Ram8 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Ok Archied and dcfc4ever, so my post is “the most laughable post of the year” is it, and I should seek out Kevin Hector too !! ******************************** (Saint) Frank certainly did get it wrong, everyone seems to agree he should never start Nugent again, Marriott not the perfect answer either, but the best we’ve got .. The REALLY big mistake was not giving Chris Martin a chance when he first came in, surely SOMEONE must have told him how good he was. Just because his two predecessors didn’t possess a brain call between them shouldn’t have swayed his decision. Having CM throughout the season would probably have secured us automatic. But that’s not all, WHY hasn’t he been playing Huddlestone in EVERY match, but particularly this one, when his skill and experience would have been invaluable. Frank, you have a LOT to learn, and possibly the praise lavished upon you by the majority of fans has not helped your decision making process .. ******************************** That’s obviously because neither of you have the imagination to see beyond the fact that just because a few ‘so called’ professional managers have failed to appreciate the skills that Chris Martin could still bring to our game plan, it could STILL HAVE BEEN our best option. And SO MUCH better than that provided by either Nugent, Marriott or Waghorn ! I presume that you are also unable to appreciate what Huddlestone brings to our game; the best passer of a ball in ANY division over the last decade, the ability (shared with Chris Martin) to ‘out think’ the opposition tactically. Both players bring a whole new dimension to our game plan if the manager has the knowledge of the game that should be a prerequisite for managing a club of Derby’s status, and I’m afraid that no manager since McLaren has possessed that ability, despite Lampard’s promising start. So, open your eyes to the obvious, and stop believing that ‘managers must know best’ simply because they have a famous name or reputation .. it isn’t always the case ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ram8 said: Ok Archied and dcfc4ever, so my post is “the most laughable post of the year” is it, and I should seek out Kevin Hector too !! ******************************** (Saint) Frank certainly did get it wrong, everyone seems to agree he should never start Nugent again, Marriott not the perfect answer either, but the best we’ve got .. The REALLY big mistake was not giving Chris Martin a chance when he first came in, surely SOMEONE must have told him how good he was. Just because his two predecessors didn’t possess a brain call between them shouldn’t have swayed his decision. Having CM throughout the season would probably have secured us automatic. But that’s not all, WHY hasn’t he been playing Huddlestone in EVERY match, but particularly this one, when his skill and experience would have been invaluable. Frank, you have a LOT to learn, and possibly the praise lavished upon you by the majority of fans has not helped your decision making process .. ******************************** That’s obviously because neither of you have the imagination to see beyond the fact that just because a few ‘so called’ professional managers have failed to appreciate the skills that Chris Martin could still bring to our game plan, it could STILL HAVE BEEN our best option. And SO MUCH better than that provided by either Nugent, Marriott or Waghorn ! I presume that you are also unable to appreciate what Huddlestone brings to our game; the best passer of a ball in ANY division over the last decade, the ability (shared with Chris Martin) to ‘out think’ the opposition tactically. Both players bring a whole new dimension to our game plan if the manager has the knowledge of the game that should be a prerequisite for managing a club of Derby’s status, and I’m afraid that no manager since McLaren has possessed that ability, despite Lampard’s promising start. So, open your eyes to the obvious, and stop believing that ‘managers must know best’ simply because they have a famous name or reputation .. it isn’t always the case ! Really ? I think it’s pretty clear that you don’t have the imagination to see past Chris Martin and Steve mclaren ,, it’s past ,it’s gone, not only are managers at Derby showing Martin the door he’s doing very poorly everywhere else , as is Steve Mac so as I say why not get hector back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, Ram8 said: Ok Archied and dcfc4ever, so my post is “the most laughable post of the year” is it, and I should seek out Kevin Hector too !! ******************************** (Saint) Frank certainly did get it wrong, everyone seems to agree he should never start Nugent again, Marriott not the perfect answer either, but the best we’ve got .. The REALLY big mistake was not giving Chris Martin a chance when he first came in, surely SOMEONE must have told him how good he was. Just because his two predecessors didn’t possess a brain call between them shouldn’t have swayed his decision. Having CM throughout the season would probably have secured us automatic. But that’s not all, WHY hasn’t he been playing Huddlestone in EVERY match, but particularly this one, when his skill and experience would have been invaluable. Frank, you have a LOT to learn, and possibly the praise lavished upon you by the majority of fans has not helped your decision making process .. ******************************** That’s obviously because neither of you have the imagination to see beyond the fact that just because a few ‘so called’ professional managers have failed to appreciate the skills that Chris Martin could still bring to our game plan, it could STILL HAVE BEEN our best option. And SO MUCH better than that provided by either Nugent, Marriott or Waghorn ! I presume that you are also unable to appreciate what Huddlestone brings to our game; the best passer of a ball in ANY division over the last decade, the ability (shared with Chris Martin) to ‘out think’ the opposition tactically. Both players bring a whole new dimension to our game plan if the manager has the knowledge of the game that should be a prerequisite for managing a club of Derby’s status, and I’m afraid that no manager since McLaren has possessed that ability, despite Lampard’s promising start. So, open your eyes to the obvious, and stop believing that ‘managers must know best’ simply because they have a famous name or reputation .. it isn’t always the case ! Do you know the circumstances around us loaning out Martin? Perhaps he wanted out after being messed around for the last few years. Maybe, it made financial sense to loan Martin out instead of Nugent, allowing us to get someone else in. It's clear Frank wanted to play with 1 up top. Waghorn being 1st choice, Marriott 2nd, plus 1 more as backup. If no-one could afford Nugent, then it makes sense for Martin to go somewhere else to play games. With Nugent's contract expiring this summer, I wouldn't be surprised if Martin returns and stays as 3rd choice next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram8 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Ok, so I MAY admit that there’s one flaw in my argument, and that COULD just be that Martin and McLaren were just ‘a great fit’ together, and maybe McLaren got that extra 20% out of Martin that no other manager could. However, I can’t accept that Pearson or Rowett had ANY IDEA of how to judge a footballer’s ability, as they both rejected Will Hughes too ! Lampard is a different matter, but maybe he never saw the videos of Martin that he should have been shown on arrival in the job. So, on reflection I stand by my opinion, and am certain that Saint Frank got both his tactics and his selection VERY WRONG on Saturday. So, how about the Huddlestone issue then ? And DON’T trot out the argument that “he’s too slow”, that’s garbage, as he thinks quicker than anyone else, and his ‘skill set’ is miles ahead of anyone else at Derby, and amongst most of the opposition too. Maybe you will even agree with me on this one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram8 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Really ‘Ghost of Clough’, Martin THIRD CHOICE behind who we have in place ? That’s yet another humiliation heaped upon the best centre forward this club has had in the past decade ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ram8 said: Ok, so I MAY admit that there’s one flaw in my argument, and that COULD just be that Martin and McLaren were just ‘a great fit’ together, and maybe McLaren got that extra 20% out of Martin that no other manager could. However, I can’t accept that Pearson or Rowett had ANY IDEA of how to judge a footballer’s ability, as they both rejected Will Hughes too ! Lampard is a different matter, but maybe he never saw the videos of Martin that he should have been shown on arrival in the job. So, on reflection I stand by my opinion, and am certain that Saint Frank got both his tactics and his selection VERY WRONG on Saturday. So, how about the Huddlestone issue then ? And DON’T trot out the argument that “he’s too slow”, that’s garbage, as he thinks quicker than anyone else, and his ‘skill set’ is miles ahead of anyone else at Derby, and amongst most of the opposition too. Maybe you will even agree with me on this one ! Honestly you need to move on , just because a manager doesn’t pick or keep a player is not necessarily a judgement of a players ability but rather whether that player fits with the way he wants his team and his players to play ,even with that said I could understand your feeling if Martin was making our decision to loan him out look foolish but he is not , on huddlestone it’s six of one half a dozen of another we have played well with him in the team but also played poorly with him too ,my opinion is that neither he nor Bradley j are the right players for the role they are playing and there’s a trade off and huddlestone has been off it with his passing( main strength) for a bit to be fair , Bradley brings some bite but can be a total liability with giving the ball away needlessly in very dangerous positions at the total wrong times ,it’s hard to stream forward into attack when bladders is just as likely to give the ball away and leave us exposed , theres not a chance lampard would have outed hughes the way rowett did , enough said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, Ram8 said: Really ‘Ghost of Clough’, Martin THIRD CHOICE behind who we have in place ? That’s yet another humiliation heaped upon the best centre forward this club has had in the past decade ! You think Martin walks in the team ahead of waghorn and Marriott? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtheram Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 The most disappointing thing on Saturday is that we let them play like they did earlier in the season. We knew what we had to do to get at Leeds and didn't do it until we had conceded. Our big time players were off it, Mount and Wilson limited to very little and Lawrence again a little inconsistent. My biggest problem is that we didn't take advantage of them not having Bamford or Jansson, both will be back for Wednesday. On Wednesday Mount / Wilson/ Lawrence all need to be shooting whenever the space opens up. We need to test there goalkeeper which we didn't do at all. Nugent cant be starting again, he wont be here next season and is downright useless. We need to score goals so i think playing Marriott or Bennett maybe both would suit us better. I hope Frank learns from Sunday in how not to play against Leeds and we go there and at least play how we know we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 19 hours ago, Millenniumram said: I don’t think I’m missing that? I agree entirely it was forced and not tactical that we were forced long, that’s why I said I don’t blame Tomori or Malone. There’s no way frank sent us out to be play hoofball I agree. It was forced upon by leeds pressing. But the thing is we allowed ourselves to be forced into it by sitting so deep meaning leeds had little to worry about and could step so far up on us, to which they did a good job. But we had chances to do the same to them, but we didn’t, we just stood off them. We could have fought fire with fire but we didn’t get close to them and just let them play. Very frustrating Ok I think I may have misinterpreted your post a little in that case. As far sitting deep, again I do think that was forced to a degree. Partially through being penned in and partially through players getting a bit nervy about Leeds opening us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 19 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: They worked harder and more effectively than we did their movement both on and off the ball sadly was another level to us but hey, who says that can’t be us next season Lampard will have another window to get more of his type of player in to implement his style im confident ... just not for Wednesday lol Harder? I'm not sure about that but maybe. Definately more effective and their movement was better. To be honest I just think they had more ability to play their way out of tight situations as well as players making themselves available a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Ram8 said: Really ‘Ghost of Clough’, Martin THIRD CHOICE behind who we have in place ? That’s yet another humiliation heaped upon the best centre forward this club has had in the past decade ! He's second choice behind Frazier Campbell at Hull for the majority of the season, and 3rd choice behind Nouha Dicho for a good chunk too. If you think it would be humiliating for him to be behind Waghorn and Marriott, then how must he have felt not being chosen over the other Hull forwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Srg said: Lampard was the biggest disappointment on Saturday. He's had 2 thrashings by Leeds this year and they've played the same way in both those games, plus every game they've played this season. They pressure high and sit tight deeper to stop anything to feet. All the space in the world in the channels... so he plays a striker who's completely shot at this level - i'd be shocked if he's still in this league next year. Not figuring out a better plan than our usual method of playing, which has got us battered twice previously, and expecting an entirely different outcome is crazy. The only saving grace to it all is that it's only 1-0, despite the referee's best efforts. Just don't have a lot of confidence we will turn up Wednesday with any difference in plan. These are the pitfalls of rookie management, I guess, and you can only hope he learns for the future. I believe he can, he's a smart bloke and some more squad surgery should give us better flexibility in the summer. Ok I'm going to play devil's advocate to the bit in bold. I don't think it's entirely reasonable to compare to the two games purely for personal reasons. We put out line up that featured 6 different players from either of those precious occasion, a line up that was coming off a big win against West Brom. Nugent aside, the initial line up is probably what most people would have picked beforehand and choosing Nugent is defendable in my opinion for having better hold up play than Mariott. Also we started the game really brightly. Personally I don't think how we initially set our stall out was the problem at all. I think it's that we didn't change things sooner when it was clear it wasn't working but that's a brave call to make when it's 0-0, there haven't been many chances and it's still early in the overall tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, brady1993 said: Ok I'm going to play devil's advocate to the bit in bold. I don't think it's entirely reasonable to compare to the two games purely for personal reasons. We put out line up that featured 6 different players from either of those precious occasion, a line up that was coming off a big win against West Brom. Nugent aside, the initial line up is probably what most people would have picked beforehand and choosing Nugent is defendable in my opinion for having better hold up play than Mariott. Also we started the game really brightly. Personally I don't think how we initially set our stall out was the problem at all. I think it's that we didn't change things sooner when it was clear it wasn't working but that's a brave call to make when it's 0-0, there haven't been many chances and it's still early in the overall tie. Different players playing the same system, with broadly the same attributes though. Wasn't like we suddenly started playing a target man striker, or a Pulis style centre back at full back, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Srg said: Different players playing the same system, with broadly the same attributes though. Wasn't like we suddenly started playing a target man striker, or a Pulis style centre back at full back, for example. Oh sure but what I am saying is that those different players you would expect (particularly in the case of Roos, Bogle, Malone and Holmes) to fair better at dealing with the pressing and being able to help us combat it within our preferred system. And to an extent that happened it just wasn't enough. I can understand criticising Nugent's selection and I can understand criticising Lampard for not reacting sooner but I feel our initial set up was fine given the information available before KO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 hours ago, brady1993 said: Harder? I'm not sure about that but maybe. Definately more effective and their movement was better. To be honest I just think they had more ability to play their way out of tight situations as well as players making themselves available a lot more. Harder and better their movement off the ball for each other was another level to ours, their press was another level to ours they’re just currently a better side than we are no complaints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier ram Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Ram8 said: Really ‘Ghost of Clough’, Martin THIRD CHOICE behind who we have in place ? That’s yet another humiliation heaped upon the best centre forward this club has had in the past decade ! cant believe 2days before our biggest game of the season , people on here are talking about Chris Martin , unbelievable and, they say Forest fans live in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Premier ram said: cant believe 2days before our biggest game of the season , people on here are talking about Chris Martin , unbelievable and, they say Forest fans live in the past He's still a Derby player and will be next season, atm. Can't believe that we started with Nugent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: He's still a Derby player and will be next season, atm. Can't believe that we started with Nugent. Hi @RoyMac5 ? was waiting for you to awake from your slumber at the mention of the name Chris Martin ? For what it’s worth I don’t think Nugent is the answer either ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: He's still a Derby player and will be next season, atm. Can't believe that we started with Nugent. Yes I imagine CM will be at the club next season, unless there is a mutual termination of contract agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 38 minutes ago, europia said: Yes I imagine CM will be at the club next season, unless there is a mutual termination of contract agreed. Well that would be another significant financial clanger wouldn't it - we could have sold him for how much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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