Louie Sibley

[Crewton]

The hyperbole isn't helping your argument. 10x better? Why stop there? Why not 100x better? ? 

Just now, we've got a matchday squad giving everything for the cause. We've got players disappointed at not starting who, nonetheless, are coming on and making a positive difference. That's exactly what Sibley needs to do next time he gets a chance. Rooney can't afford to risk someone not doing the job required of him - we've seen the outcome when that happens. Sibbo needs to convince him that he'll deliver, then he'll get his chance. 

I hope he's not surrounded by people telling him he's brilliant already and being badly treated, because players in that position often end up being wasted talents, and I'd hate to see that happen to one of our home-grown prodigies. 

 

[Jubbs]

48 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It hasn't prevented Ebosele standing out, or Knight becoming vital to the way we play. 

Ebosele hasn't played out of position he's always been an attacking full back/winger.

Knight is an incredibly versatile player anyway and why he's so good, harsh to compare (plus he actually starts games).

[ilkleyram]

11 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

That's always a bit of a weak one for me.  Sibley certainly gave away free kicks in dangerous positions but that didn't stop Byrne getting picked regularly at the same time giving away as many, if not more.  Joswiak looked like he was planning on basing his career at fouling fullbacks in promising positions last season . Forsyth almost relegated us on his own last game of the season but still gets picked.  I don't think Sibleys face fits with Rooney, it happens but he will do well elsewhere given a run of 20 games going the right way -in the attacking third as a midfielder or 10 without the defensive shackles- probably go somewhere and have a similar goal output to Ramage, his trajectory is almost identical.  He could certainly score 10 goals for us that were missing.

If you mean Craig Ramage I hope to God that Louie has a greater amount of ambition than matching his output - the guy was a legend in his own head; disappeared whenever the going got tough and lived off one goal against the red dogs. In fairness to Louie there may be weaknesses in his game but he's never hidden or shirked a battle.

Ramage played 40 odd games for us over many more seasons than Louie has been around and scored 4 goals.  Louie's already played 50 or so games in three seasons and scored about 7, three of those in one match.  He needs to force himself back into favour (if he really is out of favour, which I doubt)

[nottingram]

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The hyperbole isn't helping your argument. 10x better? Why stop there? Why not 100x better? ? 

Just now, we've got a matchday squad giving everything for the cause. We've got players disappointed at not starting who, nonetheless, are coming on and making a positive difference. That's exactly what Sibley needs to do next time he gets a chance. Rooney can't afford to risk someone not doing the job required of him - we've seen the outcome when that happens. Sibbo needs to convince him that he'll deliver, then he'll get his chance. 

I hope he's not surrounded by people telling him he's brilliant already and being badly treated, because players in that position often end up being wasted talents, and I'd hate to see that happen to one of our home-grown prodigies. 

 

Fine then, 1000x better! The point being he is too good for that level so the general idea of putting him there to earn a spot in the first team (presumably that is why) is pointless because human nature is such that he will coast due to it being easy for him. I didn’t watch their game v Norwich but he scored a hat trick and yet according to reports on here, didn’t play well, which I guess sums it up.

I have generally been very happy with Rooney’s changes over the last month or so, and we’ve been winning games, like you say, with the subs making a difference. I am not sure though, how Sibley can have the chance to do that when he is not making the bench, or when he does, inferior players are coming on over him seemingly to make a point.

My hope really is just that he isn’t treated differently, and allowed less leeway for poor performances. Like I said, his last meaningful appearance for the first team was the Blackburn game - why was that seemingly the game where he lost trust given it was just a crap team performance (in fairness, versus what is clearly a very good side) where we only looked like doing anything once Curtis Davies went up front. Sibley was often singled out by Rooney last season too.

[Gerry Daly]

Rooney understands football 100 times better than any of us and has 1000 times more exposure to Sibley. Those who think that Rooney is wrong are entitled to their opinions but their opinions aren't worth much. Rooney has given chances to Bird, Knight, Plange, Stretton, Watson, Ebosele, Buchanan, McDonald, Thompson, Hutchinson, Williams AND Sibley. All have taken their chances to a greater or lesser extent. If Sibley is good enough and can stop getting booked and sent off he will force his way into the side simple as that   

[Crewton]

13 minutes ago, nottingram said:

The point being he is too good for that level

He's playing in the top division of PL2. There are some players with other teams who are already worth more than Sibley will ever be worth, who are also having to play at that level to demonstrate they are good enough to make their club's first team squad. He's not "too good for that level" - he's only 20 FFS and, despite what some fans may think, he's no Jude Bellingham and I'd question whether he's even a Kaide Gordon - we'll see - BUT he is good enough to be playing Championship football right now if he proves to his manager that he's earned it. What Rooney expects from players - rightly or wrongly - isn't a secret. It's why Holmes and Whitakker were shown the door and why Waggy and others have felt his annoyance when their training attitudes have slipped. Any player should be fully aware by now what is required of them. 

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

Hard to stand out when he's playing out of position and making sub appearances. Look what happens when he plays in his correct position for the U23's...

I don't think it is Jubbs. Quality always shows.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, nottingram said:

I know we don’t see what goes on in training, and that is an important point to make, but he is not getting any game time to make an impression. His last appearance was for 3 minutes away at Millwall, two months ago. He hasn’t had meaningful minutes since the Blackburn game at home. He played poorly, yes, but so did everyone. Since then we have seen Aghatise come on as a sub over him (I believe to try and make a point) and Sam Baldock starting over him in the attacking midfield trio. I refuse to believe this is on any sort of on pitch merit because a) Baldock is crap, b) you are probably going to have to sub him after 25 minutes anyway and c) he is out of contract in two weeks. I can understand him not getting in while we’re playing well and scoring a few goals, before this month we have been very very average with very little to lose.

It is a waste of time letting him play in the U23’s where he can half arse it and still be the best player on the pitch by a mile. Nobody is learning anything from it. It isn’t going to help him improve, it isn’t going to improve his work ethic and it isn’t going to make Rooney pick him for the first team.

In my opinion he is our best player technically. Rooney has spoken lots about man management, surely part of that is finding a way to unlock that? I don’t think it’s going to be by alienating him.

I am pretty confident in saying if we sold him, we would hugely regret it, unless it is to literally keep the club in existence.

I respect your view nottingram but the bit in bold is where we differ..........I don't think he's anywhere near our best technical player. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

If you mean Craig Ramage I hope to God that Louie has a greater amount of ambition than matching his output - the guy was a legend in his own head; disappeared whenever the going got tough and lived off one goal against the red dogs. In fairness to Louie there may be weaknesses in his game but he's never hidden or shirked a battle.

Ramage played 40 odd games for us over many more seasons than Louie has been around and scored 4 goals.  Louie's already played 50 or so games in three seasons and scored about 7, three of those in one match.  He needs to force himself back into favour (if he really is out of favour, which I doubt)

I'm referring to goal output.  Sibley has 6 in 55.  Like Ramage 4 in 42 -that stats deceiving as many appearances were 15 -20 minutes here and there played the correct way like Ramage was at Watford, he has the goals in his game to make a big difference - 1 in 3.  Whats the chances Sibley gets a couple of games , misses tackles as he's scared of making errors, scuffs shots etc and isn't seen again for 6 weeks..  Like deja vu to me but all opinions.

[Wolfie20]

There's no doubt that Sibley has talent, he's already shown that in his first few matches but all this 'play him in his best position' at this stage in his career is wrong. It's fair to say that most fans are probably of the opinion that Knight would be better suited to more of a central role rather than being played out wide but in nearly every game he's played he invariably makes a contribution - when did Sibley last contribute to the team performance. 

It would be enlightening to know the opinions of Justin Walker and Darren Wassall on Louie's current situation - I would expect Rooney to take notice of how they see all our young players developing.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

4 hours ago, Gerry Daly said:

Rooney understands football 100 times better than any of us and has 1000 times more exposure to Sibley. Those who think that Rooney is wrong are entitled to their opinions but their opinions aren't worth much. Rooney has given chances to Bird, Knight, Plange, Stretton, Watson, Ebosele, Buchanan, McDonald, Thompson, Hutchinson, Williams AND Sibley. All have taken their chances to a greater or lesser extent. If Sibley is good enough and can stop getting booked and sent off he will force his way into the side simple as that   

How many times has he been sent off???

[Orphanram]

This is pure conjecture but Wayne might judge players with natural ability more harshly than others. He was prodigiously talented but if you ever read united fans comments about Rooney nearly everyone to a man/woman rates him as he of their favourite ever players due to his work rate and commitment. It could rankle with him if he sees more naturally gifted players not just working hard but being the hardest working players in training/games. One thing I notice with Sibley is that until he has the ball his body language is quite laconic, almost the exact opposite of Knight who always appears more alert and on his toes as it were. I love players like Louie and would love to see him make it here but this is how it goes with some players. 

[RoyMac5]

7 hours ago, Orphanram said:

One thing I notice with Sibley is that until he has the ball his body language is quite laconic, almost the exact opposite of Knight who always appears more alert and on his toes as it were. I love players like Louie and would love to see him make it here but this is how it goes with some players. 

Until the last U23 game he played in he has looked utterly ordinary.

In that last game he wasted more chances than he scored - maybe, just maybe he has some learning to do?

[jimbobram]

I was a big fan of Sibs when he first came on  the scene and was frustrated initially when Rooney wouldn't select him. However, since Sibs made his debut, we have seen other youngsters come in and make an  impact AND IMPROVE. Sibley has not.

I trust Rooney with the youngster's. He has shown that if you are good enough you will play. If Rooney doesn't think Sibley is showing enough then I am happy with him leaving. Some players need to leave in order to focus and improve, and unfortunately I think Sibley is one of them. 

[Jimbo Ram]

18 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Until the last U23 game he played in he has looked utterly ordinary.

In that last game he wasted more chances than he scored - maybe, just maybe he has some learning to do?

Looked awful in the odd 10 mins when he has played….pity Wazza doesn’t persist and give some opportunities for Sibbo like he does Raval……

[Jram]

Not in the squad today. Perhaps he is off 

[Keepyuppy]

I think Sibley is pretty much where Bird was 2+ years ago and he needs to take on board the advice he’s been, work on it, buckle down and come up with the goods he’s been told to concentrate on. That’s exactly what Bird did and has come in loads and has become a nailed on starter. 
Sibley needs to get his head down and work harder and prove to the manager and himself that he should be in the first team.
He’ll either buckle down and become the player we all think he can be, or he’ll move on and try elsewhere - it’s up to Sibley himself really ? 

[blue texel ram]

12 minutes ago, Jram said:

Not in the squad today. Perhaps he is off 

injured according to Rooney in presser after game 

[Jram]

34 minutes ago, blue texel ram said:

injured according to Rooney in presser after game 

Ah right, cheers 

[Carl Sagan]

According to this https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/millwall-see-initial-bids-rejected-for-derbys-louie-sibley-and-fortuna-sittards-zian-flemming/ Millwall made the opening bid.

I'd expect the lad to end up at a decent Premier League team, but have to bide his time on the bench for a little while. Wolves, Villa or Leeds if they think they can pick him up cheaply. Us announcing there was a bid is specifically to try to create an auction. It's clear Rooney won't play him.