EFL appeal

[Van der MoodHoover]

I think our case is considerably more complex than SWFC and the EFL themselves should be embarrassed with their part in the poorly drafted rules. 

Given everything we've already had imposed, I can see more arguments and/or appeals. 

[kevinhectoring]

43 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

That bit I agree with, but not the size of penalty 

Wendies accounting offence was much worse than ours   But we misled the EFl and we will get punished for that. Overall I think we’ll get off more lightly than they did 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, BucksRam said:

The irony is this whole thing has had such a detrimental affect on us already, including soft embargoes, no doubt negatively impacting any takeover, demoralising staff and players, on top if all the problems created by covid not least financially, you could argue we've been punished enough.  But the EFL won't or don't see it like that.  

I think the EFL will and do see it like that, that is the point.

Rick Parry knows exactly what he is doing.

[kevinhectoring]

30 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I think our case is considerably more complex than SWFC and the EFL themselves should be embarrassed with their part in the poorly drafted rules. 

But isn’t the rule we broke the one that says: accounts need to comply with the companies act?  No problem with that drafting  

[Carnero]

13 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

But isn’t the rule we broke the one that says: accounts need to comply with the companies act?  No problem with that drafting  

We have a signed auditors report saying that they do comply with the Companies Act, so ?‍♂️

[Van der MoodHoover]

14 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

But isn’t the rule we broke the one that says: accounts need to comply with the companies act?  No problem with that drafting  

You mean because the argument is that an approach we've taken to a technical topic may, in some people's opinion, be less "true and fair" somehow than doing it a different way.?

Trying to find objectivity by retrospectively considering whether an approach "fits" because the system is not codified..very tricky. 

Given there are at least 4 or 5 different methods for amortisation in general circulation then why not one more?

The subjectivity and lack of codification is why there is such a delay. 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

That bit I agree with, but not the size of penalty 

Where did I say anything about the size of a penalty?

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Carnero said:

We have a signed auditors report saying that they do comply with the Companies Act, so ?‍♂️

Our auditor accepted in the first proceedings that the notes were wonky

There’s an argument that the LAP is not a court of law, and that therefore it’s still open to the club to argue that the draft accounts were compliant. But I hope Mel doesn’t go there 

[atherstoneram]

6 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Our auditor accepted in the first proceedings that the notes were wonky

There’s an argument that the LAP is not a court of law, and that therefore it’s still open to the club to argue that the draft accounts were compliant. But I hope Mel doesn’t go there 

MM probably hasn't got the will or energy to argue anymore,he just wants rid.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

You mean because the argument is that an approach we've taken to a technical topic may, in some people's opinion, be less "true and fair" somehow than doing it a different way.?

Trying to find objectivity by retrospectively considering whether an approach "fits" because the system is not codified..very tricky. 

Given there are at least 4 or 5 different methods for amortisation in general circulation then why not one more?

The subjectivity and lack of codification is why there is such a delay. 

 

It’s not a ‘true and fair view’ point. The question before the panel was whether the accounts reflect the FRS. You say it’s not codified but if you’re familiar with the FRS it’s pretty bloody detailed. I think the EFL felt it had to appeal. Because to ensure consistency they have to limit the approaches clubs take to amortisation. Gibson has a vendetta but I don’t think the EFL appeal was a result of a vendetta

The delay is a result of diaries and the time it takes the lawyers and panel to write and review submissions. It helps us because it ensures we stay in the championship 

[Van der MoodHoover]

12 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

It’s not a ‘true and fair view’ point. The question before the panel was whether the accounts reflect the FRS. You say it’s not codified but if you’re familiar with the FRS it’s pretty bloody detailed. I think the EFL felt it had to appeal. Because to ensure consistency they have to limit the approaches clubs take to amortisation. Gibson has a vendetta but I don’t think the EFL appeal was a result of a vendetta

The delay is a result of diaries and the time it takes the lawyers and panel to write and review submissions. It helps us because it ensures we stay in the championship 

It's about 400 pages. 

Intangible assets (values of rights etc) is about 7 pages. 

And like all such documents, amortisation is tackled obliquely in bits by going on about the measurement of value on acquisition, and subsequently. What the term of amortisation should be etc etc

What I think you would like to point to is section 18.22, which is basically writing down what amortisation is, states that you should amortize using a systematic method based on consumption of economic benefits and only at the end states that "if the pattern cannot be determined reliably then the straight line method will be used". 

Lots of undefined terms. Systematic method. Reliably. Economic benefits. 

So no, I see no codification of amortisation rules in any of that. Lots of principles, scope for opinion and judgement and therefore differences in interpretation to emerge. 

[RoyMac5]

29 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The delay is a result of diaries and the time it takes the lawyers and panel to write and review submissions. It helps us because it ensures we stay in the championship 

I thought the delay was down to Boro and the EFL appealing certain points in the process and so slowing stuff down? We stayed in the Championship because we had enough points.

[S8TY]

Been off here for a bit enjoying the Euros and summer sunshine then come back on and read this thread and wham!!!! back to reality !!

It's no ones fault on here and of course its an important debate but I don't know about anyone else but the seemingly endless problems that are ongoing is really getting to me.....I'd love to be just talking about what we love but that seems way down the list and the EFL and us have really become a laughing stock its embarrasing and draining ...the EFL appeal...The Fine...The points deduction....The Takeover...will we sign anyone...the transfer embargo blah blaaah blaaaah I'd just love it if we could just get this sorted and move on!! It feels painful to be a Derby fan at the moment and yet I love this club and love football , win lose or draw football is why I choose to follow this club all over the country ....it just seems never bloody ending........................sad times indeed ................COYR 

[Sparkle]

We would get charged if we used no amortisation at all because the EFL would say it’s a scam 

[Eddie]

[RadioactiveWaste]

But won't anyone think of Steve Gibson?

He's still pacing around his box at the riverside talking to invisibe people about the upcoming play off matches and how Boro are going to have to make some smart recruitment during the 19/20 premier league season, but Tony has got the x factor that a thrusting dynamic side like Middlesbrough need. He keeps asking if it's confirmed to be Leeds utd, about catering arrangments.....it's all very sad.

[DCFC1388]

I think we will get a slap on the wrist, maybe a small fine as well, but have to pay all the legal fee's and that is it - hopefully this will be then put to bed before the fixture release date next Thurs.

I also think we will have to go back to the original/standard amortization policy for the 17/18, 18/19 & 19/20 so we have the P&S 3 year cycle in in place and submit these with 18/19 & 19/20 not actually submitted yet. If I remember rightly the club have previously stated we would still be within the P&S limits even in this way as the 17/18 season had the stadium sale in so we had a £14.6m profit on the accounts. If we're not, that is when any points deductions may come but the club will be in a position to challenge them as we will surely say any deals were based off the the other amortization policy being given the ok and had it not been we would've cut our cloth accordingly.

[Woodley Ram]

13 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Where did I say anything about the size of a penalty?

You didn’t, it’s what I thought you meant from your post, I have reread and agree with you

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, DCFC1388 said:

I think we will get a slap on the wrist, maybe a small fine as well, but have to pay all the legal fee's and that is it - hopefully this will be then put to bed before the fixture release date next Thurs.

I also think we will have to go back to the original/standard amortization policy for the 17/18, 18/19 & 19/20 so we have the P&S 3 year cycle in in place and submit these with 18/19 & 19/20 not actually submitted yet. If I remember rightly the club have previously stated we would still be within the P&S limits even in this way as the 17/18 season had the stadium sale in so we had a £14.6m profit on the accounts. If we're not, that is when any points deductions may come but the club will be in a position to challenge them as we will surely say any deals were based off the the other amortization policy being given the ok and had it not been we would've cut our cloth accordingly.

Oh god. Another £50m down the Swanee.

Relatively obscure fact - the actual name of the river which inspired the song is "Suwannee"

[Wistaston Ram]

33 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Oh god. Another £50m down the Swanee.

Relatively obscure fact - the actual name of the river which inspired the song is "Suwannee"

Everyday is an education on this site, even if I don't learn anything new about our club's fate!