Boycie Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, David said: Go on then @rynny @uttoxram75 @Duracell @GboroRam @Kernow @Boycie which one of you is going to text Frank this morning? ? I’ve already texted him “morning beautiful” I’m not texting again as I don’t want to come across as needy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Seaside Ram said: Just for the record, I think sarcasm when done properly is hilarious ! ?? Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit..........................................................................................................and can also be the funniest if done properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Duracell said: I guess it’s a question of mentality. In my mind, this season was all about having something tangible at the end of it; green shoots for the future. Simply being in the playoffs is exactly that for me. Certainly is. The mentality of winning and for winners is pretty singular though IME; I suspect any sports psychologist would arrive at that same conclusion too. From my only parallel experience I'd suggest there is the same mentality to be applied in business or any other walk of life for that matter i.e. in business you don't go congratulating yourself before the year end figures are in while there is still more business to be won. It was why I was irked with Keogh about being a great season before the final ball had been kicked. While it may be, why say it, that breeds complacency at the exact moment when all is to play for? I know I wouldn't motivate a sales team by saying in November you've already hit the years target numbers...anything from here is a bonus...it just doesn't work like that if you want to get results at the crunch - it is not befitting of a winning attitude IMO. You do notice the "relentless" nature of winners in this respect, I suspect Lampard very much has it, actually. Never happy when the next target remains in sight. My observation tis all. You wait until the fat lady has sung, nothing else to be played for and THEN you review success or failure in the whole. To my mind this is cut-and-dried obvious but probably highly controversial here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, David said: Go on then @rynny @uttoxram75 @Duracell @GboroRam @Kernow @Boycie which one of you is going to text Frank this morning? ? He hasn’t opened my Snapchat yet so I’ll wait before I give him a text as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, SillyBilly said: Certainly is. The mentality of winning and for winners is pretty singular though IME; I suspect any sports psychologist would arrive at that same conclusion too. From my only parallel experience I'd suggest there is the same mentality to be applied in business or any other walk of life for that matter i.e. in business you don't go congratulating yourself before the year end figures are in while there is still more business to be won. It was why I was irked with Keogh about being a great season before the final ball had been kicked. While it may be, why say it, that breeds complacency at the exact moment when all is to play for? I know I wouldn't motivate a sales team by saying in November you've already hit the years target numbers...anything from here is a bonus...it just doesn't work like that if you want to get results at the crunch - it is not befitting of a winning attitude IMO. You do notice the "relentless" nature of winners in this respect, I suspect Lampard very much has it, actually. Never happy when the next target remains in sight. My observation tis all. You wait until the fat lady has sung, nothing else to be played for and THEN you review success or failure in the whole. To my mind this is cut-and-dried obvious but probably highly controversial here! I do agree with you. The problem is that we (myself included) haven’t set the target of being winners this season - just signs we can be next season. Lack of ambition? Probably, if I’m being honest. I think years of supporting this club, now the longest in the second tier, to sacrifice short term ambition in the name of green shoots of long-term improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Duracell said: Can I ask why you believe this? I can’t think of a time this season we have intentionally set up not to press. I can think of several times it hasn’t worked well enough, but can’t think of a time we played deep on purpose. Are you saying that these players can cross the white line and not perform the roles a manager asks of them to the best of their ability? That’s an astonishing claim you making there Duracell, but one that I agree with. Players are not robots, I don’t believe for a second Bogle was programmed to not step past the half way line, I don’t believe for a second Lampard is oblivious to Leeds width and thought the best approach would be to sacrifice our own attacking threat to nullify their forward runs. I believe Leeds press better as a team, I believe the pressure forced us back where Bogle and Malone became cautious of being exposed. Our midfield dropped back which left Nugent in no mans land. As you pointed out in another post which may have been in another topic, it only takes one or two to knock it out of sync and it’s a difficult hole to get out of once you’re in it. I think the selection of Nugent ahead of Marriott setup the criticism before a ball was kicked, for what it’s worth I don’t think Marriott would have seen the game play out any different. You can argue he would have buried Nugent’s chance, but it’s all ifs buts and maybes now. Yesterday we reverted to what I call the tortoise system, when in danger crawl back into our shell. I kind of expect that at times given the age and experience of our team, yesterday was probably the biggest game for a few out there, bigger than WBA. Lick our wounds today then pick them back up and get those heads ready for Wednesday as this will be an even bigger game than yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 11 hours ago, GrimsbyRam said: Leeds were poor today. They were not free flowing like the home league game. That could have been nil nil. Derby were woeful and never looked liked scoring but that was not down to Leeds it was down to Derby freezing on the day Really ? they came away from home in a play off semi final , dominated the ball, limited the home side to 0 shots at goal and grabbed the win sounds pretty good to me think it’s called a game plan they were the better side, end of story, if waghorn had been playing then I think we’d have offered a little bit more but they dominated all over the pitch, our midfield couldn’t get near there’s, better side won, no complaints, it’s football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Seaside Ram said: Just for the record, I think sarcasm when done properly is hilarious ! ? Oscar Wilde would have differed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 The problem is Leeds set up in a way that is very difficult for us to deal with. They press high stopping us playing out from the back, they force our attacking full back back so they don't get the ball in dangerous areas, and our forwards are starved of possession. There isn't an easy way to alter the way we play to adapt to there style. I would be a gamble but we may be able to push up, have our wide attackers high and Mount further forward to push them back and get a bit more space in the middle, but if it goes wrong they'll never see the ball and start coming back to collect it. It's a bit harsh on Frank to say he got it all wrong in these circumstances. He didn't get it as right as we needed, but he didn't completely balls it up either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 If people think that's a terrible performance then you can't have been to more than 3 games before. Let the sun and beers wear off then re-evaluate your ridiculous position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I doubt that either Nuge or Marriott have the fitness levels to play a full 90 mins so they were both gonna play at some point yesterday unless we went with Mason Bennett up front. I'm guessing Franks game plan was for Nuge to wear down their back four and for Marriott to come on exploit their tiredness with his younger, fresher legs. Had we gone the other way around it still wouldn't have worked due to Leeds pressing being very effective. We need to be braver with the ball Wednesday. Leeds are not unbeatable and the tie is far from over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Inglorius said: So what you're saying is that we should have just given Leeds a bye into the play off final as the result before a ball was kicked was already a fait accompli Grow up Inglorius. Surely you know that's not what he's saying. Forgive me if I misrepresent you Charlie but, the way I read it: Leeds are a better team and there manager is significantly more experienced than ours so, don't overreact if we lose to a better team and Frank appears to have made tactical errors (as judged by us expert football managers). Yes we're all disappointed in our own performance, more so than the result, but some comments on here are well over top. Their quality and the experience of their manager doesn't mean the result was a fait accompli. Sometimes the weaker, less experienced team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Duracell said: Can I ask why you believe this? I can’t think of a time this season we have intentionally set up not to press. I can think of several times it hasn’t worked well enough, but can’t think of a time we played deep on purpose. From what I could see from my seat Lampard was instructing the front three to back off when they went up to press from the touchline. When a press isn’t working you tend to see individuals running around trying to press but not as a unit. I didn’t see anyone pushing up yesterday at all, everyone looked to be sat deep in an attempt to be organised, absorb pressure, and counter. Very similar set up to Rowett away at Fulham last season. As I say, some games that may well work, but against Leeds it was suicide cause they’re too good to just invite pressure on to in the way we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Grow up Inglorius. Surely you know that's not what he's saying. It's very presumptuous assuming what someone is meant to know or not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StockholmRam Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 58 minutes ago, David said: Are you saying that these players can cross the white line and not perform the roles a manager asks of them to the best of their ability? That’s an astonishing claim you making there Duracell, but one that I agree with. Players are not robots, I don’t believe for a second Bogle was programmed to not step past the half way line, I don’t believe for a second Lampard is oblivious to Leeds width and thought the best approach would be to sacrifice our own attacking threat to nullify their forward runs. I believe Leeds press better as a team, I believe the pressure forced us back where Bogle and Malone became cautious of being exposed. Our midfield dropped back which left Nugent in no mans land. As you pointed out in another post which may have been in another topic, it only takes one or two to knock it out of sync and it’s a difficult hole to get out of once you’re in it. I think the selection of Nugent ahead of Marriott setup the criticism before a ball was kicked, for what it’s worth I don’t think Marriott would have seen the game play out any different. You can argue he would have buried Nugent’s chance, but it’s all ifs buts and maybes now. Yesterday we reverted to what I call the tortoise system, when in danger crawl back into our shell. I kind of expect that at times given the age and experience of our team, yesterday was probably the biggest game for a few out there, bigger than WBA. Lick our wounds today then pick them back up and get those heads ready for Wednesday as this will be an even bigger game than yesterday. Agree with everything you/ we saw. However, its the managers job to spot this too and have an effect on his players from the touchline. For all of Bogles unwillingness to go forward much for 60 mins we still managed to give Jack Harrison the freedom of the park. He was found at will too. We were too narrow and not nearly fast enough to react. There are a number of changes we can make for Wednesday to make life more difficult for them. I suspect that Bielsa has the hoodoo over us. Bit like Nigel did over them when he was our manager. No idea why this happens but its uncanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Archied said: I’m willing to bet you are one of them? leeds are a decent side and they played better than us today, Bogle wasn’t told to not get get forward ,Leeds gave him little chance to get forward , this thread is like listening to that idiot rammage on the radio ,play Marriott and all will be well frank cutting his nose off to spite his face rubbish , It’s very easy to do better than the manager when you haven’t actually got to do it right boges I want you getting forward ,just stay up there no matter whether they have the ball and we need defender just get forward son , oh and if you get the chance pass it to Martin ,he’s god Not saying leeds aren’t a decent side, nor am I saying bogle was told not get forward. I’m saying the reason why leeds didn’t give us a chance to get forward is because we allowed them to box us in. Nothing about individual instructions, it was about the team tactic not to push up and press and to sit back and try and counter. You absolutely CANNOT do that against Leeds, you can’t go out there scared of them because exactly what happened will happen, you’ll end up boxed in and not able to get out, like you say. I don’t think I’ve ever said Marriott would have made any difference cause I don’t think he would have, since all we did all game was launch it to the frontman which leeds dealt with with ease and just came on to us again. That’s how we ended up trapped, because we were too scared to play our actual football and play it out, which just kept giving it away so they kept coming again and again and again. Leeds looked tidy but hardly unbeatable yesterday, I’ve seen us beat better sides when we haven’t come out set up so scared of them. Wouldn’t have been rocket science, I honestly think had we kept up the pressing from the first 10 minutes we’d have won that match. And we had PLENTY of chances to press, we just looked under instruction not to, and so no one did. As I say you HAVE to press and close leeds down if you’ve any chance of beating them, when we actually did it they looked wobbly! If we’d have just exposed their makeshift defence more we had a great chance! We’ve done it to similar teams like West Brom and beaten them, so why the hell did we go out so scared yesterday, and go against everything that’s made us play so well! I As I said earlier I just don’t get the thinking behind the tactics, I’m sorry but Lampard bottled that match. He was scared of leeds after what they did to us before so sent us out to not get battered. That was suicide against Leeds and so it proved, could see that result coming from 15 minutes in. I don’t blame the players at all, I blame Lampard entirely for that result yesterday. I don’t think any of the players really did much stupid like giving the ball away, making the wrong decisions etc. That result was simply down to an appalling show of managerial nous by our manager. That’s not me calling Lampard out cause he’s won the summer window and to start next season in my eyes with what he’s done this season. But that’s what happened yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Gritty said: I find many of the posts on here astonishing. People saying Lampard doesn't know what he's doing (does that mean he does know what he's doing when we win, but he has no clue when we don't?), or he's "scared" because we lost a match (Scared? Lampard? Really????) There is another possibility. Leeds are - at this moment in time - a better side than us. Leeds may be a better side than us although at this point of the season I don't think their is a lot between the two teams.If we play to our strength we are capable of beating leeds,unfortunately yesterday pressing ,movement and offensive football was lacking by ourselves for too much of the game,but when we pushed in after the goal we didn't look inferior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsFan10 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I thought the decision to bring Nuge on was wrong against WBA, despite the result, and maintained that it was wrong to start him even though we knew Frank would. Through on goal 6-10 yards out i have 0 faith in him scoring and 100% faith in him falling onto one knee and top-punting the ball harmlessly into the Keepers hands. Think we ought to start with Marriott and Bennett on next game if Waghorn is still injured. I've seen a few say that Lampard sees them train all week/knows vastly more about the players and football than any of us which is obviously true. But that is the same for literally every manager in the world compared to normal fans, it does not mean that they can't make mistakes. We shouldn't slate him, he's done very well in his first job and will only get better. All managers play certain players from time to time when most fans can't fathom why. Just hope something is changed for the second leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcfan1 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Leeds are head and shoulders above us Sometimes you have to hold your hand up and say "too good", No shame in that, we go again next season when frank has his own players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 And Norwich are better than Leeds by some margin, it didn’t stop us taking 4 points off them and putting 4 passed them at Carrow Road did it ? I’m not buying this Leeds are a better team than us tripe, we’ve never competed against them all season for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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