Rooney In!

[roboto]

I think most young players would've seemed to have regressed when playing in a side struggling for results and goals and edging closer to the relegation zone with every match. The whole squad form took a nosedive and no one looked like being able to steer the ship to safety.

Fortunately we fumbled our way through to safety somehow. In a perfect world we would've been safe sooner and we'd be able to have some care free matches where the team could play without the fear of relegation hanging over them.

With a clean slate next season and a full pre-season to work with, I'm sure Rooney can learn more about the squad he has, what he needs and more importantly how to get the young players back on track.

I hope the fans give Rooney and the team a bit of time next season to get back on track. It wouldn't be ideal if there was a chorus of boos for the team or the coaches before we'd even kicked a ball in the 21/22 season.

[Gringo]

I listened to a football podcast yesterday which posed a fascinating question " In a league of 24 teams if there were 24 Guardiola's as managers there would still be 3 teams relegated so how much influence does the manager have on winning the league or getting relegated" The considered answers was that the manager has 5% effect on results, the budget for players and wages 95% effect.

I agree with this so to criticise Rooney when you do not know under what conditions he was managing under is to coin the favourite word of my least favourite poster on here "facile"

[Spanish]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

It's hard to know whether Sibley has regressed or not as we don't see much of him, and when we do it's not in his best position! ?

Don't remind me or I might be changing my mind about Rooney again. I feel like I am a bit of a floating voter on the Rooney issue. ?

I do wish there were more floating voters, too many are so invested in their own views nothing will move them

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, Asheville Ram said:

I listened to a football podcast yesterday which posed a fascinating question " In a league of 24 teams if there were 24 Guardiola's as managers there would still be 3 teams relegated so how much influence does the manager have on winning the league or getting relegated" The considered answers was that the manager has 5% effect on results, the budget for players and wages 95% effect.

I agree with this so to criticise Rooney when you do not know under what conditions he was managing under is to coin the favourite word of my least favourite poster on here "facile"

For avoidance of doubt are you progressing that the manager has 5% influence on results in a normal scenario or 5% in the scenario you've quoted?

I was going to say this was a very facile analysis but I won't now.....

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, mwram1973 said:

I don't think for 1 min he wanted to play that many youngsters this season. Knight looked burnt out with 10 games left imo. We have good youngsters, but this season they have had to play far more than they should have done.

Rooney has said he needs a lot of players for next season so I think the youngsters will get game time but will also get the rest they need and focus on improving.

I don't think we can apply that to the previously prolific Sibley who went from hero to zero under Rooney who rarely chose to play him.

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't think we can apply that to the previously prolific Sibley who went from hero to zero under Rooney who rarely chose to play him.

Didn't look as good without Martin to play off?

[Ramarena]

4 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I also don't buy the theory that come August, we'll see a demonstrable change in style. The idea that a manager would use pure game to game pragmatism for 35 games (75% of a season) & then convert the side to a particular style strikes me as being unrealistic & a desperate bid to buy some time.

It also tallies with where I think Rooney wants to go. He doesn't want to stay at Derby any longer than necessary & the only way he's going to get to the top end of the Premiership is by sheer weight of results.

Strongly suspect a Rooney team is very similar to what we saw last season. Pragmatic, negative, not afraid to go long, hard working & ultimately pretty dull. If we relate that to previous managers he wants to go from being Phil Brown to being Gary Rowett.

Based on what exactly? We don't know how he wants to play nor has he bought anyone - no track record on either. The idea we would theoretically give him millions to 'see what happens' strikes me as a sheer blind faith punt. 

Yep pretty much what I see.

I’d also add that unless there’s a takeover then he’s going to be working  with a similar budget to last season, so expect to see a similar reaction from him unless he can pull a masterstroke from his ‘arris.

I think the “looking for assurances” statement he made after the game was very telling and the first stage of his media control strategy, as is yesterday’s charm offensive, that will have been worked on with his advisers. 

He’s in a bit of catch 22 situation, he’s struggled badly and his advisors will be telling him DCFC is tainting his marketability (obviously they won’t tell him he’s been part of the problem).

He now needs to work out if it’s best to stay or walk. If there’s a takeover then I imagine he’ll stay. If it’s Mel and a tight budget next season, my money would be on him walking away and trying to rebuild elsewhere (probably do his badges and a coaching role at Manure to get some credibility back).

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

 

Based on what exactly? We don't know how he wants to play nor has he bought anyone - no track record on either. The idea we would theoretically give him millions to 'see what happens' strikes me as a sheer blind faith punt. 

Oooh...but but...we're good at those...he who dares Rodney... 

Oh...er....hang on... 

(and especially for @i-Ram?) 

[LeedsCityRam]

6 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Yep pretty much what I see.

I’d also add that unless there’s a takeover then he’s going to be working  with a similar budget to last season, so expect to see a similar reaction from him unless he can pull a masterstroke from his ‘arris.

I think the “looking for assurances” statement he made after the game was very telling and the first stage of his media control strategy, as is yesterday’s charm offensive, that will have been worked on with his advisers. 

He’s in a bit of catch 22 situation, he’s struggled badly and his advisors will be telling him DCFC is tainting his marketability (obviously they won’t tell him he’s been part of the problem).

He now needs to work out if it’s best to stay or walk. If there’s a takeover then I imagine he’ll stay. If it’s Mel and a tight budget next season, my money would be on him walking away and trying to rebuild elsewhere (probably do his badges and a coaching role at Manure to get some credibility back).

Completely agree. Makes sense for him to hang around in the short term to see if there is a takeover with significant funds attached - the fact he's still here should probably demonstrate to some of our more 'apocalyptical' posters that there is a very good chance we will be taken over soon by a serious buyer.

If everything falls through however, I'd be shocked if he stuck around. His media pals/management team can spin the narrative of 'Derby were bottom when he started & he kept them up' & he can walk away presenting his time here as a success. Then would make sense him getting his badges, spending time at top clubs to learn different approaches & then landing a job elsewhere in a few months' time.

In an ideal world, he walks before the end of the month frustrated at the lack of progress with a takeover & then a proper buyer comes in, possibly keen not to have to pay him off.

[mwram1973]

1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't think we can apply that to the previously prolific Sibley who went from hero to zero under Rooney who rarely chose to play him.

I think the issue with Sibley was, yes, he was playing well but his overall game was immature, ie, flying into silly tackles, getting booked too often etc. Rooney has mentioned this and I think once he's learned to calm down a bit ( just his age imo ), he'll get more game time and i think he'll become an important player under Rooney.

But he has to learn to calm down.

imo ?

[Ramarena]

6 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Completely agree. Makes sense for him to hang around in the short term to see if there is a takeover with significant funds attached - the fact he's still here should probably demonstrate to some of our more 'apocalyptical' posters that there is a very good chance we will be taken over soon by a serious buyer.

If everything falls through however, I'd be shocked if he stuck around. His media pals/management team can spin the narrative of 'Derby were bottom when he started & he kept them up' & he can walk away presenting his time here as a success. Then would make sense him getting his badges, spending time at top clubs to learn different approaches & then landing a job elsewhere in a few months' time.

In an ideal world, he walks before the end of the month frustrated at the lack of progress with a takeover & then a proper buyer comes in, possibly keen not to have to pay him off.

Yep, from DCFC fan perspective if there’s no takeover and it’s Mel and a tight budget then him walking would be the best option for us.

We would then need a manager who’s got a track record of getting blood from a stone, with excellent contacts from the Champ down. We may have to look at league 1 for that type of candidate.

[RoyMac5]

Whilst looking for info on The 3 Amigos takeover I came across this interesting quote in the Indy:

"They also get a historic football club, debt-laden but boasting a new stadium, a new training ground, a renowned academy producing youngsters like 16-year-olds Tom Huddlestone and Lee Holmes who are being eyed by Premiership clubs - and 20,000 people still turning up to watch."

[Jourdan]

I can’t remember ever dreading an upcoming season so much.

It seems Rooney will be in charge. But of course we all know this is by default, rather than through genuine merit.

I am intrigued to know why some posters believe that next season will be different.

A full pre season? Is Rooney going to establish a consistent and watchable style in six weeks after being unable to do so in six months?

A transfer window? Is Rooney going to unearth and attract a higher quality of player compared to those he signed after weeks of planning in the winter?

A clean slate? Isn’t the majority of the squad likely to be the same group Rooney was unable to coax anything out of and one which came within minutes of being relegated?

Everyone starts on zero? We could be hit with a points deduction any day now.

A potential takeover? Haven’t we had two failed takeovers in 12 months? How likely is it that one is completed in a timely manner with the necessary due diligence completed and with a new ownership group that can provide the club with the boost it needs?

If the desire for a competent, battle-tested, experienced manager leaves people speechless, the desire to gamble with our footballing future once again and place it in the hands of an unqualified novice leaves me equally lost for words.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, mwram1973 said:

I think the issue with Sibley was, yes, he was playing well but his overall game was immature, ie, flying into silly tackles, getting booked too often etc. Rooney has mentioned this and I think once he's learned to calm down a bit ( just his age imo ), he'll get more game time and i think he'll become an important player under Rooney.

But he has to learn to calm down.

imo ?

I'm not particularly bothered about calming down,this is the kid who was scored a fantastic hat trick last season for us and frightened every team we played to death.

And we come to this season and Rooney can't manage/coach him and he spends the season on the bench....in the season we need goals more than any other.

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't look as good without Martin to play off?

Who knows Roy,Rooney hardly played him and when he did he was out of position in relation to kazim who could do a pretty decent impression of CM when he was allowed to do so.

This was one of the things that drove me around the bend about Wayne...the ingredients were there,he just couldn't gel them together effectively.....sibbers and knight should have been scoring for fun playing off him this season but one was trudging around at the back of the mid field,rarely moving forwards and the other was kept on the bench because Wayne didn't like his attitude seemingly.

To be fair,if I'd had a season like the one before where I was flying and the new gaffer came in and dropped me,I suspect I'd try a bit too hard and have a bit of an attitude,especially when the black and white runs through my blood as a player and massive Derby fan...it must have killed him.

And then we let him off for having no decent players Roy...he had some,he just didn't know what to do with them.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

And then we let him off for having no decent players Roy...he had done, he just didn't know what to do with them.

Of course he did. But When the injuries bit the risks were too great. We looked okay in the final few games of the season - but still we shipped goals like water!

Edited May 18, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Jimbo Ram]

56 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I can’t remember ever dreading an upcoming season so much.

It seems Rooney will be in charge. But of course we all know this is by default, rather than through genuine merit.

I am intrigued to know why some posters believe that next season will be different.

A full pre season? Is Rooney going to establish a consistent and watchable style in six weeks after being unable to do so in six months?

A transfer window? Is Rooney going to unearth and attract a higher quality of player compared to those he signed after weeks of planning in the winter?

A clean slate? Isn’t the majority of the squad likely to be the same group Rooney was unable to coax anything out of and one which came within minutes of being relegated?

Everyone starts on zero? We could be hit with a points deduction any day now.

A potential takeover? Haven’t we had two failed takeovers in 12 months? How likely is it that one is completed in a timely manner with the necessary due diligence completed and with a new ownership group that can provide the club with the boost it needs?

If the desire for a competent, battle-tested, experienced manager leaves people speechless, the desire to gamble with our footballing future once again and place it in the hands of an unqualified novice leaves me equally lost for words.

Pretty much sums up where we stand ?

[24Charlie]

55 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I can’t remember ever dreading an upcoming season so much.

 

Lighten up lad.

With any luck we'll all be able to go and watch which will be a good thing won't it?

 *(For clarity I believe the vaccines will work on the Indian variant so I think we'll be on track for a full stadium come August)

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Of course he did. But When the injuries bit the risks were too great. We looked okay in the final few games of the season - but still we shipped goals like water!

I can't say that we particularly did to be honest,we looked the relegation fodder that we were,no spark or inspiration,we just looked manic.

I just hope that wayne has learnt from this season and dramatically ups his game,no excuses.....If he does and we see a style of play and the players themselves responding to him positively and not just getting public bollockings then excellent.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I can’t remember ever dreading an upcoming season so much.

If we're allowed in to watch then I can't wait - bring it on!