhanced embargo, see what comes up, Derby County, there was never a enhanced embargo before all this, it's something you came up with as Mel Morris publicly challenged you.

Meanwhile we have state owned clubs when sponsorships for official hotels, soaps and rubber ducks for 10x what they could buy this club for in the Premier League.

Do you not even realise how anti competitive the league that's responsible for your revenue is, do you not realise that the very existence of the Championship relies on multi millionaires prepared to be losing upwards of half a million a month, it's not sustainable even by your own rules.

Derby County reject a bid for their player which could be derisory, yet the EFL are on our case, are we in the position now where we have to sell Jason Knight for a fiver to keep Rick Parry happy, if that's the case then just end the game now.

We lost Kaide Gordon to Liverpool for a bag of monster munch and Freddo over that deal you agreed with the PL, how is that looking after your member clubs when they have to gift wrap the young stars that have been educated both on an off the field to satisfy the greed of the top 6 in this country.

Explain the benefit of that deal to your member clubs, please explain as from the fans that love the game, all we see is our clubs being screwed over.

Out of 2 play off finals which we were beaten, we were beaten by clubs that would have failed EFL FFP, we took it on the chin yet here we are, one club using bookies odds to build a case and another that didn't even earn promotion on merit jeopardising the existence of this club.

Meanwhile the MSM are far more interested in the likes of Man United and Newcastle to even realise what is going on outside the gold pit. The game is dying whilst the "journalists" are far more interested in finding the next tweet to create a clickbait article than actually do their jobs.

Nobody wants to touch it, why? We have a Serbian tennis player refused entry to a country and tournament, everyone, every journalist in sport is weighing in as we're sat here in limbo over let's not forget, retrospective punishment.

The EFL signed off our accounts that we have now been punished for, let that sink in.

I'm sick of it, sick of the rival fans looking to take the piss without understanding the situation, sick of the incompetent governing bodies, sick of Gibson and that Wycombe numpty.

We've rolled over, accepted the retrospective punishment, saved the EFL embarrassment of explaining themselves in court, yet the EFL are too gutless to tell the curly haired one to shut up as they are in fear of landing themselves in court over the utter shambolic way they have ran this league.

Grow some balls Rick, accept some responsibility over how the investigations were handled and do the right thing, tell Gibson to F off, tell Wycombe to F off and learn from your mistakes.

Brilliant post mate , agree with everything , duck off Gibson , who the duck are Wycombe and duck the EFL

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

42 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Well, no, just make it an unappealing prospect with the potential points deduction not resolved and an unknown risk to any buyer - the administrators thought they wouldn't get a credible bid to buy the club without the deductions resolved.

As with a lot of these things, they don't stop someone buying the business, but they do make it unattractive to buyers.

I think fit and proper owners test is the only actual power they have to stop a sale, even then it doesn't hypothetically stop someone buying it, but they'd be thrown out of the league (e.g. shady Alonso gives Mel the actual money, Mel signs over DCFC, the league expel DCFC as Alonso is not a fit and proper owner, Alonso owns Derby county, a football club that isn't a member of a league)

We would have been better fighting the 9 points.  With the -12 another potential 9 wouldn't have put of an investor and we have a far bigger issue now opening the backdoor for Gibson.  May be interesting to know if the administrators were aware of said discussions between Gibson and the Gambino family (efl) before accepting this deduction.  If not, there may be the possibility of going back to it.  No one likes going over old ground but appears it may be the only option.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by angieram
Remove personal insults