New: Manager or not

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

So the poll is showing Cocu in at a ratio of 2 to 1, does it stay open until the out boys overtake the ins ?

Or until we are relegated?

We can then say that everyone liked cocu's policies but bizarrely we went down to league one in spite of that.

[Pearl Ram]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Will it then?

Can’t say for sure, the crystal ball’s packed up. 

[Pearl Ram]

8 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Or until we are relegated?

We can then say that everyone liked cocu's policies but bizarrely we went down to league one in spite of that.

Oh duck off.

[cannable]

12 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Or until we are relegated?

We can then say that everyone liked cocu's policies but bizarrely we went down to league one in spite of that.

Without Osman we would have under Burley. 

The players can be poo and the manager good. It is possible.

[GB SPORTS]

36 minutes ago, angieram said:

I'd like to keep him and see what he can acheive with a couple of transfer windows under his belt and a run with Rooney in the team.

Nothing changed for me since the first poll.

What I do think will change - and quite drastically- is the team. If I know that, there are players currently on the pitch who probably already know their days are numbered. No surprise then that we're playing like some players already have one foot out of the door.

Thanks for talking some sense Angie.

[ColonelBlimp]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

This. Defending someone irrationally does little to progress valid debate on this forum and makes people become more and more entrenched and unwilling to accept the reality of the situation. 

 

Unwilling to accept your reading of the situation? 

I, for one, think Cocu should stay, to carry on with the job he's been employed to do., a job that will take time and player changes to accomplish. 

A remit on bringing the best of our youth through whilst clearing out the highly paid dead wood with no resale value. 

I do not think we will be relegated and I do think crying for the managers head when things are tough is ridiculous. 

Like a strong marriage, you stick together when times are tough, you then enjoy the better times together. 

Is that irrational enough for you? 

[AutoWindscreens]

4 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Something bonkers like Mac 3 and Rooney or get the brown envelopes out and get Redknapp.

You're quite right, that would be insane.

[LeedsCityRam]

Encouraging that the majority of fans are still prepared to give Cocu time, despite the results. I suspect many folk are tiring of the constant changes & want to see if someone with a solid managerial pedigree can rebuild the club. There are no easy fixes with a squad this limited & unbalanced.

January is going to be a crucial month what with Rooney starting, a good run of fixtures and the potential to tweak the playing squad. We could have a very different mindset in a few weeks time.

 

[Oldben]

https://www.thetotallyfootballshow.com/feature/does-phillip-cocus-failure-at-fenerbahce-mean-hell-fail-at-Derby-county/

A sign of things to come before he joined the rams.

 

[MaltRam]

We will be fine...FINE. Cocu has not become a bad manager, especially by some random co-incidence since he lost his captain, and his entire midfield.

[Mafiabob]

1 hour ago, Cam the Ram said:

You're certainly portraying that. So far today you've said that the people who have a differing opinion to you have a sense of entitlement that's borderline embarrassing and they can't comprehend sense. We're all Derby fans and want the best for the club, but as is the beauty of football we have different ideas on the best way to achieve success. There's no need to get all petty about it mate, you're better than that.

Come on, can’t you see I don’t take myself seriously, that’s the point, I’ll quite happily I admit I’m wrong and will gladly take on the chin and admit it on here.....

The point I’m trying to make is a fair few on here will never admit being wrong on varying points over time, and it’s amazing the hypocrisy you see. Some will even double down even though they are proven to be wrong.

What I’m trying to say to anyone, no one is better than the other with their points. Sometimes you’re right, sometimes you’re wrong..... it’s ok to admit it. Everyone knows my story pretty much, if people don’t like what I think, fair enough,  I’ll never hold a grudge ever.

Last person you’ll see whose petty. Probably the humblest guy on here..... genuinely 

 

[IslandExile]

I'm now finding this whole discussion depressing. It's been rehashed so many times now - by both sides. 

Despite the cynical launching of this second vote immediately after the game at Wigan, the majority of fans still buy into giving Cocu a fair chance. TFFT.

Even though I accept more sheep are now voting out - even though the circumstances have not yet had chance to be changed.

Forum moderators:  Please can the 'Cocu in/out' "discussion" now be confined to a single topic. That would allow us to discuss other DCFC matters without falling into going over the same in/out ground over and over again.

I know folks will point out that everything ultimately goes back to the manager - and it largely does - but, at least, make constructive and original points. Please don't simply regurgitate the same old stuff (apologies because I'm as guilty as anyone).

Thanks. COYR ?

[Carnero]

So 70/30 in, ignoring the "not sure's". Well done Rams fans ?

[ariotofmyown]

3 hours ago, Justa said:

Well one thing is obvious and that’s Cocu is dividing the fans !

 

I assume that the poll was different when you posted this as it seems firmly in favour of him staying. Lots of posts saying he should go, less posters saying the same, lots less survey respondents. 

[NottsRam77]

I crave stability here I really do

But my gut feeling Is right manager, wrong time 

I can’t honestly see anything positive about his reign so far 

he’s been dealt the toughest of hands for all the very valid reasons given, and perhaps that’s his saving grace 

but Iv seen nothing to make me think he’s the right man 

transfers, player development , hunger and desire shown from his players, doing the basics , indifferent /confusing team selections, baffling and at time’s needless squad tinkering and tbh an endless loyalty to tom Lawrence which with the best will in the world to the lad but is broken. 
I don’t know what he has on cocu but Iv never seen a player play so ineptly for so long and not get dropped 

tbh starting the season with Huddlestone and dowell in a league that demands mobility and workrate didn’t get him off to the greatest start in my book 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Pearl Ram said:

Oh duck off.

Nice counter argument,very good.

[CornwallRam]

28 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I'm now finding this whole discussion depressing. It's been rehashed so many times now - by both sides. 

Despite the cynical launching of this second vote immediately after the game at Wigan, the majority of fans still buy into giving Cocu a fair chance. TFFT.

Even though I accept more sheep are now voting out - even though the circumstances have not yet had chance to be changed.

Forum moderators:  Please can the 'Cocu in/out' "discussion" now be confined to a single topic. That would allow us to discuss other DCFC matters without falling into going over the same in/out ground over and over again.

I know folks will point out that everything ultimately goes back to the manager - and it largely does - but, at least, make constructive and original points. Please don't simply regurgitate the same old stuff (apologies because I'm as guilty as anyone).

Thanks. COYR ?

I'm not sure the discussions add very much, but I reckon that the polls should be reset every couple of weeks.

It's fascinating to see how fans' opinions change. The poll on this site has the advantage of being nearly completely Rams fans, whereas a DT poll would attract others intent on mischief and gloating. 

If Cocu goes, what did the poll say? If Cocu stays and comes good, how low did the poll get? In that scenario, it would be great evidence for owners to show more restraint. 

I do think these debates are interesting because they are so focused on the football. It won't be the football that gets Cocu sacked - if it does happen, it will be the economic situation. Although clearly this is strongly connected to the football, Mel will pull the trigger when Cocu becomes too great a financial risk. 

I heard Ed Dawes again saying that he's comfortable with relegation. I'm not. Not because I wouldn't enjoy the football, but because there is a very real probability that relegation would be terminal for this club. We are too big as a commercial enterprise to be able to take the hit. IMO, relegation would see us playing as AFC Derby County and ground sharing Meadow Lane in the Conference North. That's why I don't believe that Mel has the luxury of giving Cocu time. Taking that route is far riskier for the actual existence of Derby County than sacking and bringing in another manager.

[RamNut]

2 hours ago, cannable said:

See now this is where we get philosophical. 

Managers don’t improve footballers. They give them the opportunity to flourish. Bulking up aside, you are the player you will be at 18. Arsene Wenger can convey this more intelligently than me; 

“You build a player like you build a house. The basis of the player is the technique, and you get that between seven and 14 years of age. If you have no technical skill at 14, you will never be a football player. Then the first floor is the physical aspect, unfortunately that is decided between 14 and 17, where you see if they will be quick enough and strong enough.

The second floor is the tactical aspect; does he understand the game? How can I relate to you if you have the ball, do I understand where to go? Then the final part that is decided at 18 or 19 years of age is ‘How much do I want to be successful?’. ‘Am I ready not to go to the disco on Friday night because I want to have a good game on Saturday? That’s what I call the roof, and if you have no roof, it rains in.”
 

You improve players by giving them the opportunity to flourish. You fit them into a system that gets the best out of them and you cover everybody’s strengths and weaknesses as much as possible and we just don’t have the players. 

You coach players how to play your system but sometimes this isn’t necessarily within their capabilities. We abandoned playing from the back because Davies and Fozzy can’t but we don’t have the midfield to win second balls and no amount of coaching will change that. 

Interesting but i often think of how Lee Carsley suddenly blossomed in the premier league having been very ordinary in the championship. Players aren’t made at 19. They continue to improve into their mid 20s and sometimes we’ll beyond that.  Knight and sibley are too young to be in the first team. But they are probably the best central midfielders that we have, even now, even though they are still rookies. They can’t play 46 games so there will be a time to leave them out when the shinnies and others return to full fitness. But for now, play them!

brian clough used to observe that some players make other players into better players. Who do we have who can have that effect? It will be interesting to see whether Rooney has that effect. But none of the other senior players seem to have that special charisma. I suppose in wenger’s system that’s equivalent to a stonking loft conversion.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

18 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm not sure the discussions add very much, but I reckon that the polls should be reset every couple of weeks.

It's fascinating to see how fans' opinions change. The poll on this site has the advantage of being nearly completely Rams fans, whereas a DT poll would attract others intent on mischief and gloating. 

If Cocu goes, what did the poll say? If Cocu stays and comes good, how low did the poll get? In that scenario, it would be great evidence for owners to show more restraint. 

I do think these debates are interesting because they are so focused on the football. It won't be the football that gets Cocu sacked - if it does happen, it will be the economic situation. Although clearly this is strongly connected to the football, Mel will pull the trigger when Cocu becomes too great a financial risk. 

I heard Ed Dawes again saying that he's comfortable with relegation. I'm not. Not because I wouldn't enjoy the football, but because there is a very real probability that relegation would be terminal for this club. We are too big as a commercial enterprise to be able to take the hit. IMO, relegation would see us playing as AFC Derby County and ground sharing Meadow Lane in the Conference North. That's why I don't believe that Mel has the luxury of giving Cocu time. Taking that route is far riskier for the actual existence of Derby County than sacking and bringing in another manager.

Quite true,it's easy to forget that economics rules all in football and that whilst Mel,no doubt,loves Derby,he loves his financial security more.

Cocu is on borrowed time if the results don't take a swift upturn.

Luckily for him,I don't think Mel will pull the trigger until the end of January when he has had a chance to view Rooney and Phil's new players in action.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Still overwhelmingly the vote is in favour of in. Want another poll Roy?