Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The EFl CAN just settle, though the panel needs to put a rubber stamp on it. The reason they can settle on a basis that departs from values is that there is still debate and potential dispute about what amortisation policy is and is not permitted under FRS 102

they have other members to consider and they may (will) object to any softness shown to us.  We have been ordered to restate our accounts, at least at an EFL level there is no dispute, that ship has sailed.  Take this to the High Court then that maybe a different story

[alram]

my main worry going forward is, is this the end of the bad news? 

 

i am not sure it is, i have always been thinking the summer that we will do well to complete the season, that is my main worry.

[DCFC27]

Ultimately, whatever Mel has said and done. The fact is he bought the club, he authorised the contract and signed the cheques in a gamble to get us into the premier league, it hasn’t worked out and he should be the one paying for it now. The guy is a wealthy enough man to keep the club  afloat for many many years to come. The simply fact is he doesn’t want to. 
How does this persist? Why when it happened to Wigan and Bury was it not sorted.

FFP\P&S is a broken system… it allows clubs to loose £39 million over a 3 year period before anyone takes notice?! Bury can’t afford to loose £39m and now they are gone. 
I have said for a long time now, and I heard G Neville say something similar at the weekend. There needs to be real time regulation of clubs. There needs to be a way of making owners accountable. Let’s use the example of Mel. Mel bought Derby and he was reportedly worth £500m apparently he still is?! But let’s say he’s not and he’s “only” now worth £100m. He’s still got £100m that rightly (unfortunately not legally) should be in the club. 

Morally how is it right that Mel has £100m but the staff member at Moore farm won’t be paid and they will have to beg borrow steal to buy a loaf of bread now? 
Why is it that Wayne Rooney is paying for the teams away trips? 
Why is is that loyal Derby fans who paid for their season tickets and asked for a refund during the pandemic were ignored?! 
 

Something has to be done in future. Owners should have to personally guarantee their clubs liability’s over and above their incomings. Even if the there was some protection to owners - for example If you have an owner worth - £500m they have to personally guarantee the club until their down to their last £10m. 

Maybe then when Mel was hell bent on promotion, he’d have thought more about the contracts he was signing! He’d have thought harder about sacking Clement, Pearson, Cocu. He’d have thought harder about appointing them and he’d have know that if this goes wrong it’s going to cost him most of his fortune. 
 

However, this is not the case and Mel can now got to bed tonight sleeping like a baby, knowing that his money is safe. I genuinely believe he thinks he’s been hard done by here and it’s not his fault. Mel if you’re reading, pay off the debts. We know you can afford to. Just leave the club in the same state that you found it in. 

[alram]

did he answer what the situation with the stadium is? 

for me this is the worst thing he has done during his entire time here, we could be a homeless club in a few years like coventry

[DCFC27]

3 minutes ago, alram said:

did he answer what the situation with the stadium is? 

for me this is the worst thing he has done during his entire time here, we could be a homeless club in a few years like coventry

It is and it isn’t, I don’t know how I feel about it at the moment. From what he said, he owns it and it’s not in Admin. So that means that the admin can’t sell it to pay off the debts etc. On the other hand, Mel Morris owns it. 

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

it is astounding when you consider that we had to sell PP and still breach though.  Maybe when he said 17/18 he was referencing the end of the 3 year period

Keep in mind the “profit” the club took by selling the ground is only the difference between it’s book value and it’s current value. About £23m I seem to recall?

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

Keep in mind the “profit” the club took by selling the ground is only the difference between it’s book value and it’s current value. About £23m I seem to recall?

keep in mind the following

#DCFC sold their stadium to one of owner Mel Morris’s companies for £81m (independent valuation), which gave a £40m gain over the £41m value in the books.

 

[Crewton]

46 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Something has to be done in future. Owners should have to personally guarantee their clubs liability’s over and above their incomings. Even if the there was some protection to owners - for example If you have an owner worth - £500m they have to personally guarantee the club until their down to their last £10m. 

Good luck finding any owners willing to sign up to chuck everything in bar their last 2%. Even allowing for woeful mismanagement, when it's a business with so many variables, it'd take a brave or reckless person to commit their entire wealth to a bottomless pit and such a demanding group of customers as football fans.

The old joke about "how do you become a millionaire in football?" is still pretty relevant outside of the PL.

The PFA opposed salary caps, which alone would prevent owners doing most of what Mel did that has got us into trouble. The actual net transfer spend since 2015 is in the £20-25M bracket - it's wages that have screwed us. No-one's interested in curbing the real causes of club failures, least of all those who represent player's interests.

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

13 minutes ago, Spanish said:

keep in mind the following

#DCFC sold their stadium to one of owner Mel Morris’s companies for £81m (independent valuation), which gave a £40m gain over the £41m value in the books.

 

Wasn’t sure if the value, just some believe the whole £80m was profit. 

[atherstoneram]

1 hour ago, alram said:

my main worry going forward is, is this the end of the bad news? 

 

i am not sure it is, i have always been thinking the summer that we will do well to complete the season, that is my main worry.

It just depends if the administrators find anything lurking in the depths that hasn't been discovered yet.

[Woodley Ram]

At the moment our running costs are minimal, I have no idea how big the debt is. We need to keep going and fufil the league fixtures and make sure wages are paid. if we challenge the 12 points administration deduction (due to unforseen circumstances (Covid)) and challenge any FFP deduction then it is possible we can stay in the league and find a new owner before the January transfer window. Once the January window opens if we are still in administration our youngsters and better players will be sold for nothing.

I know that for a couple of years Mel played Russian roulette and lost but that is not the issue now. The issue is how soon can we get a new owner, how can we reduce any points deduction, how can we cover our current operating costs, how can we keep our better and younger players.

I have a season ticket and will go to the games to support Wayne and the team. I am also willing to put money into a crowd funding project to help with operating costs. With crowd funding it needs to be put together by someone with standing. I have invesstigated financial crime for the last 30+ years and I know how badly this can go wrong. It would be good if a local accounting or legal firm could take this on for us. I am willing to put in an least £1,000 maybe a bit  more 

  

[Spanish]

6 minutes ago, TooFarInToTurnRed said:

Wasn’t sure if the value, just some believe the whole £80m was profit. 

I didn't

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, DCFC27 said:

It is and it isn’t, I don’t know how I feel about it at the moment. From what he said, he owns it and it’s not in Admin. So that means that the admin can’t sell it to pay off the debts etc. On the other hand, Mel Morris owns it. 

pretty sure the stadium is pledged to MSD, as is the club and the academy. So MM would need to pay off MSD before he can do anything with the stadium.  I doubt the stadium company needs to go into administration yet, because it does not trade and it barely has any creditors so does not need protection from them. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by kevinhectoring

[kevinhectoring]

11 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

It just depends if the administrators find anything lurking in the depths that hasn't been discovered yet.

in the depths of an old kit bag, say Dave Mackay's jockstrap ?

They could put it on ebay to help pay their fees

Edited September 20, 2021 by kevinhectoring

[atherstoneram]

Just now, kevinhectoring said:

in the depths of an old kit bag, say Dave Mackay's jockstrap ?

Would imagine thats perished by now but i always wondered what that smell was around the BBG

[I know nuffin]

13 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

At the moment our running costs are minimal, I have no idea how big the debt is. We need to keep going and fufil the league fixtures and make sure wages are paid. if we challenge the 12 points administration deduction (due to unforseen circumstances (Covid)) and challenge any FFP deduction then it is possible we can stay in the league and find a new owner before the January transfer window. Once the January window opens if we are still in administration our youngsters and better players will be sold for nothing.

I know that for a couple of years Mel played Russian roulette and lost but that is not the issue now. The issue is how soon can we get a new owner, how can we reduce any points deduction, how can we cover our current operating costs, how can we keep our better and younger players.

I have a season ticket and will go to the games to support Wayne and the team. I am also willing to put money into a crowd funding project to help with operating costs. With crowd funding it needs to be put together by someone with standing. I have invesstigated financial crime for the last 30+ years and I know how badly this can go wrong. It would be good if a local accounting or legal firm could take this on for us. I am willing to put in an least £1,000 maybe a bit  more 

  

Silly question. If we are in administration isn't it down to the administrators to pay the wages, even if it means using their own money until they can get what was the club's money in. 

It's a question not a statement. Does anybody know

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

4 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Silly question. If we are in administration isn't it down to the administrators to pay the wages, even if it means using their own money until they can get what was the club's money in. 

It's a question not a statement. Does anybody know

Er - No!

There is no way any administrator will put themselves in a position of having to pay anything with their own money. 

[Half Fan Half Biscuit]

23 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

pretty sure the stadium is pledged to MSD, as is the club and the academy. So MM would need to pay off MSD before he can do anything with the stadium.  I doubt the stadium company needs to go into administration yet, because it does not trade and it barely has any creditors so does not need protection from them. 

Thought it owed £73m to DCFC which no doubt the administrator of DCFC would be keen to collect?

We are talking about Gellaw 202 here aren’t we?

Edited September 20, 2021 by Half Fan Half Biscuit
Added name of company for clarity

[Kingpin]

1 hour ago, DCFC27 said:

Mel if you’re reading, pay off the debts. We know you can afford to. Just leave the club in the same state that you found it in. 

THIS. 

[One Andy Weimann]

The obsession with accounts is clear, however the issue is cash! Accounts can be made to say anything, that’s why you have accounting standards, but cash is king. All businesses die not because of anything other than cash flow! What Derby have at bank and what can be raised above that will be the determining factor of the coming weeks and months.