Investment

[hintonsboots]

17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

The advice Mel had on how and when to spend his (at the time time) considerable investment. The financial situation he got himself and the Club into. This is the real problem, as much so as who the investor is. This point continues to be ignored, but who was advising Mel and Derby County? How the Club is set up and run is more important than who is running it. Has it changed?

David Clowes seems to be building a much better infrastructure and repairing the damage to the academy, so we should be better prepared for each step up the ladder. We need to be grateful to Mel for the amazing training facilities and having a Cat 1 academy, but to answer your question I got the impression that he was not keen on taking advice from anyone.

[DavesaRam]

22 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

I agree that Mel’s approach to forming a Premier League 2 was badly thought out, and he needed the majority of at least Championship Chairman on board to have any traction. But I can appreciate that Mel was attempting to produce a fairer distribution of money from the Premiership to the football leagues.

You explain that The Baron brought our accounting (amortisation) methods to the attention of Rick et al, but how were the EFL and Gibson/ Couhig allowed to pursue Derby allegedly outside the rule book? Was it a case of the funds not being there to challenge in the High Court ?

A significant rule is the one which says that a. EFL club cannot sue another EFL club. So when Middlesbrough went to sue the EFL for not docking us points for cheating them out of promotion, Rick Parry knew that it would lead to a flood of similar cases against them. So they told Middlesbrough to sue the Rams - against their own rules. 

I believe it is against the law to take actions which restrict an organisation from going about it’s business. So when the ambulance chasers did try and sue us, the EFL deliberately delayed identifying whether those alleged debts were football or non-football related debts which then delayed our attempts to come out of administration. Which then meant we couldn’t resign players like Jagielka whose contracts were restricted to 6 months. Neither could we trade for replacements, so the heart of our team was ripped out, guaranteeing our relegation, despite our current form suggesting we could escape. The EFL could and should have made that distinction straight away, but did not do so. They should have also sent the case to the Law Courts, who should have kicked into into touch so hard it would still be orbitting the earth now, but they wanted it put it through the kangaroo court of their own tribunal. Besides there was no way in which the alleged costs of missing out on promotion could be calculated. The whole thing was a colossal travesty of justice.

[Macintosh]

On 08/09/2024 at 20:25, DavesaRam said:

A significant rule is the one which says that a. EFL club cannot sue another EFL club. So when Middlesbrough went to sue the EFL for not docking us points for cheating them out of promotion, Rick Parry knew that it would lead to a flood of similar cases against them. So they told Middlesbrough to sue the Rams - against their own rules. 

I believe it is against the law to take actions which restrict an organisation from going about it’s business. So when the ambulance chasers did try and sue us, the EFL deliberately delayed identifying whether those alleged debts were football or non-football related debts which then delayed our attempts to come out of administration. Which then meant we couldn’t resign players like Jagielka whose contracts were restricted to 6 months. Neither could we trade for replacements, so the heart of our team was ripped out, guaranteeing our relegation, despite our current form suggesting we could escape. The EFL could and should have made that distinction straight away, but did not do so. They should have also sent the case to the Law Courts, who should have kicked into into touch so hard it would still be orbitting the earth now, but they wanted it put it through the kangaroo court of their own tribunal. Besides there was no way in which the alleged costs of missing out on promotion could be calculated. The whole thing was a colossal travesty of justice.

I'm hopeful that Mel will agree to write a book about all of this one day, it would be an amazing story, and I dare say some on here would have no interest in reading a single word of it should it happen. I remain grateful for his time owning our club and his generosity. I don't think anyone could blame him of malice towards our club. The hardest bit would be the legal read of his story. There would be a lot of things he'd like to put straight.

I have recently been involved with the Sheffield United ex-chairman's memories, Kevin McCabe's Mucky Boots. He was principal shareholder since 1999 and then chairman when they had the lengthy legal fight over Carlos Tevez against the FA and Premier League for two years and many trips later to courts before being rewarded with a £15m settlement of the £50m sought against West Ham. Although he resigned in 2010 as chairman he was still the owner of the club and sought investment and gained it with Prince Abdullah bin Mosaad Al Saud of the Royal House of Saud – a 50 per cent stake. Then there was Ched Evans to sort. At that time they were said to be the richest UK football club. They were wrong, the Prince was not as rich as they thought, it was not the game changer they hoped for. We might have had a similar tale with our Prince if that had gone through. What many do not realise is that they are a randy lot, there are said to be around 15,000 of these princes and being added to generously. McCabe was also chairman of Sheffield FC, the world's oldest club. A true football fan and whose main (very successful) business interest was in property.

His hated predecessor, Mike McDonald, had wanted to merge the club with Wednesday and sell Bramall Lane. McCabe bought the club outright around the time Gadsby, Billy Davies took over here and had to sell his stake when he served a roulette notice on the Prince in 2017, giving him the option to sell his 50 per cent at £5m or buy McCabe's 50 per cent for the same price. The prince accepted that offer of owning the club outright after some legal battles. McCabe has many good memories of appointing Nigel Clough and what he achieved, got stuck in Division One for a lengthy time, and did make the leap to the Premier League.

I would recommend David Clowes reads Kevin's excellent book, what working with an investor entails, having to deal with representatives and how things can turn sour. Look at Chelsea right now, the fight between the two co-owners there after such a short time. Prince Abdullah tried to sell the club to Nigerian investors recently but failed, he claims he’d invested £40m from his resources to keep the club afloat. He should have a word with Mel, his investment must have been close to 6-7 times that plus many wrinkles and worries for his health. All he got for that was memories, some good, mostly bad. Choose wisely, David, if you do look for investment.

 

Edited September 13 by Macintosh

[Gritstone Ram]

7 hours ago, Macintosh said:

I'm hopeful that Mel will agree to write a book about all of this one day, it would be an amazing story, and I dare say some on here would have no interest in reading a single word of it should it happen. I remain grateful for his time owning our club and his generosity. I don't think anyone could blame him of malice towards our club. The hardest bit would be the legal read of his story. There would be a lot of things he'd like to put straight.

I have recently been involved with the Sheffield United ex-chairman's memories, Kevin McCabe's Mucky Boots. He was principal shareholder since 1999 and then chairman when they had the lengthy legal fight over Carlos Tevez against the FA and Premier League for two years and many trips later to courts before being rewarded with a £15m settlement of the £50m sought against West Ham. Although he resigned in 2010 as chairman he was still the owner of the club and sought investment and gained it with Prince Abdullah bin Mosaad Al Saud of the Royal House of Saud – a 50 per cent stake. Then there was Ched Evans to sort. At that time they were said to be the richest UK football club. They were wrong, the Prince was not as rich as they thought, it was not the game changer they hoped for. We might have had a similar tale with our Prince if that had gone through. What many do not realise is that they are a randy lot, there are said to be around 15,000 of these princes and being added to generously. McCabe was also chairman of Sheffield FC, the world's oldest club. A true football fan and whose main (very successful) business interest was in property.

His hated predecessor, Mike McDonald, had wanted to merge the club with Wednesday and sell Bramall Lane. McCabe bought the club outright around the time Gadsby, Billy Davies took over here and had to sell his stake when he served a roulette notice on the Prince in 2017, giving him the option to sell his 50 per cent at £5m or buy McCabe's 50 per cent for the same price. The prince accepted that offer of owning the club outright after some legal battles. McCabe has many good memories of appointing Nigel Clough and what he achieved, got stuck in Division One for a lengthy time, and did make the leap to the Premier League.

I would recommend David Clowes reads Kevin's excellent book, what working with an investor entails, having to deal with representatives and how things can turn sour. Look at Chelsea right now, the fight between the two co-owners there after such a short time. Prince Abdullah tried to sell the club to Nigerian investors recently but failed, he claims he’d invested £40m from his resources to keep the club afloat. He should have a word with Mel, his investment must have been close to 6-7 times that plus many wrinkles and worries for his health. All he got for that was memories, some good, mostly bad. Choose wisely, David, if you do look for investment.

 

I work with a few Blades they have told me the story about the Poundland Prince.

[DerbyAleMan]

10 hours ago, Macintosh said:

I'm hopeful that Mel will agree to write a book about all of this one day, it would be an amazing story, and I dare say some on here would have no interest in reading a single word of it should it happen. I remain grateful for his time owning our club and his generosity. I don't think anyone could blame him of malice towards our club. The hardest bit would be the legal read of his story. There would be a lot of things he'd like to put straight.

I have recently been involved with the Sheffield United ex-chairman's memories, Kevin McCabe's Mucky Boots. He was principal shareholder since 1999 and then chairman when they had the lengthy legal fight over Carlos Tevez against the FA and Premier League for two years and many trips later to courts before being rewarded with a £15m settlement of the £50m sought against West Ham. Although he resigned in 2010 as chairman he was still the owner of the club and sought investment and gained it with Prince Abdullah bin Mosaad Al Saud of the Royal House of Saud – a 50 per cent stake. Then there was Ched Evans to sort. At that time they were said to be the richest UK football club. They were wrong, the Prince was not as rich as they thought, it was not the game changer they hoped for. We might have had a similar tale with our Prince if that had gone through. What many do not realise is that they are a randy lot, there are said to be around 15,000 of these princes and being added to generously. McCabe was also chairman of Sheffield FC, the world's oldest club. A true football fan and whose main (very successful) business interest was in property.

His hated predecessor, Mike McDonald, had wanted to merge the club with Wednesday and sell Bramall Lane. McCabe bought the club outright around the time Gadsby, Billy Davies took over here and had to sell his stake when he served a roulette notice on the Prince in 2017, giving him the option to sell his 50 per cent at £5m or buy McCabe's 50 per cent for the same price. The prince accepted that offer of owning the club outright after some legal battles. McCabe has many good memories of appointing Nigel Clough and what he achieved, got stuck in Division One for a lengthy time, and did make the leap to the Premier League.

I would recommend David Clowes reads Kevin's excellent book, what working with an investor entails, having to deal with representatives and how things can turn sour. Look at Chelsea right now, the fight between the two co-owners there after such a short time. Prince Abdullah tried to sell the club to Nigerian investors recently but failed, he claims he’d invested £40m from his resources to keep the club afloat. He should have a word with Mel, his investment must have been close to 6-7 times that plus many wrinkles and worries for his health. All he got for that was memories, some good, mostly bad. Choose wisely, David, if you do look for investment.

 

U forgot one really important part, Mel nearly destroyed DCFC, we are lucky to have a club after want that man did to us, would love to bump into him one day myself and tell him what he nearly did to our great club, the man should never walk the streets of Derby again. And he is NO Rams fan. 

[Caerphilly Ram]

“Telegraph Sport understands Clowes has held talks with a number of interested groups from around the world since he saved the club from liquidation in the summer of 2022.

Though Derby is not in negotiations with any party at this stage, their return to the Championship has sparked a wave of renewed interest from potential investors.

New investment must fit club’s business model

A source with knowledge of the process said: “David made it clear from the moment he took control of the club that he was open and willing to discuss external investment as long as that investment aligned with the club’s existing business model and principles.

“Over the last few months there have been several interested parties looking at a serious investment proposition but the club have taken no definitive position on those discussions.”

There is no suggestion that Clowes’ company is struggling financially and the plan has always been to seek outside investment.”

 

Edited September 24 by Caerphilly Ram
Added quote

[RamsFan10]

That seems like a bit of a nothing story from Percy. As he writes, Clowes has always said he’s open to it. He also write we’re “not” in negotiations with anyone at this stage, contradicting his tweet where he says we are “in talks”. Telegraph must be struggling for new subscribers… 

[Ambitious]

7 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

“Telegraph Sport understands Clowes has held talks with a number of interested groups from around the world since he saved the club from liquidation in the summer of 2022.

Though Derby is not in negotiations with any party at this stage, their return to the Championship has sparked a wave of renewed interest from potential investors.

New investment must fit club’s business model

A source with knowledge of the process said: “David made it clear from the moment he took control of the club that he was open and willing to discuss external investment as long as that investment aligned with the club’s existing business model and principles.

“Over the last few months there have been several interested parties looking at a serious investment proposition but the club have taken no definitive position on those discussions.”

There is no suggestion that Clowes’ company is struggling financially and the plan has always been to seek outside investment.”

 

So the news is that there is no news? Nothing that’s changed anyway. It sounds like a news piece to drum up interest, especially given the 80% remark. Not sure who would buy-up 80% or the business and then allow the (then) minority shareholder run it - unless he had huge belief in his partners’s ability to be successful.

I’m not sure that these are the most realistic terms.

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

“Telegraph Sport understands Clowes has held talks with a number of interested groups from around the world since he saved the club from liquidation in the summer of 2022.

Though Derby is not in negotiations with any party at this stage, their return to the Championship has sparked a wave of renewed interest from potential investors.

New investment must fit club’s business model

A source with knowledge of the process said: “David made it clear from the moment he took control of the club that he was open and willing to discuss external investment as long as that investment aligned with the club’s existing business model and principles.

“Over the last few months there have been several interested parties looking at a serious investment proposition but the club have taken no definitive position on those discussions.”

There is no suggestion that Clowes’ company is struggling financially and the plan has always been to seek outside investment.”

 

Not surprised really. Even without my Rams goggs on, if I were in the market, Derby would definitely be on my list of clubs to have a very good look at at. One club city, stupidly loyal fanbase, 30K gates in any league and loads of history...

What's not to like?

[Eoghan1884]

Edited September 24 by Eoghan1884

[therealhantsram]

31 minutes ago, RamsFan10 said:

That seems like a bit of a nothing story from Percy. As he writes, Clowes has always said he’s open to it. He also write we’re “not” in negotiations with anyone at this stage, contradicting his tweet where he says we are “in talks”. Telegraph must be struggling for new subscribers… 

Percy doesn't publish any 'inside' story about the Rams unless someone at DCFC places that story.

With that in mind, what's the purpose? This is an advertorial placed in the Telegraph by DCFC. I suspect Stephen Pearce is the mysterious source quoted in the story.

The 'story' is... Come talk to us. We are open to hearing your investment ideas.

Edited September 24 by therealhantsram

[rammieib]

43 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Not surprised really. Even without my Rams goggs on, if I were in the market, Derby would definitely be on my list of clubs to have a very good look at at. One club city, stupidly loyal fanbase, 30K gates in any league and loads of history...

What's not to like?

If you want to lose a lot of money quite quickly…. Then yes I agree the attractiveness of the club is high up there.

[hales300k]

On 13/09/2024 at 13:44, Macintosh said:

I'm hopeful that Mel will agree to write a book about all of this one day, it would be an amazing story, and I dare say some on here would have no interest in reading a single word of it should it happen. I remain grateful for his time owning our club and his generosity. I don't think anyone could blame him of malice towards our club. The hardest bit would be the legal read of his story. There would be a lot of things he'd like to put straight.

I have recently been involved with the Sheffield United ex-chairman's memories, Kevin McCabe's Mucky Boots. He was principal shareholder since 1999 and then chairman when they had the lengthy legal fight over Carlos Tevez against the FA and Premier League for two years and many trips later to courts before being rewarded with a £15m settlement of the £50m sought against West Ham. Although he resigned in 2010 as chairman he was still the owner of the club and sought investment and gained it with Prince Abdullah bin Mosaad Al Saud of the Royal House of Saud – a 50 per cent stake. Then there was Ched Evans to sort. At that time they were said to be the richest UK football club. They were wrong, the Prince was not as rich as they thought, it was not the game changer they hoped for. We might have had a similar tale with our Prince if that had gone through. What many do not realise is that they are a randy lot, there are said to be around 15,000 of these princes and being added to generously. McCabe was also chairman of Sheffield FC, the world's oldest club. A true football fan and whose main (very successful) business interest was in property.

His hated predecessor, Mike McDonald, had wanted to merge the club with Wednesday and sell Bramall Lane. McCabe bought the club outright around the time Gadsby, Billy Davies took over here and had to sell his stake when he served a roulette notice on the Prince in 2017, giving him the option to sell his 50 per cent at £5m or buy McCabe's 50 per cent for the same price. The prince accepted that offer of owning the club outright after some legal battles. McCabe has many good memories of appointing Nigel Clough and what he achieved, got stuck in Division One for a lengthy time, and did make the leap to the Premier League.

I would recommend David Clowes reads Kevin's excellent book, what working with an investor entails, having to deal with representatives and how things can turn sour. Look at Chelsea right now, the fight between the two co-owners there after such a short time. Prince Abdullah tried to sell the club to Nigerian investors recently but failed, he claims he’d invested £40m from his resources to keep the club afloat. He should have a word with Mel, his investment must have been close to 6-7 times that plus many wrinkles and worries for his health. All he got for that was memories, some good, mostly bad. Choose wisely, David, if you do look for investment.

 

Interesting post Mac , will check out the book , went up to Bramall Lane on Saturday , they felt like a club on the up , but i think we are as well , i think David Clowes is a true fan , with the shrewd streak we need going forward , hope he`s a dominant voice , even if we bring in outside money 

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

Not surprised really. Even without my Rams goggs on, if I were in the market, Derby would definitely be on my list of clubs to have a very good look at at. One club city, stupidly loyal fanbase, 30K gates in any league and loads of history...

What's not to like?

We all feel like this . The 30k crowd , the ground , the history . Easily flipped into a Prem club . Sounds easy . But why aren’t the money men knocking our doors down ? Why would you spend a £Billion on Everton? Is it that hard to get out the Championship ? Or don’t  they see the potential in Rams to become Global? 

[Kernow]

Seems odd for Percy to do an article on something that has been known since before we were promoted. And why now? Suggests that it may be close to becoming something more serious, or we need the investment and want to drum up firm interest.

I do think that the last couple of months would've helped immeasurably in terms of improving our attractiveness to outsiders. We've recruited smartly and have started the season better than a lot would have expected too. The closer we get to January in a safe position, the more attractive we will be. If we can then ensure we will be in the Championship next season, then we might start to see some names thrown out into the media.

[KBB]

Our sales point should be "want a prem club? Gonna cost you hundreds of millions or even billions? Why not buy a ready to go champ club with little to no debt and comparable facilities and get promoted."

Sounds easy but the worry is what happens if we don't go up? Many yo yo Nd big clubs in the champs every season now.

Also would fans be happy if someone like Mike Ashley came in? What about the guy textor at Palace who tried to buy everton? What about the ownership battle at Chelsea take the lower of that?

Football is a strange old business.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

Could any of the GSE group be interested?

Tom Ricketts was part of a bid for Chelsea a couple of years ago. Bill Luby wanted to invest in Wycombe around 6 years ago. Both have obviously shown an interest in owning another football club since MM bought them out. Brett Wilson seemed to enjoy owning us more than any other, often standing in the away ends. 

[Topram]

36 minutes ago, Kernow said:

Seems odd for Percy to do an article on something that has been known since before we were promoted. And why now? Suggests that it may be close to becoming something more serious, or we need the investment and want to drum up firm interest.

I do think that the last couple of months would've helped immeasurably in terms of improving our attractiveness to outsiders. We've recruited smartly and have started the season better than a lot would have expected too. The closer we get to January in a safe position, the more attractive we will be. If we can then ensure we will be in the Championship next season, then we might start to see some names thrown out into the media.

Bbc radio Derby posted about it too, must be trying up intrest maybe 

[twelveincher]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Could any of the GSE group be interested?

Tom Ricketts was part of a bid for Chelsea a couple of years ago. Bill Luby wanted to invest in Wycombe around 6 years ago. Both have obviously shown an interest in owning another football club since MM bought them out. Brett Wilson seemed to enjoy owning us more than any other, often standing in the away ends. 

This was my first thought. With Appleby seemingly being one of the leading bidders during our time in admin, why wouldn’t he show interest again… especially with a lot of the barriers removed.

Sam Rush was recently spotted in the directors box at a Champ/L1 game, possibly still in the market.

[Ghost of Clough]

43 minutes ago, Kernow said:

Seems odd for Percy to do an article on something that has been known since before we were promoted. And why now? Suggests that it may be close to becoming something more serious, or we need the investment and want to drum up firm interest.

I do think that the last couple of months would've helped immeasurably in terms of improving our attractiveness to outsiders. We've recruited smartly and have started the season better than a lot would have expected too. The closer we get to January in a safe position, the more attractive we will be. If we can then ensure we will be in the Championship next season, then we might start to see some names thrown out into the media.

3 months to get money and plans in place for our January window - it could be the difference between top 2 and the Playoffs.