Rooney In!

[angieram]

12 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

And in fact largely regressed ?

 

It's hard to know whether Sibley has regressed or not as we don't see much of him, and when we do it's not in his best position! ?

Don't remind me or I might be changing my mind about Rooney again. I feel like I am a bit of a floating voter on the Rooney issue. ?

[Anag Ram]

34 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I also don't buy the theory that come August, we'll see a demonstrable change in style. The idea that a manager would use pure game to game pragmatism for 35 games (75% of a season) & then convert the side to a particular style strikes me as being unrealistic & a desperate bid to buy some time.

It also tallies with where I think Rooney wants to go. He doesn't want to stay at Derby any longer than necessary & the only way he's going to get to the top end of the Premiership is by sheer weight of results.

Strongly suspect a Rooney team is very similar to what we saw last season. Pragmatic, negative, not afraid to go long, hard working & ultimately pretty dull. If we relate that to previous managers he wants to go from being Phil Brown to being Gary Rowett.

Based on what exactly? We don't know how he wants to play nor has he bought anyone - no track record on either. The idea we would theoretically give him millions to 'see what happens' strikes me as a sheer blind faith punt. 

Giving money to any manager is a 'punt'. 

I just don't think you can judge a manager until he's been given the opportunity to bring in the players he wants. 

He spent the last part of last season with a side bereft of confidence, hoping they would :

A not concede soft goals 

B suddenly find their goalscoring touch

We need a new broom and Rooney at present is best placed to know who's worth keeping and who's not. 

It's not ideal but it's probably the most likely and we will just have to get behind him and hope he's a success. 

I'm not going into a new season hoping either the manager or the players fail. 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

35 minutes ago, angieram said:

It's hard to know whether Sibley has regressed or not as we don't see much of him, and when we do it's not in his best position! ?

Don't remind me or I might be changing my mind about Rooney again. I feel like I am a bit of a floating voter on the Rooney issue. ?

I've passed into the negative Rooney side,partly because of his mishandling of the youngsters.

Looks like we will be going into the new season with him however, so let's hope he can change it around.

I'm not particularly hopeful though to be quite honest.

Edited May 18, 2021 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I've passed into the negative Rooney side,partly because of his mishandling of the youngsters.

Looks like we will be going into the new season with him however, so let's hope he can change it around.

I'm not particularly hopeful though to be quite honest.

Well if the youngsters are currently as good as some think then we may not have them around next season anyway, we need money!

[LeedsCityRam]

14 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Giving money to any manager is a 'punt'. 

I just don't think you can judge a manager until he's been given the opportunity to bring in the players he wants. 

He spent the last part of last season with a side bereft of confidence, hoping they would :

A not concede soft goals 

B suddenly find their goalscoring touch

We need a new broom and Rooney at present is best placed to know who's worth keeping and who's not. 

It's not ideal but it's probably the most likely and we will just have to get behind him and hope he's a success. 

I'm not going into a new season hoping either the manager or the players fail. 

 

Disagree. Managers with a previous track record of a) employing a specific style of football & b) buying players to fit that style are worthy of that trust. A novice manager who admits to not having a style after 35 games, has never bought a player on a permanent basis & has a terrible record has not earnt that trust & hence is a punt. Ordinarily I would agree a manager deserves a chance.

Not entirely convinced we need a new broom either. Majority of this squad finished 10th season before last & still believe with 4/5 quality additions (2 CB, 1 MD, 2 ST), we could be top 6 material. Sadly that level of performance would only be possible with a good manager who has a plan. Like I've said elsewhere, I don't want him to fail & we will likely have to accept he has the first few weeks of next season but the overwhelming evidence at this stage indicates he will fail.

[mwram1973]

17 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I've passed into the negative Rooney side,partly because of his mishandling of the youngsters.

Looks like we will be going into the new season with him however, so let's hope he can change it around.

I'm not particularly hopeful though to be quite honest.

I don't think for 1 min he wanted to play that many youngsters this season. Knight looked burnt out with 10 games left imo. We have good youngsters, but this season they have had to play far more than they should have done.

Rooney has said he needs a lot of players for next season so I think the youngsters will get game time but will also get the rest they need and focus on improving.

[mwram1973]

7 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Disagree. Managers with a previous track record of a) employing a specific style of football & b) buying players to fit that style are worthy of that trust. A novice manager who admits to not having a style after 35 games, has never bought a player on a permanent basis & has a terrible record has not earnt that trust & hence is a punt. Ordinarily I would agree a manager deserves a chance.

Not entirely convinced we need a new broom either. Majority of this squad finished 10th season before last & still believe with 4/5 quality additions (2 CB, 1 MD, 2 ST), we could be top 6 material. Sadly that level of performance would only be possible with a good manager who has a plan. Like I've said elsewhere, I don't want him to fail & we will likely have to accept he has the first few weeks of next season but the overwhelming evidence at this stage indicates he will fail.

Paul jewell

Nigel Pearson

Philip Cocu

That went well didn't it?

Not forgetting Stevie Mac 1 & 2

Imo EVERY Appointment is a gamble, some pay off, most don't.

[Jimbo Ram]

47 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Giving money to any manager is a 'punt'. 

I just don't think you can judge a manager until he's been given the opportunity to bring in the players he wants. 

He spent the last part of last season with a side bereft of confidence, hoping they would :

A not concede soft goals 

B suddenly find their goalscoring touch

We need a new broom and Rooney at present is best placed to know who's worth keeping and who's not. 

It's not ideal but it's probably the most likely and we will just have to get behind him and hope he's a success. 

I'm not going into a new season hoping either the manager or the players fail. 

 

A side bereft of confidence.....is it not part of a Manager's remit to instil confidence in the team, important part of the role in my view.....Rooney seemed just unable to do it.....

[YorkshireRam]

15 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's the point. I know nothing.

FTFY

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

FTFY

Thanks. 

[Comrade 86]

I'm going to try distraction techniques now. Here's a dog chasing an explosive cat.

[TimRam]

2 or 3 new players could make all the difference. See how we dropped off the results once Bielik got injured. Also look at the Mount, Tomori and Wilson season. Maybe something similar 3 quality loans? Not sure if we have the money though. Not been following the behind the scenes stuff really.

[BondJovi]

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well if the youngsters are currently as good as some think then we may not have them around next season anyway, we need money!

I believe the youngsters are the only real thing going for the club currently. When the season started Sibley, Bird, Knight all could have attracted a high price, Whittaker and Buchanan potential. By 15 games or so you could say Buchanan was worth his most.

Now? We flogged Whittaker for a pitiful 700k. And all those players stock will have dropped. Sibley in particular.

Letting the value of our assets drop at a time when we are financially screwed could be seen as a failure of management. 

Let's be brutally honest. Rooney was signed for business reasons first, playing reasons second. His name has failed to attract the big bucks Mel wanted. His playing after initial promise sank. We then gambled that him as manager would make us an attractive prospect. It hasn't. 

We have zero signs that he can improve next season. All we have is hope and blind faith. And that is before you even consider our financial position or even points position.

[Anag Ram]

Getting rid of Rooney will cost millions we don’t have. Better to give him that money to buy a new player.

Pep Guardiola would have struggled to keep our squad up last year. Rooney has made loads of mistakes. This forum wants heads to roll every season. There’s no continuity. Players learn the Lampard way, the Cocu way and, when he establishes it, the Rooney way.

We only got to Wembley due to the three loan stars and Richard Keogh. They’ve all gone and the player we pitched our hopes on got injured.

We have to give Rooney a fresh chance for financial reasons as well as footballing ones. He may also be the magnet for new investment. There’s a massive story in his future redemption.

[LeedsCityRam]

30 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

Paul jewell

Nigel Pearson

Philip Cocu

That went well didn't it?

Not forgetting Stevie Mac 1 & 2

Imo EVERY Appointment is a gamble, some pay off, most don't.

Didn't say appointments or transfers weren't gambles - its about risk mitigation

When trusting a manager with cash, what risk management are you doing to reduce the chance of wasting millions? A key part of that would be decision making from someone with a) a strong previous track record & b) an idea of what he wants to implement the style he wants to bring about. Rooney has neither.

FWIW Pearson bought 'well' for the style of play he wanted, he just never had the chance to implement it because he left so quickly. Cocu's signings (when we weren't actually under a transfer embargo) were generally good, as were McClaren's.

Edited May 18, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Getting rid of Rooney will cost millions we don’t have. Better to give him that money to buy a new player.

Pep Guardiola would have struggled to keep our squad up last year. Rooney has made loads of mistakes. This forum wants heads to roll every season. There’s no continuity. Players learn the Lampard way, the Cocu way and, when he establishes it, the Rooney way.

We only got to Wembley due to the three loan stars and Richard Keogh. They’ve all gone and the player we pitched our hopes on got injured.

We have to give Rooney a fresh chance for financial reasons as well as footballing ones. He may also be the magnet for new investment. There’s a massive story in his future redemption.

Do you believe there is a chance continuity can work if it's continuity of the wrong manager? 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I believe the youngsters are the only real thing going for the club currently. When the season started Sibley, Bird, Knight all could have attracted a high price, Whittaker and Buchanan potential. By 15 games or so you could say Buchanan was worth his most.

Is it so straightforward? The fans said for seasons that Will Hughes was wanted by x,y & z clubs for ultra big money. He was playing in a team that helped him look good and he played well. In the end he went to Watford for a small fee.

So how can you assert so strongly what our young players may or may not be worth, based on limited games at a higher level than the Academy.

This season might gives us more of a clue as to how good the youngsters are. FWIW I think £700k for Whittaker when we needed money was pretty reasonable.

[Anag Ram]

Just now, Andicis said:

Do you believe there is a chance continuity can work if it's continuity of the wrong manager? 

Who knows? Plenty have started their club career poorly and learnt from their mistakes.

I’m not a raving Rooney fan. I just think it’s a fait accompli he will be in charge at the start of the season and we may as well get used to it. Let’s hope that he gets a few good players in and starts winning matches.

I just think the fans should be behind any Derby manager at the start of a new season.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Who knows? Plenty have started their club career poorly and learnt from their mistakes.

I’m not a raving Rooney fan. I just think it’s a fait accompli he will be in charge at the start of the season and we may as well get used to it. Let’s hope that he gets a few good players in and starts winning matches.

I just think the fans should be behind any Derby manager at the start of a new season.

But everyone will be behind Derby at the least of the season. It comes down to whether you believe it's the right move or not. 

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Is it so straightforward? The fans said for seasons that Will Hughes was wanted by x,y & z clubs for ultra big money. He was playing in a team that helped him look good and he played well. In the end he went to Watford for a small fee.

So how can you assert so strongly what our young players may or may not be worth, based on limited games at a higher level than the Academy.

This season might gives us more of a clue as to how good the youngsters are. FWIW I think £700k for Whittaker when we needed money was pretty reasonable.

The youngsters have gone backwards under Wazza haven't they 'H'.....