Ram-a-lama fa fa fa Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Please Derby win a game just to stop these stupid ducking threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said: Still overwhelmingly the vote is in favour of in. Want another poll Roy? 80% has now dropped to 60% for the 'In' side. That's quite a big swing over one month. I think most arguments for the in and out have been posted. I think in reality January is a big month, potential investment, Rooney, Cocu knows he has poor players so let's hope that he has some deals already lined up. We've played 24 games now, that's over half the season gone and we are nearly flirting with relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Remember that guy on the BBC news shouting "stop brexit" in the background outside Parliament every few minutes..... Bit like coming on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 i'm straddling the fence, yes it's uncomfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Mafiabob said: In. The sense of entitlement some gave here is borderline embarrassing. This echoes George Burleys reign for me. Took him 18 months to build a decent side (on a shoestring too). We nearly went down under a full season under him. It’s the same old people who wanted Rowett out because he played boring football. Yet I see folk berate Cocu, especially after Reading..... where we played ok, but it’s a results based business they reply..... pull out a lot of hypocritical quotes to that. Its the same people who harp back to the days of Mac 1. I loved that season. We have moved on. Go on, I've asked you this before and you never respond to me. Is it entitled to expect to see the team you pay to watch entertain you play a game which provides a few goals? Cos you always call our fans entitled, and I find that embarrassing, because paying £30 ticket prices to see a team actually play some decent stuff isn't entitled, that's the minimum expectation by my standards. Looking forward to you not responding to this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said: I'm of the opinion we stick with Cocu regardless this season. We need a rebuild, far too many false dawns before. Those calling for Mac 3 are delusional. Mac produced more than Cocu ever did. Better football, and better results. Hardly delusional. Mac shouldn't have been fired the first time, let alone the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I am really surprised Mel is staying patient. We have gone on two separate runs of seven games without a win. It’s only December! We have won 1 away game from 12 attempts in the league. We have won 6 league games from 24 - the same amount as ‘crisis clubs’ like Stoke, Boro, and Huddersfield that we were laughing at a few short months ago. We haven’t won back to back games all season long. In the last six games, we have the worst form in the division. And if you go back as far as 12 games, it’s very much bottom six form. People are saying calm down and trust in the plan. People are saying give Cocu more time and give him a chance to bring in his own players. This would make sense if he could blend new players with the strongest performing players from the current squad. But he is not actually getting the best out of a single player in this squad and not one of these players seems to grasp and actualise what he wants. So these many new signings will have to adjust quickly and be mightily impressive to counter that. I just look at it and think if you have a recruitment team of dubious standards and a manager who is already struggling to win over his group of players, what will magically change in January? Are the recruitment team suddenly going to recruit well? Are the players suddenly going to understand how to put into practice what the manager wants after months of being unable to do so? It seems very wishful thinking to me. August repeats itself and we give Cocu allowances to suss out his best team and the new signings time to gel. All of sudden it’s March or April. By which point, it could be too late. While other teams are slowly improving, we are getting worse and I just think it would be misguided and arrogant on our part to think Cocu is too good to take us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake the ram Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 So true.who would want to invest in this pile of s _ _ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 13 hours ago, Cam the Ram said: Plenty of people available or who we might be able to poach, Silva, Hughton, Adkins, Bowyer, Ainsworth etc .... whether or not they'd come or be successful is unknown, but Cocu has done nothing to suggest he's the right man to take us forward. The only arguments I've seen for him to stay is that he has a long contract so it would cost a lot to sack him (it would cost the club a lot to be relegated too if things get even worse under him), we need stability (fair enough argument, but with stability you'd hope to see gradual improvement and we've yet to see that) and some have stated he's giving young players a chance (he's been forced to through injuries and suspensions and hasn't used them anywhere near enough in my opinion). This is not true at all......how about give the bloke two windows to see if he can get some better players in giving him the chance to have the players that might suit his philosophy then if its still poor this time next season then there are no excuses.....to get rid of a manager without at least giving him that oppurtunity is ridiculous......Pep was'nt great in his first season nor was Klopp ...get a grip !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I actually think @RoyMac5 was right to start a new poll as I was also interested to see how much this really dire run had changed things. Nothing wrong with getting some perspective. I am also glad we seem to have finally learned our lessons, Schteve, Clement, Pearson, Rowett ...arriving to huge critical acclaim, then leaving under a barrage of 'thank God for that, hail the new king'... Maybe two years ago Cocu would have been sacked now, but we can see it just increases the uncertainty in the players, the churn of playing styles, the confusion in long term goals, the total mess in recruitment.. all the issues are compounded. I think that he is giving everyone a chance, seeing if they can cope with his vision and in the next month or two we will see that emerge more and players leave and others arrive who fit. Regardless, to develop a club ethos and bring youth players through takes time so we have to have faith he knows what he is doing and stick with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 If Cocu stays and i think he will January is a massive month for the club,yes we have Rooney to come in but i feel if Mel does not get his check book out and invest in three or four players we are looking at Div 1 football next season without a doubt,Barnsley and Stoke are picking up results and we are in free fall and lucky to pick up a point at Wigan these are worrying times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 7 hours ago, rammieib said: 80% has now dropped to 60% for the 'In' side. That's quite a big swing over one month. Not really, as this post has a 3rd option "don't know". Ignoring "don't knows" it's a 70/30 split. Or, you could have said that the "outs" has only increased from 20% to 26% despite continued poor results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCAR Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 hours ago, jake the ram said: So true.who would want to invest in this pile of s _ _ _ ..... thought you were gonna break out into a Spandau Ballet song then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Carnero said: Not really, as this post has a 3rd option "don't know". Ignoring "don't knows" it's a 70/30 split. Or, you could have said that the "outs" has only increased from 20% to 26% despite continued poor results. Yes really. 61% currently have him as an ‘in’ and are 100% behind him. That’s a fact right there. The out has gone from 20% to 26%. Also a fact - roughly 1-2% for each game played as I predicted on the other thread. Both facts show a steady decline for him but a serious % drop in those who have remained firmly behind him. I agree don’t know is a weak answer and shouldn’t be an option on the poll. One poll to the next is only consistent if the Q is the same. He will get a boost for instance by being forced not to play Lawrence next two games and assuming Flojo isn’t the replacement, we’re automatically stronger whoever he puts in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlad Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 8 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Quite true,it's easy to forget that economics rules all in football and that whilst Mel,no doubt,loves Derby,he loves his financial security more. Cocu is on borrowed time if the results don't take a swift upturn. Luckily for him,I don't think Mel will pull the trigger until the end of January when he has had a chance to view Rooney and Phil's new players in action. All this talk of new players in January. How many of us would give Cocu a penny if it was their own money. I wouldn’t trust him with a penny. Mel is in a difficult position, does he stick or twist. He’s given PC a 4 year deal so it would be very expensive to sack him. He could give him money to spend on new players but will he get the best out of them with some very negative possession based football. He could invest nothing and risk relegation which is now becoming a very real possibility. FWIW I do not think the current squad is that bad, we should be at least upper/mid table even allowing for injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Still no option for Cocu to shake it all about, I see! Half Poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 14 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: None of our strikers could make a silk purse out of the creative midfield/wide players Cocu sets up. All looked poor. Marriott today - played out wide ffs. Lawrence isn't a winger/wideman. Holmes is barely a footballer yet he stays on over Sibley. Sibley who gets dropped for Whittaker, who isn't ready but takes Knights place who needs experience. Nope sorry we are NOT as bad as Cocu has us looking, not by a long chalk. That^. A good manager can make a poor side look ok. A poor manager can make good players look like a shambles. We look like a complete shambles. So Cocu is “working with the entire Club” as some poster has remarked; meanwhile the first team ship is sinking, and is losing to teams lower than us in the table. We looked poor compared to Wigan yesterday who are bottom of the Championship. But that’s ok because Cocu is here for the long-term and at some hazy and undefined point in future will suddenly turn us around and stop playing the wrong players and will start making the team understand what on earth he is trying to do with his “false wingers” and setting us up to counteract the opposition rather than having a bold and courageous game plan which means playing our game and actually beating a team. Can other people not see the player demoralisation? The empty rallying cries from players {“we go again”} as we slip and slide away. Can others not see how the style of play actually “helps” the opposition to overpower us deep in our own half? An 11 year old can tell you that Marriott needs somebody to play off yet is constantly played on his own up front. We know that Chris Martin needs players around him to feed yet he’s played as a lone striker and made to toil against centre halves alone. At some point people may realise that reputation alone does not win football matches but by then we’ll be in League 1. That currently is where we are headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, chadlad said: All this talk of new players in January. How many of us would give Cocu a penny if it was their own money. I wouldn’t trust him with a penny. Mel is in a difficult position, does he stick or twist. He’s given PC a 4 year deal so it would be very expensive to sack him. He could give him money to spend on new players but will he get the best out of them with some very negative possession based football. He could invest nothing and risk relegation which is now becoming a very real possibility. FWIW I do not think the current squad is that bad, we should be at least upper/mid table even allowing for injuries. I'm not disagreeing with you chadlad,I'm far from convinced that cocu is going to be able to turn this around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I didn’t want to add to what I see as an unnecessary and unhelpful topic, but here goes. Reason I want to jump in is I keep seeing X was sacked for less comments, now if you only believe managers are fired on results then I can understand why some are confused Cocu is still in the job. Maybe, just maybe the club were being honest and the sackings were not based solely on results? It’s been a rough start for Cocu, the table doesn’t lie despite what Johnathan Woodgate says, and Colin Gibson interviewing Cocu pre Wigan really didn’t want to use injuries as an excuse but anyone should be able to see they have hit us hard, bringing through the youth has probably been forced a little earlier than what Cocu would have liked. Do we even need reminding of the off the field incident and the summer of will he or won’t he which took us right down to the wire. Must sit back at night and wonder what on earth he has taken on, and rather than give him time, support and understanding, we’re asking each week if he should get the boot. I do understand it, even if I don’t like it, the average tenure of a football manager these days is incredibly short, football fans have followed the trend in wanting rid. Twitter yesterday the #LampardOut hashtag was popular once again, they are 4th in the Premier League where many were talking about being happy with mid table and bringing through the youth but lose to Southampton...no no, pack your bags Frank. We’re in a similar situation, albeit lower in the table than what is comfortable, all summer we knew this season could be a rough ride and when the suns out, babyshams are flowing we’re all good with it.....until reality hits. It’s hard, some of you work long hours, pouring hard earned money into matchday tickets, you want to be entertained for that money but unfortunately entertainment has never been guaranteed. But I get it. I don’t get the radio listeners so much hammering us as the final whistle goes and whilst no fan should ever be denied an opinion, at least wait until the highlights are up rather than base your rants from the eyes of 2 other fans. We’ve had an incredible run really, fighting at the top of the table for what 5 years? How many clubs do you see consistently up there for that period of time yet we behave like we’ve the most suffering fan base in England whilst clubs like Bolton which have spent far longer in the Premier League than us were on the brink of not having a club at all to support a couple of months ago! We’re a club that like it or not IS in transition, and bringing in another new manager is not the answer as it will only prolong that task by resetting us again. If the club are happy and trust Cocu to rebuild this team, however hard it is standing on a cold terrace in Wigan, get behind him which to be fair sat at home in my hungover state yesterday could hear the 4,000+ Derby fans all game, fair play to every one of you, did our club proud in what is a difficult time. Right now the last thing this club needs is toxicity building online which will transfer into the stands over time, Cocu might not be the one, this might be destined to fail but give him a chance, a fair chance with a transfer window to work in. Let’s not forget we have England’s all time top goal scorer pulling on a Derby shirt next month, suffering my arse, there are green eyes all over the Championship over that deal, and whilst we shouldn’t put all the pressure on Rooney’s shoulders, there is not a chance he won’t lift this team with his presence and I can’t honestly wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, David said: Let’s not forget we have England’s all time top goal scorer pulling on a Derby shirt next month, suffering my arse, there are green eyes all over the Championship over that deal, and whilst we shouldn’t put all the pressure on Rooney’s shoulders, there is not a chance he won’t lift this team with his presence and I can’t honestly wait. Rooney is a great deal. Fortunately for us he'll both create and score the goals! Well that is if Cocu doesn't play him as one of two DMs. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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