New: Manager or not

[Coneheadjohn]

7 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said:

Was he not sacked after Brighton?

About 3 weeks after Bristol,I stand corrected.

Still blame my lads.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

Well who else’s would it be?

in my opinion

There's a difference between stating someone is talking sense as their opinion conforms with your beliefs and someone actually talking sense.

In my opinion naturally 

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

Well who else’s would it be?

in my opinion

There's a difference between stating someone is talking sense as their opinion conforms with your beliefs and someone actually talking sense.

In my opinion naturally 

[Mafiabob]

11 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

In your opinion you forgot to add

My opinion is what matters ?

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Sacking a manager a day or two before the transfer window, when the squad is so lacking, would be absolutely hilarious

Not really. If you had lost total confidence in said manager for example then it would be the totally appropriate course of action.

[angieram]

I'd like to keep him and see what he can acheive with a couple of transfer windows under his belt and a run with Rooney in the team.

Nothing changed for me since the first poll.

What I do think will change - and quite drastically- is the team. If I know that, there are players currently on the pitch who probably already know their days are numbered. No surprise then that we're playing like some players already have one foot out of the door.

[nfb]

42 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

Since Nigel Clough (who served for 4yrs 10mths) our longest serving manager since Jim Smith (bless him), we have made 9 changes of running the team in less than 6yrs. During that time we have had wholesale changes in player personnel reached two play off finals and two semi-final play offs. Mel is running a club where we have diced with FFP, by him buying the stadium. We have a lot of players out of contract by the end of this season. We have a manager who came in late on taking over from Frank. We have had either currently injured or previously injured during this season= Wisdom, Beilik, Clarke, Bogle, Shinnie, Evans, Holmes, Anya, Huddlestone, Waghorn, Marriott and Bennett. We had Forsyth pushed into the 1st team after a long lay off. We have lost Keogh, including the disruption of the Lawrence/Bennett court case. I also would'nt be surprised that some of the players that have come in under Cocu were last minute deals/decisions made by others at the club. I would like to see an overall of the scouting system, because since Nigel Clough's time we have not plucked a gem from other teams and I am referring to players who made their name at Derby having been an unknown previously.

Changing manager is not going to solve the problem, we will be taking one step forward and two back. The club can't afford it, thats why Rowett jumped ship. We don't have the fianance to spend heavy in the transfer market and we certianly cannot afford to keep changing managers. I can understand the frustration and anger of us not making the progress and getting to the promised land in the Premier league. Last season we were spoiled, we had in Mount, Tomori and Wilson top class players all now regular squad players with their national sides. We were never going to replace them with like for like players. This is our transitional season, we can't throw the youngsters in the deep end straight away and see men against boys, we would be in a relegation dog fight. Cocu needs to ease them in gently, its a tough division the championship and I am certain Wayne will find out very shortly. Give Cocu this transfer window, the rest of the season to get used to being in the toughest league in the world. Give him the summer, with another transfer window with next season seeing some more of the current youth stepping up into the 1st team as a regular squad players.                                           BY THE WAY I'M STICKING FOR AT LEAST THIS TIME NEXT YEAR

Thanks Plymouth,  saved me saying all that again... 

Glad to see almost 60% want him to stay.

I'm for him staying too btw,  till next year could be 6 days lol.... Only after he's had the summer window for me and played some half dozen games with that squad can we truly judge, so until Autumn 2020 for me. 

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, Mafiabob said:

My opinion is what matters ?

You're certainly portraying that. So far today you've said that the people who have a differing opinion to you have a sense of entitlement that's borderline embarrassing and they can't comprehend sense. We're all Derby fans and want the best for the club, but as is the beauty of football we have different ideas on the best way to achieve success. There's no need to get all petty about it mate, you're better than that.

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Not really. If you had lost total confidence in said manager for example then it would be the totally appropriate course of action.

Waste two weeks of the window farting around getting a new manager in, miss out on your targets etc etc

(I appreciate that is better than providing backing to the wrong manager but still ridiculous)

I am firmly Cocu in anyway. I am slightly disappointed with what he is getting out of the current players. But I am much more disappointed with the state the squad has been left in as a result of decisions made by our previous two managers. 
 

I strongly believe that given two years at least, Cocu will have us in a much much better place than he found us

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

What I do think will change - and quite drastically- is the team...No surprise then that we're playing like some players already have one foot out of the door.

Who will want them or why aren't they playing for a contract?

[FlyBritishMidland]

39 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

Since Nigel Clough (who served for 4yrs 10mths) our longest serving manager since Jim Smith (bless him), we have made 9 changes of running the team in less than 6yrs. During that time we have had wholesale changes in player personnel reached two play off finals and two semi-final play offs. Mel is running a club where we have diced with FFP, by him buying the stadium. We have a lot of players out of contract by the end of this season. We have a manager who came in late on taking over from Frank. We have had either currently injured or previously injured during this season= Wisdom, Beilik, Clarke, Bogle, Shinnie, Evans, Holmes, Anya, Huddlestone, Waghorn, Marriott and Bennett. We had Forsyth pushed into the 1st team after a long lay off. We have lost Keogh, including the disruption of the Lawrence/Bennett court case. I also would'nt be surprised that some of the players that have come in under Cocu were last minute deals/decisions made by others at the club. I would like to see an overall of the scouting system, because since Nigel Clough's time we have not plucked a gem from other teams and I am referring to players who made their name at Derby having been an unknown previously.

Changing manager is not going to solve the problem, we will be taking one step forward and two back. The club can't afford it, thats why Rowett jumped ship. We don't have the fianance to spend heavy in the transfer market and we certianly cannot afford to keep changing managers. I can understand the frustration and anger of us not making the progress and getting to the promised land in the Premier league. Last season we were spoiled, we had in Mount, Tomori and Wilson top class players all now regular squad players with their national sides. We were never going to replace them with like for like players. This is our transitional season, we can't throw the youngsters in the deep end straight away and see men against boys, we would be in a relegation dog fight. Cocu needs to ease them in gently, its a tough division the championship and I am certain Wayne will find out very shortly. Give Cocu this transfer window, the rest of the season to get used to being in the toughest league in the world. Give him the summer, with another transfer window with next season seeing some more of the current youth stepping up into the 1st team as a regular squad players.                                           BY THE WAY I'M STICKING FOR AT LEAST THIS TIME NEXT YEAR

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.  We need stability.  We need a manager who has the long term future in mind with a plan to deliver.  I believe Cocu is that man.  Short term-ism gets you nowhere.  You could argue that’s what we’ve had for the last few years, managers who spent big or had expensive loans chasing the dream.

I’ve said before that sometimes you have to take step back to move forward and I stand by it.

[cannable]

45 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

I seriously expect that, despite the injuries, our team can do better than 1 goal and point from the past 7 away games. I'd expect us to have more than 1 away win this season and I'd expect us to not have the 2nd worst attack in the league. We're not creating many chances, giving away chances easily and there's no sign of improvement. I'm all for finally having a bit of stability, but I genuinely can't see any signs that Cocu is going to turn us around. There's not a single player in this team who has improved from last season, so why does everyone suddenly expect him to go out and find signings who will fit his system and improve us. If he can't improve a single player (minus maybe Knight who only got a chance through injuries) from the 28 he's used in the league this season, is it really that smart to allow him to bring in a whole new group of players to a team already treading a fine line with FFP, when there's very little evidence he'll improve them and thus the value of them? Honestly, just think how crazy that is .... 28 players used in the league this season and minus the youngsters who weren't involved last year, no one has actually gotten better. 

See now this is where we get philosophical. 

Managers don’t improve footballers. They give them the opportunity to flourish. Bulking up aside, you are the player you will be at 18. Arsene Wenger can convey this more intelligently than me; 

“You build a player like you build a house. The basis of the player is the technique, and you get that between seven and 14 years of age. If you have no technical skill at 14, you will never be a football player. Then the first floor is the physical aspect, unfortunately that is decided between 14 and 17, where you see if they will be quick enough and strong enough.

The second floor is the tactical aspect; does he understand the game? How can I relate to you if you have the ball, do I understand where to go? Then the final part that is decided at 18 or 19 years of age is ‘How much do I want to be successful?’. ‘Am I ready not to go to the disco on Friday night because I want to have a good game on Saturday? That’s what I call the roof, and if you have no roof, it rains in.”
 

You improve players by giving them the opportunity to flourish. You fit them into a system that gets the best out of them and you cover everybody’s strengths and weaknesses as much as possible and we just don’t have the players. 

You coach players how to play your system but sometimes this isn’t necessarily within their capabilities. We abandoned playing from the back because Davies and Fozzy can’t but we don’t have the midfield to win second balls and no amount of coaching will change that. 

[Uptherams]

10 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

I seriously expect that, despite the injuries, our team can do better than 1 goal and point from the past 7 away games. I'd expect us to have more than 1 away win this season and I'd expect us to not have the 2nd worst attack in the league. We're not creating many chances, giving away chances easily and there's no sign of improvement. I'm all for finally having a bit of stability, but I genuinely can't see any signs that Cocu is going to turn us around. There's not a single player in this team who has improved from last season, so why does everyone suddenly expect him to go out and find signings who will fit his system and improve us. If he can't improve a single player (minus maybe Knight who only got a chance through injuries) from the 28 he's used in the league this season, is it really that smart to allow him to bring in a whole new group of players to a team already treading a fine line with FFP, when there's very little evidence he'll improve them and thus the value of them? Honestly, just think how crazy that is .... 28 players used in the league this season and minus the youngsters who weren't involved last year, no one has actually gotten better. 

Good points. I would have liked a long term manager but I now feel that we may lose more than we could gain with Cocu in charge overseeing this transition. We all believe that significant funds will be made available, some already have as Bielik reportedly cost £9.5m. We have 4 season long loans and for one reason or another, none are working out, injury included. Despite our injuries and every club get's them, we have a good side for this league. A side under performing significantly. 

The issues regarding Keogh, Lawrence and Bennett are significant too. In that case the manager in charge, whoever it may have been, would have been put in a bad position regardless of what they chose to do, or not do. That matter alone could mean we need a manager who hasn't been sullied and caught up in such a mess. 

He has many likeable characteristics and his calm is refreshing, but there comes a point when you need motivation and action. Someone to inspire one way or another. 

These next 6 games are massive. Never-mind performances, if we can't even come away with 9 points in the next 6 matches, we could be in big trouble. It's true that had just a few results gone differently, we could be in a significantly better place, but we haven't deserved it. There are many fans of teams around us that can say we were robbed in this and that match. Not us. 

[Remy the hare]

Coco had been dealt a terrible hand with everything since July and I think he and us underestimated the job he has been given. I have always thought phil could be a Daniel Farke type character but I’m starting to doubt as we are getting closer and closer to the relegation zone which is terrible to say where have been in recent seasons. I agree with the posters saying chopping and changing the manager is mindless and I don’t know the financials with coco but I’d move him on and if Chris Hughton is willing and available I’d give him the job ☹️

[Uptherams]

10 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

You're certainly portraying that. So far today you've said that the people who have a differing opinion to you have a sense of entitlement that's borderline embarrassing and they can't comprehend sense. We're all Derby fans and want the best for the club, but as is the beauty of football we have different ideas on the best way to achieve success. There's no need to get all petty about it mate, you're better than that.

I'm finding the people who are actually being irrational are the ones stubbornly saying he should stay as manager and just pretending there is no valid criticism or analysis. People wanting the manager to stay or go isn't such a black and white question. I only changed my mind today and I would have to see significant changes to flip back. There are many fans right now who are just a few games away from changing their minds too about the managers position. 

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who will want them or why aren't they playing for a contract?

That's a good question and one that I don't know the answer to, RoyMac. 

I am disappointed by the lack of skill this year, but largely I don't see lack of effort. One or two are really at the end of their Championship careers, others just don't fit the system we are trying to play. I suspect we will have most of them until the end of the season so they've time to put a bit more effort in before then! Remember how some never wanted to see Johnson in a Derby shirt again this time last season but how useful his battling performances were in those last few games. 

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

I'm finding the people who are actually being irrational are the ones stubbornly saying he should stay as manager and just pretending there is no valid criticism or analysis. People wanting the manager to stay or go isn't such a black and white question. I only changed my mind today and I would have to see significant changes to flip back. There are many fans right now who are just a few games away from changing their minds too about the managers position. 

This. Defending someone irrationally does little to progress valid debate on this forum and makes people become more and more entrenched and unwilling to accept the reality of the situation. 

 

[Pearl Ram]

So the poll is showing Cocu in at a ratio of 2 to 1, does it stay open until the out boys overtake the ins ?

[Danelaw Rams]

We were 90 minutes away from the the premiership under Lampard.  I didn't expect anything the same this season with the loan players we have lost.  But we are the worst team in the division at moment in my opinion,  if it wasn't for the points Martin has gained us we would be rock bottom.  Cocu didn't rediscover Martin , he sort of accidentally stumbled across him! And certainly can't take any managerial credit for it. It definitely wouldn't be a kneejerk reaction to sack cocu, he has massively underachieved here at Derby. If it wasn't for his name, anyone else would of already been sacked . He hasn't got a clue about the championship and the players don't seem to have a clue what there supposed to be doing. I certainly wouldn't trust him with any transfer money we may have. This is just my honest opinion, But I love this football club and will continue to support the team .

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Pearl Ram said:

So the poll is showing Cocu in at a ratio of 2 to 1, does it stay open until the out boys overtake the ins ?

Will it then?