cannable Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 51 minutes ago, Jourdan said: Our worst run of the season coincided with Mount’s spell on the sidelines, that is fair to say. But does that mean Mount made all the difference? Mount had a creditable season, but I think some people overstate his influence. He had plenty of poor games and plenty of games where his influence was peripheral. Thought his performances were overrated. His passing was sloppy and his final ball was inconsistent (something I said at the time and he’s now being criticised for now by Chelsea fans). He can go to the top, but his performances didn’t match his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Cam the Ram said: You've just compared our situation with Cocu, flirting with a relegation battle, to Pep and Klopp's first seasons in the Prem and are telling me to get a grip? And didn't you make a serious suggestion just a few days ago that we should try and sign Bowen on a permanent deal in January? And I should get a grip .... ? yes i am saying get a grip Pep and Klopp came to England with a much higher pedigree than Cocu but took time to settle and get used to what was required in English football ....you seem to try and simplify the situation and opinions by saying its all because he's on a long term deal...how about giving him the tools to change things..Cocu has seen whats needed and can now hopefully recruit better players but you're saying thanks for having a go but see ya without getting new players in meaning this first half of the season has been a total waste of time .....and do what next exactly ? appoint another manager who can come in and spend jan assessing our squad so another window goes by...then what if a new manager is just as bad with this bunch ?? sack him as well ??? then you can guarantee league one football...how about give him a chance then assess it next season ?? might be a good idea As for Bowen unless you didnt take the time to read my original response in which i said i'd had a few beers i will repeat myself again for your benefit.....although my post was a bit beer fuelled and was a nice wishlist it was none the less after a heavy session out with my mates lol but.... i beleive we could get Bowen for 10-15m ( perhaps offset it by putting Marriott in the deal ) i do not think Bowen will go for 25m as i do not see any prem teams paying that much for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelaw Rams Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 52 minutes ago, Ellafella said: In a sense the “Rooney as player” is a strong indicator of just how grim {or not} things are. If we suddenly start scoring more goals and winning more games and moving up the table it will “legitimise” Cocu; If we continue in decline it will indicate just how dire things have become. My own view is that one player will not turn things around. Rooney has been present for a few weeks now and if anything our performances have become even more turgid and lacklustre; but of course I will hold my hands up and say if I’m wrong. I really hope your right about Rooney coming in and turning things around. But this is about Cocu as a manager, The Rooney deal and the the fact that he is here has nothing to do with Cocu, and everything to do with Mel Morris . We as fans are emotionally attached to the club, Mel Morris is a fan but also financial attached , He is the most positive thing we have at the club, and long may that continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 27 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: If your definition of struggling is being 3rd in the Premiership after half a season played then we have different definitions of the word. If that is struggling how would you define our current tribulations. Klopp did introduce his high tempo pressing style from the offset at Liverpool, compare and contrast the style Cocu is trying to implement which genuinely I can't even try and describe or even say what he is meant to be implementing to the casual observer. And please don't mention Farke at Norwich. So why do you think a team that won the league by amassing such a high number of points are now so far behind Liverpool ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, Jourdan said: People mention the two most successful managers in England - Klopp and Guardiola - needing time to get it right. But they also needed a lot of money too! Even if you scale that down to Championship level, it is asking for the kind of investment we are unlikely to be able to provide. I get the impression Cocu doesn’t have the luxury. And if he does, would you trust him - with only 6 months of experience in English football - and the recruitment team to identify the right kind of players to remedy the situation? This is why you need a manager who knows the division and can get the best out of what he has. They needed a lot of money to compete at the top of the PL, we are in a league below. What they all needed was time to implement their philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 1 minute ago, AdamRam said: So why do you think a team that won the league by amassing such a high number of points are now so far behind Liverpool ? Man City are third in the league, we have historically made the Top 6 over the past few seasons and now find ourselves flirting with relegation. Let's compare apples with apples. If Guardiola is struggling then by the same definition Cocu is having an absolutely atrocious, abysmal season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Man City are third in the league, we have historically made the Top 6 over the past few seasons and now find ourselves flirting with relegation. Let's compare apples with apples. If Guardiola is struggling then by the same definition Cocu is having an absolutely atrocious, abysmal season. You seem to be avoiding the question, why are Man City so far behind Liverpool in you opinion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Man City are third in the league, we have historically made the Top 6 over the past few seasons and now find ourselves flirting with relegation. Let's compare apples with apples. If Guardiola is struggling then by the same definition Cocu is having an absolutely atrocious, abysmal season. name your best side with who we have available and tell me if you think that is top 6 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marriot Ram99 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 16 hours ago, Justa said: Well one thing is obvious and that’s Cocu is dividing the fans ! I’m somewhere between the ‘sack him now’ brigade and the ‘keep him even if he takes us down to League 2 because he is the messiah’ group. I feel uncomfortable with both extremes - we can’t keep sacking managers yet Phil has done absolutely nothing, zilch, zero, diddly squat to convince me he has a clue how to manage a Championship football team. I think the only way I will definitely shout ‘Cocu out’ is if we go into the bottom 3... Problem is if Mel only acts if we get into the bottom 3 it could be too little too late, even though I voted sack him I would change that to give him 1 more game , if we loose vs Charlton at home or draw playing in a piss poor manner that is when it will be time to sack him as then we really will be in relegation trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBritishMidland Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 52 minutes ago, chadlad said: Hang on, are you seriously comparing us with Bury and Macclesfield. I would go with Coventry, Bolton, Sunderland, Portsmouth and others who have found themselves in a downward spiral. Not comparing, just giving my view on what oblivion means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Paul71 said: That is quite a serious statement to make from someone within the club. If true it explains why half of them don't seem bothered at times....needs a sort out and guess what? I reckon thats in progress right now ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, S8TY said: name your best side with who we have available and tell me if you think that is top 6 ? I don't believe this squad is bottom 6 which is where we find ourselves at the moment And pedants before you start posting I accept that we are tied with Boro for the bottom 6th spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 21 minutes ago, Danelaw Rams said: I really hope your right about Rooney coming in and turning things around. But this is about Cocu as a manager, The Rooney deal and the the fact that he is here has nothing to do with Cocu, and everything to do with Mel Morris . We as fans are emotionally attached to the club, Mel Morris is a fan but also financial attached , He is the most positive thing we have at the club, and long may that continue! Agree. Then again Mel gave an unproven {in English football} manager an atypically long contract. He also did the same with Mr Clement. So Mel has yet again painted himself into a corner...Sack Cocu and Mel proves himself wrong, stick with Cocu and if we fail, Mel is wrong again. Oh the uncomfortable pirch high upon the sharp horns of that dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, AdamRam said: You seem to be avoiding the question, why are Man City so far behind Liverpool in you opinion ? Liverpool are carrying on the momentum from last season where they quite unluckily in my opinion failed to win the Premiership title and have quite clearly built on last season performances and carried this through to this season. We as a club have patently regressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, S8TY said: yes i am saying get a grip Pep and Klopp came to England with a much higher pedigree than Cocu but took time to settle and get used to what was required in English football ....you seem to try and simplify the situation and opinions by saying its all because he's on a long term deal...how about giving him the tools to change things..Cocu has seen whats needed and can now hopefully recruit better players but you're saying thanks for having a go but see ya without getting new players in meaning this first half of the season has been a total waste of time .....and do what next exactly ? appoint another manager who can come in and spend jan assessing our squad so another window goes by...then what if a new manager is just as bad with this bunch ?? sack him as well ??? then you can guarantee league one football...how about give him a chance then assess it next season ?? might be a good idea As for Bowen unless you didnt take the time to read my original response in which i said i'd had a few beers i will repeat myself again for your benefit.....although my post was a bit beer fuelled and was a nice wishlist it was none the less after a heavy session out with my mates lol but.... i beleive we could get Bowen for 10-15m ( perhaps offset it by putting Marriott in the deal ) i do not think Bowen will go for 25m as i do not see any prem teams paying that much for him I'm not simplifying the situations and people's opinions at all and have repeatedly responded to people with why I think he isn't the right man for the job. As I originally said (which you seem to have ignored half of), the reasons I've seen people give for Cocu staying is both his long contract AND needing stability, I.E giving him multiple transfer windows, just like you stated. I've responded with my opinion, which is that he hasn't got a single player performing better than they did last season, so I'm not sure letting him splash the cash is the most sensible thing to do given we're already pushing our luck with FFP. The squad we have isn't great admittedly, but at his disposal he has a handful of talented players and a striking trio that includes two players who have over 100 Championship goals between them and another who was 1 of the most in demand football league strikers just 18 months ago. Yet here were are, not far off the bottom 3 and are the 2nd lowest scorers in the league. A large part of that is down to the players of course, but his team selections and tactics have regularly raised eyebrows and not delivered. Regardless of the injuries and off-field problems, I still believe the team at his disposal is massively under-performing and so don't believe it would be sensible to give him multiple transfer windows to presumably spend a large sum of money when as of right now he's struggling to get anything out of the current team. I do agree with you and the others that we will improve after he's made some signings of his own, but I'm a glass half empty kind of person and on the evidence of the past 5 months of football, I personally just don't believe he is the right manager for this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Just now, Tyler Durden said: Liverpool are carrying on the momentum from last season where they quite unluckily in my opinion failed to win the Premiership title and have quite clearly built on last season performances and carried this through to this season. We as a club have patently regressed. Still avoided the question, why haven't Man City carried on that momentum, the rams are 12 points off where they were last season, city 13 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 hours ago, rammieib said: The out has gone from 20% to 26%. Also a fact - roughly 1-2% for each game played as I predicted on the other thread. If you want go play that game then the "out" has now dropped from 26% to 25%, the percentage of outs is falling on a daily basis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlad Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, Coolascustard said: Not comparing, just giving my view on what oblivion means. I suppose it depends on how far and for how long you follow the downward spiral... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Still avoided the question, why haven't Man City carried on that momentum, the rams are 12 points off where they were last season, city 13 ? This is getting tedious now no offense, it's clear you want to steer me to the answer you are seeking so it might be easier to tell me what you would like me to say if it then furthers your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Cam the Ram said: I'm not simplifying the situations and people's opinions at all and have repeatedly responded to people with why I think he isn't the right man for the job. As I originally said (which you seem to have ignored half of), the reasons I've seen people give for Cocu staying is both his long contract AND needing stability, I.E giving him multiple transfer windows, just like you stated. I've responded with my opinion, which is that he hasn't got a single player performing better than they did last season, so I'm not sure letting him splash the cash is the most sensible thing to do given we're already pushing our luck with FFP. The squad we have isn't great admittedly, but at his disposal he has a handful of talented players and a striking trio that includes two players who have over 100 Championship goals between them and another who was 1 of the most in demand football league strikers just 18 months ago. Yet here were are, not far off the bottom 3 and are the 2nd lowest scorers in the league. A large part of that is down to the players of course, but his team selections and tactics have regularly raised eyebrows and not delivered. Regardless of the injuries and off-field problems, I still believe the team at his disposal is massively under-performing and so don't believe it would be sensible to give him multiple transfer windows to presumably spend a large sum of money when as of right now he's struggling to get anything out of the current team. I do agree with you and the others that we will improve after he's made some signings of his own, but I'm a glass half empty kind of person and on the evidence of the past 5 months of football, I personally just don't believe he is the right manager for this club. Fair points Cam and well put....his decisions have baffled me too there are some good players here of course but just think something is not right and was maybe held together better with Keogh,Wilson,Mount,Temori and i'm going to include Nugent ( as i heard he was very good in the changing room and to have around generally ) I would just like to see Cocu given the windows then judged again as this will take away any excuses, if he is sorting the club from top to bottom that is a massive task in itself but then begs the question would he had been better as a director of football......sad times at the moment but hopefully better in the new year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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