EFL appeal

[RadioactiveWaste]

34 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

EFL AGM expected soon to comment on Derby situation. Wycombe Wanderers say: "We have made representations to the EFL about what we think should happen. We have checked the rules and everything we have seen says there should be a points deduction and that it should be this season”

Trevor Stroud one of there directors it seems. From a couple of weeks ago. Must have missed it.  

Normal rules would indicate a team in 9th with 8 or 9 games of a season to go probably shouldn't get 6th place handed to them.

Wycombe have a corner to fight and you'd expect them to fight it, I'd expect us to if it was the other way round.

However, it's up to the DC,not Wycombe.

[NottsRam77]

28 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Wycombe have a corner to fight and you'd expect them to fight it, I'd expect us to if it was the other way round.

However, it's up to the DC,not Wycombe.

It’s got f all to do with Wycombe at the time of our alleged offence they were no where near the championship never mind dreaming of being in it 

they’re just trying to piggy back on the euphoria of social media in an attempt to get a reprieve  and another season in the championship 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by NottsRam77

[NottsRam77]

11 hours ago, ram59 said:

I think it's actually called the League Arbitration Panel, but, yes, it is independent of the EFL and God knows why it's taking so long.

Surely, when punishment, if any is given out, the continued suffering to the club, by this drawn out process needs to be taken into consideration, just as a convicted criminal's time spent in prison on remand is knocked off his sentence.

Iv said this also 

how long have we  been under an embargo for start of January window bar the final v rushed 24 hours 

we could counter them with damages 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

It’s got f all to do with Wycombe at the time of our alleged offence they were no where near the championship never mind dreaming of being in it 

they’re just trying to piggy back on the euphoria of social media in an attempt to get a reprieve  and another season in the championship 

 

It's not a right and wrong debate regardig wycombe, it's a "do we have a case that keeps us up at the expense of Derby, well, we've got to try it" it's not moral, it's legal/political corner to fight and they're doing just that.

[NottsRam77]

31 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

It's not a right and wrong debate regardig wycombe, it's a "do we have a case that keeps us up at the expense of Derby, well, we've got to try it" it's not moral, it's legal/political corner to fight and they're doing just that.

Exactly my point lol 

[Ghost of Clough]

9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

EFL AGM expected soon to comment on Derby situation. Wycombe Wanderers say: "We have made representations to the EFL about what we think should happen. We have checked the rules and everything we have seen says there should be a points deduction and that it should be this season”

Trevor Stroud one of there directors it seems. From a couple of weeks ago. Must have missed it.  

Normal rules would indicate a team in 9th with 8 or 9 games of a season to go probably shouldn't get 6th place handed to them.

I'm fairly certain the rules don't say it should be a points deduction in the 20/21 season.

In fact, the punishment is down to whatever the DC deem fit. They always side with precedent. In this instance, they'll be looking at the SWFC case, where the time of the season at which a decision was made determined which season the punishment would be handed out.

There can be no argument that the punishment should be in the same season as SWFC, as BCFC were also found guilty for the same 3 year period, but had their punishment in 19/20.

From the SWFC decision doc: “…our conclusion was that the combination of (i) the fact that had the 12-point deduction been imposed when, according to the general approach, it should have been (during the 2018-2019 season), the Club would not have faced relegation, (ii) the actual or perceived inconsistency of the EFL’s approach in the Derby County case and (iii) the potential effects of the delays caused by the bringing of the eventually dismissed Charge 2, makes it inappropriate to impose the deduction in the current extended season, but to postpone its effect until next season when the onus will be on the Club to redeem its position on the playing field.”

That last bit is the key part of that. The DC will not impose a P&S penalty in a season if there is no time to redeem that position. In the very unlikely scenario that they do, it will be appealed anyway.

 

Stop ?ing yourselves an accept we'll be in the Championship next season.

[Tamworthram]

20 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'm fairly certain the rules don't say it should be a points deduction in the 20/21 season.

In fact, the punishment is down to whatever the DC deem fit. They always side with precedent. In this instance, they'll be looking at the SWFC case, where the time of the season at which a decision was made determined which season the punishment would be handed out.

There can be no argument that the punishment should be in the same season as SWFC, as BCFC were also found guilty for the same 3 year period, but had their punishment in 19/20.

From the SWFC decision doc: “…our conclusion was that the combination of (i) the fact that had the 12-point deduction been imposed when, according to the general approach, it should have been (during the 2018-2019 season), the Club would not have faced relegation, (ii) the actual or perceived inconsistency of the EFL’s approach in the Derby County case and (iii) the potential effects of the delays caused by the bringing of the eventually dismissed Charge 2, makes it inappropriate to impose the deduction in the current extended season, but to postpone its effect until next season when the onus will be on the Club to redeem its position on the playing field.”

That last bit is the key part of that. The DC will not impose a P&S penalty in a season if there is no time to redeem that position. In the very unlikely scenario that they do, it will be appealed anyway.

 

Stop ?ing yourselves an accept we'll be in the Championship next season.

I agree and assume that’s why, for some (not sure if it’s all) points deductions there is a deadline for them to be applied. Something like the 4th Thursday in March.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Stop ?ing yourselves an accept we'll be in the Championship next season.

Completely agree.  The irony is the boro intervention might be the thing that pushed it into the next season. I’d like to think so 

[BOB BIGGS]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

 

Stop ?ing yourselves an accept we'll be in the Championship next season.

Oh Heck, now I am ?ing myself at the reality of that?

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'm fairly certain the rules don't say it should be a points deduction in the 20/21 season.

In fact, the punishment is down to whatever the DC deem fit. They always side with precedent. In this instance, they'll be looking at the SWFC case, where the time of the season at which a decision was made determined which season the punishment would be handed out.

There can be no argument that the punishment should be in the same season as SWFC, as BCFC were also found guilty for the same 3 year period, but had their punishment in 19/20.

From the SWFC decision doc: “…our conclusion was that the combination of (i) the fact that had the 12-point deduction been imposed when, according to the general approach, it should have been (during the 2018-2019 season), the Club would not have faced relegation, (ii) the actual or perceived inconsistency of the EFL’s approach in the Derby County case and (iii) the potential effects of the delays caused by the bringing of the eventually dismissed Charge 2, makes it inappropriate to impose the deduction in the current extended season, but to postpone its effect until next season when the onus will be on the Club to redeem its position on the playing field.”

That last bit is the key part of that. The DC will not impose a P&S penalty in a season if there is no time to redeem that position. In the very unlikely scenario that they do, it will be appealed anyway.

 

Stop ?ing yourselves an accept we'll be in the Championship next season.

good digging for the Wendy detail.  Let's hope they use that as precedent but firstly I hope there is no points penalty

[Sparkle]

10 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Wycombe have a corner to fight and you'd expect them to fight it, I'd expect us to if it was the other way round.

However, it's up to the DC,not Wycombe.

We did nothing about QPR walking all over the FFP when we missed out on promotion and the EFL let them - sure a fine some years later.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

We did nothing about QPR walking all over the FFP when we missed out on promotion and the EFL let them - sure a fine some years later.

yep how ironic it would be for us to be the only team punished in this way, @Ghost of Cloughhas got this right.  If they do this then we will be suing the league and the season won't start.

[Van der MoodHoover]

14 minutes ago, Spanish said:

yep how ironic it would be for us to be the only team punished in this way, @Ghost of Cloughhas got this right.  If they do this then we will be suing the league and the season won't start.

Wouldn't be the first time our season didn't start..... ??

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Wouldn't be the first time our season didn't start..... ??

Yea, we didn't really get in to top gear until two thirds of the way through last season.....

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

I am just done with this, do your worst EFL and move on to your next victims.

Sick of this rolling on and on, either step up and deliver a punishment. We can then appeal and we move on.

These clouds of uncertainty are weighing heavy and I for one am sick and tired of being the whipping boys for a select few. 
 

The club have bent the rules but not broken them unlike many others of the decades.

Let the EFL punish us to save face, they’re a vindictive and spiteful bunch and can never be found and proven to be inadequate. They keep on pushing until they receive some sort of victory no matter how big or small. 
 

Hit us with your best shot and then duck OFF to your next targets ????

[Woodley Ram]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'm fairly certain the rules don't say it should be a points deduction in the 20/21 season.

In fact, the punishment is down to whatever the DC deem fit. They always side with precedent. In this instance, they'll be looking at the SWFC case, where the time of the season at which a decision was made determined which season the punishment would be handed out.

There can be no argument that the punishment should be in the same season as SWFC, as BCFC were also found guilty for the same 3 year period, but had their punishment in 19/20.

From the SWFC decision doc: “…our conclusion was that the combination of (i) the fact that had the 12-point deduction been imposed when, according to the general approach, it should have been (during the 2018-2019 season), the Club would not have faced relegation, (ii) the actual or perceived inconsistency of the EFL’s approach in the Derby County case and (iii) the potential effects of the delays caused by the bringing of the eventually dismissed Charge 2, makes it inappropriate to impose the deduction in the current extended season, but to postpone its effect until next season when the onus will be on the Club to redeem its position on the playing field.”

That last bit is the key part of that. The DC will not impose a P&S penalty in a season if there is no time to redeem that position. In the very unlikely scenario that they do, it will be appealed anyway.

 

Stop ?ing yourselves an accept we'll be in the Championship next season.

Not sure if you can use the SWFC penalty as the benchmark for DCFC. Unless the realignment of the amortisation process takes us over the FFP then we can not have a penalty for FFP but can have one for not having an approved amortisation accounting practice. If we are inside of FFP ( and I have not seen any revised figures showing the answer) deducting loads of points would be excessive. Also if I remember correctly the sale of PP gave us £14m profit.

[BucksRam]

The irony is this whole thing has had such a detrimental affect on us already, including soft embargoes, no doubt negatively impacting any takeover, demoralising staff and players, on top if all the problems created by covid not least financially, you could argue we've been punished enough.  But the EFL won't or don't see it like that.  

[JfR]

23 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Not sure if you can use the SWFC penalty as the benchmark for DCFC. Unless the realignment of the amortisation process takes us over the FFP then we can not have a penalty for FFP but can have one for not having an approved amortisation accounting practice. If we are inside of FFP ( and I have not seen any revised figures showing the answer) deducting loads of points would be excessive. Also if I remember correctly the sale of PP gave us £14m profit.

I would say there is one way that the Wednesday verdict can be used as a benchmark, in that they were not given any punishment for their actual accounting, purely for the overspend after their accounts had been corrected. Hopefully the DC view the unacceptability of our amortisation policy in a similar light to how Wednesday's DC viewed the unacceptability of their backdating of the stadium sale, and view it as a potential trigger for a serious offence rather than a serious offence within its own right.

[Ghost of Clough]

46 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Not sure if you can use the SWFC penalty as the benchmark for DCFC. Unless the realignment of the amortisation process takes us over the FFP then we can not have a penalty for FFP but can have one for not having an approved amortisation accounting practice. If we are inside of FFP ( and I have not seen any revised figures showing the answer) deducting loads of points would be excessive. Also if I remember correctly the sale of PP gave us £14m profit.

Sure I can. SWFC didn't get a points deduction in 19/20 because of the lateness in the season at which a verdict was reached. The same would apply to us.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Ghost of Clough
Ps. Stadium sale was £40m profit

[Woodley Ram]

22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Sure I can. SWFC didn't get a points deduction in 19/20 because of the lateness in the season at which a verdict was reached. The same would apply to us.

That bit I agree with, but not the size of penalty