Sith Happens Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 While things are so cheery on here I wondered if anyone knows when the result of the EFLs appeal will be announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sith Happens said: While things are so cheery on here I wondered if anyone knows when the result of the EFLs appeal will be announced. No idea, I think they were only appealing the amotisation points they lost and gave up on the stadium (but i might be wrong on that) Reggie Greenwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Knowing how the EFL like to drag things out, it’ll probably be announced around the time we next play a Premier League game. In other words, never. Finch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 they will wait until the points they dock us can't be made up ..? Rampage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG400 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I suspect they are dragging it out so that any points deduction will be applied to next season and double the impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) On 22/11/2020 at 14:16, RadioactiveWaste said: No idea, I think they were only appealing the amotisation points they lost and gave up on the stadium (but i might be wrong on that) I think that’s right. But it was found that our accounts were misleading because the change in accounting policy was not disclosed. Personally I’m hoping the t/o will happen and that the new owners will have resolved all of this w the EFL. It could be messy otherwise, despite MM having won the argument on the stadium Edited January 8, 2021 by kevinhectoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 44 minutes ago, JG400 said: I suspect they are dragging it out so that any points deduction will be applied to next season and double the impact Why would they do that when they could pretty much guarantee our relegation this season? angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I thought it had been established that we can't get docked points based on this appeael. Ted McMinn Football Genius, Reggie Greenwood and MikeS 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: I think that’s right. But it was found that our accounts were misleading because the change in accounting policy was not disclosed. Personally I’m hoping the t/o will happen and that the new owners will have resolved all of this w the EFL. It could be messy otherwise, despite MM having won the argument on the stadium It wasn't misleading. The only thing that we were found guilty on was that we didn't make it clear enough that we had changed our amortisation policy, and how it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: I thought it had been established that we can't get docked points based on this appeael. Established or assumed? But yeah I thought that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Established or assumed? But yeah I thought that. Fair question. It's an assumption on my part based on what I read here at the time. It could be an assumption based on an assumption! RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: I thought it had been established that we can't get docked points based on this appeael. Technically, they reserve the right to do whatever they want to, so they could still deduct us points. The most likely and fair option is that, if we are found guilty we'll have to resubmit the figures using straight line amortisation. According to @Ghost of Clough(and he's not often wrong), the new figures would see us within the P&S limits for the seasons stated in the charge. So, as long as the stadium sale remains 'OK', we wouldn't be due a points deduction for breaching FFP/P&S. The slight hiccup is that we would probably fail P&S for the following season - but that would need a whole new charge. r_wilcockson and Ghost of Clough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, rynny said: It wasn't misleading. The only thing that we were found guilty on was that we didn't make it clear enough that we had changed our amortisation policy, and how it worked. I agree with that but isn’t the change in policy required to be disclosed in order to ensure the accounts are not misleading when compared with those of the prior year Without the disclosure you think you’re looking at ‘like for like ‘ but you’re not In other words I think we’re both right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: Technically, they reserve the right to do whatever they want to, so they could still deduct us points. The most likely and fair option is that, if we are found guilty we'll have to resubmit the figures using straight line amortisation. According to @Ghost of Clough(and he's not often wrong), the new figures would see us within the P&S limits for the seasons stated in the charge. So, as long as the stadium sale remains 'OK', we wouldn't be due a points deduction for breaching FFP/P&S. The slight hiccup is that we would probably fail P&S for the following season - but that would need a whole new charge. Surely retrospectively applying straight line amortisation works better for us? Gritstone Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 On 22/11/2020 at 14:12, Sith Happens said: While things are so cheery on here I wondered if anyone knows when the result of the EFLs appeal will be announced. I think its self isolating due to Covid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 34 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: I agree with that but isn’t the change in policy required to be disclosed in order to ensure the accounts are not misleading when compared with those of the prior year Without the disclosure you think you’re looking at ‘like for like ‘ but you’re not In other words I think we’re both right ? We did disclose it but it wasn't clear enough for the EFL or the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Why would they release their finding when they can derail another transfer window by delaying them? EtoileSportiveDeDerby, Will Hughes Hair and G STAR RAM 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 54 minutes ago, rynny said: We did disclose it but it wasn't clear enough for the EFL or the panel. Not looked at the judgement again but I did read it some while ago. I believe that the Panel found that the disclosure did not comply with the FRS and it’s clear that the club’s auditor’s evidence on the point was an utter train wreck. The EFL I think went further and claimed the accounts breached the statute. But the Panel didn’t go so far as to confirm that. It’s worrying: the EFL might take the view that even if we squeak by on the numbers, we tried to avoid scrutiny of the change in policy by failing to disclose it (adequately) and so we need to be punished. I’m not sure what punishment they can impose though, given the limited way the Panel expressed the ‘uphold’. I do wonder whether a sale of the club on decent terms is possible without this being resolved with the EFL in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, CornwallRam said: Technically, they reserve the right to do whatever they want to, so they could still deduct us points. The most likely and fair option is that, if we are found guilty we'll have to resubmit the figures using straight line amortisation. According to @Ghost of Clough(and he's not often wrong), the new figures would see us within the P&S limits for the seasons stated in the charge. So, as long as the stadium sale remains 'OK', we wouldn't be due a points deduction for breaching FFP/P&S. The slight hiccup is that we would probably fail P&S for the following season - but that would need a whole new charge. 2018 should be fine considering we had a £17.5m margin thanks to the stadium. I'd be concerned about 2019, but I assume this would require a new charge from the EFL, pushing any potential penalty into next season. 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Surely retrospectively applying straight line amortisation works better for us? It does going forward, but not for seasons before 19/20 CornwallRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 49 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Not looked at the judgement again but I did read it some while ago. I believe that the Panel found that the disclosure did not comply with the FRS and it’s clear that the club’s auditor’s evidence on the point was an utter train wreck. The EFL I think went further and claimed the accounts breached the statute. But the Panel didn’t go so far as to confirm that. It’s worrying: the EFL might take the view that even if we squeak by on the numbers, we tried to avoid scrutiny of the change in policy by failing to disclose it (adequately) and so we need to be punished. I’m not sure what punishment they can impose though, given the limited way the Panel expressed the ‘uphold’. I do wonder whether a sale of the club on decent terms is possible without this being resolved with the EFL in advance This is what was reported. The independent disciplinary tribunal did find that "the wording of the amortisation policy in Derby's financial statements could have been clearer". We didn't have an expert on the amortisation part as the EFL added that on last minute, it was the EFL'S experts that were car crashes. The EFL are contesting the whole of our amortisation policy, but, I don't think, it will be overturned as the rule is that amortisation has be systematic and ours is, as it is used throughout the world in accounting. Due to the ambiguous wording of the rule the EFL don't have a leg to stand on. The Scarlet Pimpernel and r_wilcockson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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