Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, DCFC27 said:

Ultimately, whatever Mel has said and done. The fact is he bought the club, he authorised the contract and signed the cheques in a gamble to get us into the premier league, it hasn’t worked out and he should be the one paying for it now. The guy is a wealthy enough man to keep the club  afloat for many many years to come. The simply fact is he doesn’t want to. 
How does this persist? Why when it happened to Wigan and Bury was it not sorted.

FFP\P&S is a broken system… it allows clubs to loose £39 million over a 3 year period before anyone takes notice?! Bury can’t afford to loose £39m and now they are gone. 
I have said for a long time now, and I heard G Neville say something similar at the weekend. There needs to be real time regulation of clubs. There needs to be a way of making owners accountable. Let’s use the example of Mel. Mel bought Derby and he was reportedly worth £500m apparently he still is?! But let’s say he’s not and he’s “only” now worth £100m. He’s still got £100m that rightly (unfortunately not legally) should be in the club. 

Morally how is it right that Mel has £100m but the staff member at Moore farm won’t be paid and they will have to beg borrow steal to buy a loaf of bread now? 
Why is it that Wayne Rooney is paying for the teams away trips? 
Why is is that loyal Derby fans who paid for their season tickets and asked for a refund during the pandemic were ignored?! 
 

Something has to be done in future. Owners should have to personally guarantee their clubs liability’s over and above their incomings. Even if the there was some protection to owners - for example If you have an owner worth - £500m they have to personally guarantee the club until their down to their last £10m. 

Maybe then when Mel was hell bent on promotion, he’d have thought more about the contracts he was signing! He’d have thought harder about sacking Clement, Pearson, Cocu. He’d have thought harder about appointing them and he’d have know that if this goes wrong it’s going to cost him most of his fortune. 
 

However, this is not the case and Mel can now got to bed tonight sleeping like a baby, knowing that his money is safe. I genuinely believe he thinks he’s been hard done by here and it’s not his fault. Mel if you’re reading, pay off the debts. We know you can afford to. Just leave the club in the same state that you found it in. 

Great post, I was thinking the same sort of thing. You can't just gamble with the club, then walk away when you no longer fancy funding the mess you created.

Something I posted a while ago was could all transfers and wages be paid upfront in full to centrally run bank account, out of which clubs and players are then paid as per agreed schedule. Clubs would have to have to have the cash upfront before buying a player. Cash could be either gifted by an owner or taken from club profits.

The realtime regulation could then be paying rest of the staff/bills vs the incomings. Football needs to stop owner being able to gamble big, then walk away when they fancy it. 

I don't want to listen to the interview from yesterday, but was Mel asked "why are you not prepared to keep funding the club, like you said you would"?

[IslandExile]

Apologies if this has been explained already but.....

Please could somebody tell me why a potential buyer would find it more attractive (cheaper) to buy the club out of administration 

- as opposed to -

buying it from Mel given that, if I understand correctly, adminstration does not remove non-footballing debt (which will be the majority: HMRC, MSD).

And there'd be no 12 point deduction in the latter case.

In addition, if Mel cares so much, why doesn't he clear those debts and give the club away?

That's easy for me to say, of course, but if it's only 30 mill out of his net worth of 500 mill, having already put in > 200 mill, then to him it's not a massive amount.

And Mel would then be lauded, not slammed.

[Gringo]

I still think something weird is going on, normally the sequence of events is

1. Directors/owners decide as they cannot pay the bills as they fall due, they need to put the club into administration so as they are not trading whilst insolvent which would leave them open to serious legal peril.

2. They take advice and approach insolvency specialists.

3. Notice is filed and taken to court for authorisation to appoint the administrators.

4. Once authorisation granted Administrators arrive at the company/club get the door keys and take control of all the bank accounts, petty cash etc.

5. They then send in some junior staff to start pulling together all the financial information and prepare a creditors listing and any debtors who owe the club money.

Normally the administrators arrive same day or day after administrative order approved by the court, so my conclusion is that as no one has arrived at the stadium with that order, technically the club is not yet in administration.

I also find it a little strange that the club has not bought in some turnaround expertise to work on a plan to trade through the current situation especially as Mel Morris stated that the club could  now trade within its means going forwards, obviously there has been an event to trigger this situation, which I guess we will never find out, however as the club cannot be wound up whilst under administration, although the administrator can liquidate the club if there is no hope of saving it as a going concern I think that the event to trigger this could have come from the HMRC with a threatened winding up order.

However I believe that until the administrator bangs on the front door there could be some hope.

 

 

[SamUltraRam]

I assume that the EFL could now just impose their chosen penalty on us as they know we have nobody to pay the defence legal bill

That is a question I would have liked answered by Mel Morris yesterday " Now you are walking away, What now happens to the outstanding EFL charges against us & how do we defend them? "

Edited September 20, 2021 by SamUltraRam

[jono]

1 hour ago, I know nuffin said:

Silly question. If we are in administration isn't it down to the administrators to pay the wages, even if it means using their own money until they can get what was the club's money in. 

It's a question not a statement. Does anybody know

As I understand the administrators are the appointed representatives of the creditors. The major Creditors are usually the biggest lenders so they will undoubtedly give the Admins terms of reference .. I.e. not call loans in while the process is underway and provide funds for the Admins to go through the process of realising the best worth of the company .. i.e sale as a going concern or ceasing to trade and liquidating its assets. 

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

Thought it owed £73m to DCFC which no doubt the administrator of DCFC would be keen to collect?

We are talking about Gellaw 202 here aren’t we?

Based on out of date accounts, I think it maybe a lot less with the subsequent money injected by Mel recognised as loan repayments, we will see 

[Spanish]

44 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

I still think something weird is going on, normally the sequence of events is

1. Directors/owners decide as they cannot pay the bills as they fall due, they need to put the club into administration so as they are not trading whilst insolvent which would leave them open to serious legal peril.

2. They take advice and approach insolvency specialists.

3. Notice is filed and taken to court for authorisation to appoint the administrators.

4. Once authorisation granted Administrators arrive at the company/club get the door keys and take control of all the bank accounts, petty cash etc.

5. They then send in some junior staff to start pulling together all the financial information and prepare a creditors listing and any debtors who owe the club money.

Normally the administrators arrive same day or day after administrative order approved by the court, so my conclusion is that as no one has arrived at the stadium with that order, technically the club is not yet in administration.

I also find it a little strange that the club has not bought in some turnaround expertise to work on a plan to trade through the current situation especially as Mel Morris stated that the club could  now trade within its means going forwards, obviously there has been an event to trigger this situation, which I guess we will never find out, however as the club cannot be wound up whilst under administration, although the administrator can liquidate the club if there is no hope of saving it as a going concern I think that the event to trigger this could have come from the HMRC with a threatened winding up order.

However I believe that until the administrator bangs on the front door there could be some hope.

 

 

The intention defeats creditors for 2 weeks ish, it can be extended

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, I know nuffin said:

Silly question. If we are in administration isn't it down to the administrators to pay the wages, even if it means using their own money until they can get what was the club's money in. 

It's a question not a statement. Does anybody know

only if they can from the operating income  

[Icomeinpeace]

2 hours ago, I know nuffin said:

Silly question. If we are in administration isn't it down to the administrators to pay the wages, even if it means using their own money until they can get what was the club's money in. 

It's a question not a statement. Does anybody know

No they don't use their own money - in fact their fees are added to the debt as are any legal costs that may in some cases be incurred during the process - its sometimes said that the first thing any potential administrator checks is that their own fees can be paid at the end of the process (even if that end is liquidation). I believe Kieran Maguire said Bury’s administrators were charging £250 per hour..... 

[Birdyabroad]

Knowing Derby, if this lad ever makes his England debut, we’ll probably have to pay Liverpool! ?

Although we’ll only be able to offer them some chocolate buttons now ?

[Gringo]

43 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

only if they can from the operating income  

Usually the PFA will step in and help pay wages I think, also the Administrators, are not the clubs friends they are the equivalent of jackals who live off the corpses of companies that are ill,  "there is a place for them but it has not been dug yet"

[Eatonram]

8 minutes ago, Birdyabroad said:

Knowing Derby, if this lad ever makes his England debut, we’ll probably have to pay Liverpool! ?

Although we’ll only be able to offer them some chocolate buttons now ?

This whole story encapsulates what is wrong in football. Megabucks clubs taking from poorer clubs and there is not a word said or any attempt to inject fairness

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Normally the administrators arrive same day or day after administrative order approved by the court, so my conclusion is that as no one has arrived at the stadium with that order, technically the club is not yet in administration.

You are describing the sequence of events when a bank makes the appointment. That’s not what has happened here. The board can’t immediately file, because they have to give MSD notice of intention. That allows MSD to choose the administrator. 

But I agree some of this is weird. The comments in the club statement about MSD are odd. It’s quite possible MSD asked the board to issue notice of intent because MSD want to take control but don’t want to be seen as the aggressor. Or they just want time.  Taking control does not mean becoming owners but we can’t rule that out.
 

I think it’s possible MSD will now be in touch with potential buyers. They may even be hatching a plan to arrange a sale without going into administration. The biggest impediment to that is the size of the debt to HMRC 

[Gringo]

28 minutes ago, Birdyabroad said:

Knowing Derby, if this lad ever makes his England debut, we’ll probably have to pay Liverpool! ?

Although we’ll only be able to offer them some chocolate buttons now ?

John Percy is reporting the Rams will get £100,000  as soon as this lad makes hist first team debut for Liverpool 

[Gringo]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You are describing the sequence of events when a bank makes the appointment. That’s not what has happened here. The board can’t immediately file, because they have to give MSD notice of intention. That allows MSD to choose the administrator. 

But I agree some of this is weird. The comments in the club statement about MSD are odd. It’s quite possible MSD asked the board to issue notice of intent because MSD want to take control but don’t want to be seen as the aggressor. Or they just want time.  Taking control does not mean becoming owners but we can’t rule that out.
 

I think it’s possible MSD will now be in touch with potential buyers. They may even be hatching a plan to arrange a sale without going into administration. The biggest impediment to that is the size of the debt to HMRC 

Point taken , my comments came from personal experience when the bank - Lloyds,  pulled my working credit line, regarding HMRC you can bargain with them if the alternative is nada. I think your thoughts on MSD are interesting because why were Barclays the joint charge holder on the Stadium paid in full last Wednesday, this gives MSD total control of not just the stadium but they have a very wide charge over all the goods chattels and future earnings of the Rams, also backed by a PG from Mel Morris, MSD are now driving the agenda, still no sign of the administrator banging on the front door.

 

[Stive Pesley]

21 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

MSD are now driving the agenda

Agreed. I think the MSD loans were all pre-covid weren't they?

I think MSD saw established football clubs with a solid fanbase as a good bet when it came to high value loans. I don't think they really envisaged that an event like the pandemic could leave clubs unable to repay. Charges against the ground were likely just considered a token guarantee, but realistically if a club folds completely, they would be stuck with an unusual piece of real estate of limited value to anyone but a football club.

So I think the scenario we have is MSD forcing administration in order to make a sale happen, so that they don't end up in possession of an empty football stadium

 

[Sparkle]

42 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

John Percy is reporting the Rams will get £100,000  as soon as this lad makes hist first team debut for Liverpool 

Wages wages wages 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

51 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

John Percy is reporting the Rams will get £100,000  as soon as this lad makes hist first team debut for Liverpool 

Blimey. a whole 70% of Salah's weekly wage. Aren't we a bunch of lucky feckers.   Makes me sick 

[KBB]

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Blimey. a whole 70% of Salah's weekly wage. Aren't we a bunch of lucky feckers.   Makes me sick 

That winds me up, however what has wound me up more is looking at their fans twitter responses saying how good liverpools academy is, producing this wonderful talent.

Apparently he is the next one off the production line after Harvey Elliott.....  I couldn't even be bothered to validate it with a response.

[RadioactiveWaste]

7 minutes ago, KBB said:

That winds me up, however what has wound me up more is looking at their fans twitter responses saying how good liverpools academy is, producing this wonderful talent.

Apparently he is the next one off the production line after Harvey Elliott.....  I couldn't even be bothered to validate it with a response.

Get used to it. DCFC's role in developing young players who are successful will be airbrushed. Like Tom Huddelston was seen largely as a player brought through by Spurs.