Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[CornwallRam]

11 minutes ago, Carnero said:

We are selling tickets now though, you're completely ignoring the fact that we do have income to deduct from your £3m.

I'm not ignoring anything. The problem is that we have, if the article is correct, to find over £2.5m per month to keep going until January. We do have some income, but will it be enough? 

I still think the most likely scenario is that MSD will take full control, stabilise everything, and then sell us to a North American bidder in the coming months.

My point is that if we go down the 'normal' administration route, there is a frighteningly realistic possibility of DCFC being finished.

[Carnero]

1 minute ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm not ignoring anything. The problem is that we have, if the article is correct, to find over £2.5m per month to keep going until January. We do have some income, but will it be enough? 

I still think the most likely scenario is that MSD will take full control, stabilise everything, and then sell us to a North American bidder in the coming months.

My point is that if we go down the 'normal' administration route, there is a frighteningly realistic possibility of DCFC being finished.

If the article were correct then Morris would have said he was writing out cheques for £2.5m per month not £1m to £1.5m. It would have suited his attempted justification for pulling out.

[Woodley Ram]

13 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Usually the PFA will step in and help pay wages I think, also the Administrators, are not the clubs friends they are the equivalent of jackals who live off the corpses of companies that are ill,  "there is a place for them but it has not been dug yet"

agree with all of that and I like the description of the administrators 

[NottsRam77]

8 hours ago, Ruud Aralliss said:

A great post, I love the sentiment. I feel the same.

I initiated my son into the fold when he was about 5 or 6.  About the time he started to actually wanted to kick a ball about. 
He was quite lucky at as the first few seasons he saw some great football at PP.    Highs and lows followed, Wembley(s) or being at Old Trafford for the cup win etc. 
But for me it’s been about spending time with him, and share the highs and lows.  Especially now he’s old enough to go with his mates and bar a couple  away matches he still goes with me.

I would lie down and rest a happy man if he thought the same way as you do in your second paragraph.  I hope he will look back and remember those times and not these.  Having said that the future for him as a Derby fan might be full of promise and European domination, who knows? As Jimmy quite rightly said 

It’s a funny old game 

 

Truly Lovely response mate … thankyou

 

[Crewton]

I'm finding it hard to believe that the club's payroll is "still" £30m p.a, given that the most expensive element, the first team squad has 23 players, and half of those are on £4,500 per week or less. 

The Athletic are usually pretty reliable, but that figure doesn't support the club's claim of "a viable business model" emerging. 

If it's true, I'd love to know how it's made up, but it's going to be carnage when an Administrator is appointed. 

[NottsRam77]

28 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Great post, I feel the same (but different) I don’t think I could go watch another team play/feel the same way about them. DCFC is my team and always will be, since the Cox days I’ve been going with my old man and mates. so it’s not just about the football is everything, it’s the pubs, the walks to the ground , the people you meet who are all there for one thing the love of DCFC. You just can’t start that emotional connection again.

Then there is the other bit, modern football. Sky TV changing the schedule at the drop of a hat, crappy kick off times, transfer deadline day, ridiculous transfer fees and wages, the big 6 just wanting to leave without any punishment, the gap getting bigger between the prem teams and everyone else, unfair competition. Footballs just changed to the point if we went bust I’m not so sure I’d bother with the game anymore.

Last bit of a rant on this, the players need to take a long hard look at themselves for situations like we are in, football is not sustainable, players wages and agents fees are the crux of this. Where does all that Sky cash go? Into their pockets. When I heard Gary Neville the other day about us, my 1st thought was hypocrite the money he took out of the game and still does working for the one company that has killed our game. Mels to blame but the greedy players and their agents have killed this club and we won’t be the last until the lunacy is reset. 

Agree entirely

[Woodley Ram]

I think at the moment it would be worth appealing any points deductions, it might delay the inevitable but also it might bring the EFL to the table and reduce them.

I think Mel said we were £4m over FFP. Birmingham were £13m over and received 7 points I think (5 deducted), we could use that as part of the appeal for less points.

Also use Covid as a reason for administration as the loss of £20m meant we couldnt service our debt.

Mind you, if we didnt have a couple of years of mad spending we would not be in this position.  I dont dislike Mel, his heart was in the right place and they do say supporters shouldnt own the club. However he cannot take aim at what other clubs have or dont have, this is about DCFC and what he did and didnt do. I think Stephen Pearce is getting away lightly here, as an accountant he should have been the voice of reason. In the end we are were we are due to them.

 

[Woodley Ram]

7 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I'm finding it hard to believe that the club's payroll is "still" £30m p.a, given that the most expensive element, the first team squad has 23 players, and half of those are on £4,500 per week or less. 

The Athletic are usually pretty reliable, but that figure doesn't support the club's claim of "a viable business model" emerging. 

If it's true, I'd love to know how it's made up, but it's going to be carnage when an Administrator is appointed. 

its a lot less than that, 23 players on £4,500 is about  £7m, some like Lawrence are on a lot more and then you have Rooney etc. I would say well under £20m, perhaps as low as £15m 

[RedSox]

8 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Agree entirely

I'll second that.  It will inevitably drive more ordinary people away from going to the top flight games in favour of a more honest, connected game where there are no mercenary prima-donnas hoovering up our hard-earned money at an ever-increasing rate.  It has to be addressed at some point, surely!  Wouldn't it be good to look back and say that what happened to such a high profile club as us sent bow waves through the football hierarchy and acted as a catalyst for change (so long as we come out the other end in tact)? 

Edited September 21, 2021 by RedSox
fat fingers!

[Crewton]

10 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

its a lot less than that, 23 players on £4,500 is about  £7m, some like Lawrence are on a lot more and then you have Rooney etc. I would say well under £20m, perhaps as low as £15m 

That's what I thought. Even though there are allot of coaches and support staff, there can't be many on 6-figure salaries either. 

[Crewton]

Mind you, I forgot to include Ravanelli in my calculations... 

[Spanish]

23 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

I think at the moment it would be worth appealing any points deductions, it might delay the inevitable but also it might bring the EFL to the table and reduce them.

I think Mel said we were £4m over FFP. Birmingham were £13m over and received 7 points I think (5 deducted), we could use that as part of the appeal for less points.

Also use Covid as a reason for administration as the loss of £20m meant we couldnt service our debt.

Mind you, if we didnt have a couple of years of mad spending we would not be in this position.  I dont dislike Mel, his heart was in the right place and they do say supporters shouldnt own the club. However he cannot take aim at what other clubs have or dont have, this is about DCFC and what he did and didnt do. I think Stephen Pearce is getting away lightly here, as an accountant he should have been the voice of reason. In the end we are were we are due to them.

 

he quoted it as a single year, not sure whether we can read into that anything at all

[RoyMac5]

Edit: need to get up earlier! ?

Edited September 21, 2021 by RoyMac5

[CornwallRam]

5 minutes ago, Crewton said:

That's what I thought. Even though there are allot of coaches and support staff, there can't be many on 6-figure salaries either. 

It's a really good point.

I just did a quick 'back of an envelope' calculation using standard squad players like Fozzy and Shinnie on £15k, the 'embargo' boys on £5k, youngsters such as Sibley on £10k, Beilik and Lawrence on £30k, Jozwiak on £20k and the break through kids such as Festy on £2k. That comes out at just over £1m per month.

If the Athletic article is correct and allowing £500k for the rest of the payroll - manager, coaches and staff etc, it looks like my wages estimates for our non-embargo players are less than half of the reality. 

That just might be the answer as to why we're in this mess.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, CornwallRam said:

It's a really good point.

I just did a quick 'back of an envelope' calculation using standard squad players like Fozzy and Shinnie on £15k, the 'embargo' boys on £5k, youngsters such as Sibley on £10k, Beilik and Lawrence on £30k, Jozwiak on £20k and the break through kids such as Festy on £2k. That comes out at just over £1m per month.

If the Athletic article is correct and allowing £500k for the rest of the payroll - manager, coaches and staff etc, it looks like my wages estimates for our non-embargo players are less than half of the reality. 

That just might be the answer as to why we're in this mess.

Do you think they've done any *real* research? They're probably using quoted figures or 2018 accounts!

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

15 hours ago, Spanish said:

Based on out of date accounts, I think it maybe a lot less with the subsequent money injected by Mel recognised as loan repayments, we will see 

?

202’s last filed accounts were June 2020 so not that out of date. 

In fact 202 is one of the few companies which is up to date with its accounts filing. 

[SamUltraRam]

£3m a month does seem rather high if we won't be repaying creditors at this stage.

For example, any stadium & pitch maintenance costs should be paid by the stadium owner shouldn't they, not the football club - we don't own it

Maybe the Athletic are including any stadium rental fees which we don't know the cost of. Will Mel Morris still be charging us for that ?

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by SamUltraRam

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

?

202’s last filed accounts were June 2020 so not that out of date. 

In fact 202 is one of the few companies which is up to date with its accounts filing. 

I am looking to see whether Mel has repaid any of the debt that he owes for the purchase of the stadium from the club

[G STAR RAM]

34 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

its a lot less than that, 23 players on £4,500 is about  £7m, some like Lawrence are on a lot more and then you have Rooney etc. I would say well under £20m, perhaps as low as £15m 

£15m to £20m would be my guess too.

Not sure why people give such credence to 'journalists' like The Athletic, in the main they know very little more than the man on the street.

[duncanjwitham]

8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

It's a really good point.

I just did a quick 'back of an envelope' calculation using standard squad players like Fozzy and Shinnie on £15k, the 'embargo' boys on £5k, youngsters such as Sibley on £10k, Beilik and Lawrence on £30k, Jozwiak on £20k and the break through kids such as Festy on £2k. That comes out at just over £1m per month.

If the Athletic article is correct and allowing £500k for the rest of the payroll - manager, coaches and staff etc, it looks like my wages estimates for our non-embargo players are less than half of the reality. 

That just might be the answer as to why we're in this mess.

Don’t forget bonuses (for appearances etc), and stuff like employers NICs etc. The basic wage is just a single part of the wage bill.