Derby v Shrewsbury Town - Match Day Thread

[Walkley Ram]

11 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

 

Wait... What?
From the same poster?
One having a dig at fans who are moaning about the poor quality of the football on show?
The other hinting that they are not themselves enamoured with the poor quality of the football on show?

I love this forum.

😁

 

My first post wasn't meant to be having a dig at anyone, was meant to be more "I'm going next week but you all think the football is crap so I'm less excited than usual". Crap joke on my part, so I understand how it looked how you took it.

[Walkley Ram]

12 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

As a fellow fan, I'm glad you're going next Saturday, and I'm glad you can't wait.

Not so sure about your joy at other folks' misery, though.  Makes you come across as a bit knobbish.  

I've no joy in anyone's misery watching the football on show at the moment. My post was meant to be sarcastic. Thanks for calling me a knob though, it's probably accurate.

[Inverurie Ram]

On 10/02/2024 at 17:16, HorsforthRam said:

NML losing possession easily again that led to their thrown in and to the goal. He’s done that a few times. Can’t shield the ball

 

On 10/02/2024 at 17:56, LeedsCityRam said:

Very frustrating, particularly given Bolton & Peterborough dropped points.

As others have mentioned, conceding late goals at home is becoming a recurring theme with this team. There seems to be a real reluctance to a) hold onto possession & b) slow the game down. We drop deeper when protecting leads at home & on the break, seem desperate to make the killer pass to score a deciding goal. Problem however is that the ball is often lost from the flick on/speculative ball/run into a load of their defenders...they then recycle the ball & come back at us with our defensive shape pulled out of position.

We can point to weak defending for the goal but we shouldn't be conceding the ball so easily in the first place. Get the ball on halfway line? Hold the bloody thing up & play it simple to move the team up the park. This is basic stuff we're not doing & it's going to cost us.

The basics are key and it’s been mentioned in previous matches threads by @FlyBritishMidland myself and a few others, including Paul Warne mentioning how important they were, in our victory away at Charlton.

I have only seen the highlights of this match and I didn’t see the build up to the throw in, but @HorsforthRam mentioned NML, and it can happen, and it does happen with other players, that we have all seen in a few other matches, when they either over play it, hold on to the ball far too long, or add in additional step overs, struggle to shield the ball, put in a poor pass, to put a team mate under pressure etc,  forcing other players to then also to fail, to do the basics, which is usually down to making the quick decision, of controlling it and passing it on, in a comfortable manner and therefore keeping us in position, instead of the knock on effects it has on the team and usually the result, when we fail to be good at the basics.

From only watching the highlights it looked like we created a few good opportunities to score that second goal, but on this occasion, were not far away from doing so.

Up The Rams 🐏

[Van der MoodHoover]

56 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I've no joy in anyone's misery watching the football on show at the moment. My post was meant to be sarcastic. Thanks for calling me a knob though, it's probably accurate.

Misery is my oxygen....😉

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

I genuinely believe the only reason we are anywhere this year is because the division is the worst it's been in years. The likes of Ipswich, Plymouth and Wednesday last year were levels above any team in league one this year. I think this crappy division masks just how poor we are. We're rubbish, I don't care if we're sat in second. The eye test is a complete giveaway. 

Unfortunately you have nailed it - Are we any better than last year - er No - have we gained any better players? Hmm not really Have we lost any better players ? Well yes in my opinion McGoldrick and Knight - have we been served with a feast of entertainment at home to the paying home fans? - Absolutely not in my humble opinion 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

I genuinely believe the only reason we are anywhere this year is because the division is the worst it's been in years. The likes of Ipswich, Plymouth and Wednesday last year were levels above any team in league one this year. I think this crappy division masks just how poor we are. We're rubbish, I don't care if we're sat in second. The eye test is a complete giveaway. 

Ipswich 100%.

Plymouth better but not by miles.

Sheffield Wednesday I would argue are on a par with the best teams this year. They went on a massive losing streak remember and stumbled over the line.

[Inverurie Ram]

On 10/02/2024 at 17:56, LeedsCityRam said:

Very frustrating, particularly given Bolton & Peterborough dropped points.

As others have mentioned, conceding late goals at home is becoming a recurring theme with this team. There seems to be a real reluctance to a) hold onto possession & b) slow the game down. We drop deeper when protecting leads at home & on the break, seem desperate to make the killer pass to score a deciding goal. Problem however is that the ball is often lost from the flick on/speculative ball/run into a load of their defenders...they then recycle the ball & come back at us with our defensive shape pulled out of position.

We can point to weak defending for the goal but we shouldn't be conceding the ball so easily in the first place. Get the ball on halfway line? Hold the bloody thing up & play it simple to move the team up the park. This is basic stuff we're not doing & it's going to cost us.

Up The Rams 🐏

Edited February 11 by Inverurie Ram

[Walkley Ram]

20 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Misery is my oxygen....😉

Then you support the right club.

[Jourdan]

@Andicis it’s not just you, but you are the most recent culprit. 

I don’t get this constant need to discredit the league and the teams within in it. It’s league football and each league every season is tough in its own way. A new season brings change, new opportunities, new variables and also new challenges.

You take it for what it is, surely? 46 games. 3 points for a win. You don’t get an extra special trophy for getting promoted one year over the other, do you?

Shall we forget the open top bus parade, the medals, and the ticker tape because we are playing Blackpool, Reading, Northampton and Orient rather than Ipswich, Wednesday, Morecambe and Forest Green?

Or shall we bow out of the promotion race altogether and wait to test ourselves against the might of QPR, Rotherham, Wednesday and Stockport? 

Eye test this, eye test that. The eye test will show some good and some bad, of course it will. We are currently League 1 level and everything points to that. Ultimately we are a work in progress. You may want to ignore it, you may want to qualify it, but there is progress nevertheless.

Look at this season itself. We’ve gone from getting 21 points from 14 games earlier in the season and looking barely like a top half team, compared to 39 points from 17 games most recently and now being amongst the main contenders for promotion.

Everyone wants to focus on the fact we are not Man City Lite. Everyone wants us to be more like Peterborough and Oxford (who are stuttering and seemingly slipping out of contention might I add).

No-one wants to give Warne and the players credit for finding the belief, character, and consistency to turn the season around and no-one wants to give Warne and the players any credit for showing even more character and toughness to dig in and continue getting results to keep us in the hunt while those much-fabled footballing sides begin to fade.

Yesterday could still be a very important point.

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Inverurie Ram said:

Up The Rams 🐏

What? Arthur Cox and Paul Warne? Ha ha ha ha ha...

[Andicis]

40 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

@Andicis it’s not just you, but you are the most recent culprit. 

I don’t get this constant need to discredit the league and the teams within in it. It’s league football and each league every season is tough in its own way. A new season brings change, new opportunities, new variables and also new challenges.

You take it for what it is, surely? 46 games. 3 points for a win. You don’t get an extra special trophy for getting promoted one year over the other, do you?

Shall we forget the open top bus parade, the medals, and the ticker tape because we are playing Blackpool, Reading, Northampton and Orient rather than Ipswich, Wednesday, Morecambe and Forest Green?

Or shall we bow out of the promotion race altogether and wait to test ourselves against the might of QPR, Rotherham, Wednesday and Stockport? 

Eye test this, eye test that. The eye test will show some good and some bad, of course it will. We are currently League 1 level and everything points to that. Ultimately we are a work in progress. You may want to ignore it, you may want to qualify it, but there is progress nevertheless.

Look at this season itself. We’ve gone from getting 21 points from 14 games earlier in the season and looking barely like a top half team, compared to 39 points from 17 games most recently and now being amongst the main contenders for promotion.

Everyone wants to focus on the fact we are not Man City Lite. Everyone wants us to be more like Peterborough and Oxford (who are stuttering and seemingly slipping out of contention might I add).

No-one wants to give Warne and the players credit for finding the belief, character, and consistency to turn the season around and no-one wants to give Warne and the players any credit for showing even more character and toughness to dig in and continue getting results to keep us in the hunt while those much-fabled footballing sides begin to fade.

Yesterday could still be a very important point.

It's relevant when appraising the team and the manager. I sincerely do not believe we've gotten better since last season, I just think the competition is worse. As a result, I find that concerning because on that basis we haven't made progress. Which leads me then to question why that is. 

The eye test shows we've been poor. We can all look at the league table and stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that everything is brilliant, but it isn't is it? The football we play is largely rancid, and only by the virtue of being less shocking then these other crap teams we come up against, we pick up points. 

It's not about being especially good to get promoted against better teams, it's that I want long term success for this club. In the short term, we may well get promoted. I have a horrible feeling about what will happen if we do though. I don't think we're close to good enough to playing in the league above. I want long term, sustainable success for the club. And yes it has to start somewhere, but I actually don't think we're going in the right direction for that. It's a genuine concern.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Ipswich 100%.

Plymouth better but not by miles.

Sheffield Wednesday I would argue are on a par with the best teams this year. They went on a massive losing streak remember and stumbled over the line.

Wednesday got 96 points. Plymouth got 101. These teams are miles better. No team will come close to that this year. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

20 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Wednesday got 96 points. Plymouth got 101. These teams are miles better. No team will come close to that this year. 

Well see at the end of the season.

Sheffield we’re not all that good as is clear from the champ league table.

[europia]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Unfortunately you have nailed it - Are we any better than last year - er No - have we gained any better players? Hmm not really Have we lost any better players ? Well yes in my opinion McGoldrick and Knight - have we been served with a feast of entertainment at home to the paying home fans? - Absolutely not in my humble opinion 

Achieving both success and entertaining football was always going to be a stretch once Warney was appointed. Nevertheless, considering what the club has gone through recently, many (including myself) would be willing to sacrifice a season (or two) of attractive football, just to get out of a dire L1 and have a crack at surviving in the Ch'ship.

As others have pointed out, despite being 2nd in the league, we are not very convincing at the moment. Perhaps this group of players (and probably the management) just aren't quite good enough / ruthless enough to win the crucial games that could secure an automatic promotion place. Chucking the game against Shrewsbury being typical, there are many other examples. In all likelihood we will be relying on teams around us messing up, if we're to avoid the dreaded play offs. 

[jono]

12 hours ago, SSD said:

The players can have lapses in concentration, that happens to every team and late goals goes for and against us. The manager tells the players what do, how to set up, where to play the ball, movements going forward. I think the squad is good enough to play with more control, more fluidity, wearing sides out by actually keeping the ball. There was a couple of times where it was one touch passing and we got into their box, really good football. If we just kept the ball better, Shrewsbury would have burnt out in the end. Their quality of pass was awful and we kept gifting them opportunities to knock the ball in the channels once their subs came on.

The manager does not want the team to retain the ball, hence why every side we face regardless of quality keeps having chances. We should be killing teams off, not just with the scoreline but making them run around and tiring them out. We could easily pick teams off but Warne's style of football makes it very difficult to put games to bed. I don't think many folks are moaning for the sake of it, even if I don't agree with some of their points. The team is not playing smartly enough in a "bad patch" where we are picking up points but it is a chore to see to 90 minutes. We should not be breathing a sigh of relief thinking I'm glad we've like some points here like underdog smaller club with a small budget. 

 

A lot of red ink there. Not entirely sure what significance it has ? I do see some of your points but too much is based on your premis that “Warne doesn’t want his team to retain the ball” honestly mate that’s garbage. All managers want their team to retain the ball and Warne is no different. Sure Cocu wanted possession at all costs with sidey backwards at the back. Nice idea but if the quality isn’t there it doesn’t work. 
 

We’ve got some good players but “good” is relative and we are in league one. Many of our better players are past their peak. 
I cannot think of a manager that would get us; with our current squad, with the restrictions we are under, in the league we are in ….. suddenly playing total football and getting points. 
 

Players have to pass accurately, predict a runners next move, read a bounce, time a tackle or simply have the pace, skill and confidence to beat a man. I contend that If we did that regularly then Warne’s football would no be as bad as you suggest 

[May Contain Nuts]

23 minutes ago, jono said:

A lot of red ink there. Not entirely sure what significance it has ?

This happens to me sometimes when writing a post on my phone, it's not intentional. I'll go to correct a typo and instead of just changing the one word it changes a whole load of text to red. 

No idea why this happens, especially when there isn't actually a function on the forum to use different text colours, but unless you copy/paste the text, clear the editor and start again you can't get rid of or alter it.

Edited February 11 by May Contain Nuts

[Jourdan]

54 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's relevant when appraising the team and the manager. I sincerely do not believe we've gotten better since last season, I just think the competition is worse. As a result, I find that concerning because on that basis we haven't made progress. Which leads me then to question why that is. 

The eye test shows we've been poor. We can all look at the league table and stick our fingers in our ears and pretend that everything is brilliant, but it isn't is it? The football we play is largely rancid, and only by the virtue of being less shocking then these other crap teams we come up against, we pick up points. 

It's not about being especially good to get promoted against better teams, it's that I want long term success for this club. In the short term, we may well get promoted. I have a horrible feeling about what will happen if we do though. I don't think we're close to good enough to playing in the league above. I want long term, sustainable success for the club. And yes it has to start somewhere, but I actually don't think we're going in the right direction for that. It's a genuine concern.

A lot of this is unfounded though. You may have a horrible feeling about going up this season, but what actually happens when we do could be drastically different.

There is no real rhyme or reason to what makes a club more likely to succeed in the Championship upon promotion, let’s be honest. Three teams go up and have the summer to lay the best possible groundwork. Some teams fight relegation, some teams stabilise and then some teams somehow find themselves battling for promotion. There are very rarely tell tale signs from the season before.

Why is it Ipswich are in the promotion places this season - why have they adapted so much better than Wednesday and Plymouth who were separated by five points the previous year?

Why is it Sunderland went from scraping their way up in the play-offs in League 1 in 2022 to finishing in the Championship top six in 2023?

Why is it Luton and Coventry were able to stabilise themselves in the Championship and then challenge for promotion (and in Luton’s case actually get promoted) where other clubs didn’t?

We all want long-term success for the club but it starts with short term success and taking an opportunity and not looking back. There is no perfect timing. We could sack Warne tomorrow, appoint a different manager, spend two years building the team in the fans’ vision and still go straight back down.

We’ll never get anywhere if we are paralysed by the fear of what might be ahead. If we go up this season, we have to grab the opportunity with both hands and see where it takes us.

[DRBee]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

 

No-one wants to give Warne and the players credit for finding the belief, character, and consistency to turn the season around and no-one wants to give Warne and the players any credit for showing even more character and toughness to dig in and continue getting results to keep us in the hunt while those much-fabled footballing sides begin to fade.

 

No-one wants to give Warne credit - just garbage. Like the vast majority I was well pleased with the post -Stevenage improvement. But by focussing on points scored you can skate over the fact that the original  faults have been evident in quite a few games we have won and have not gone away. Faults like our excess caution , the predictability that comes from the repeated playing down the wings and limitations of playing one up front most of the time remain and are down to the manager. Not sure if you go to games but its depressing to travel a long way to the match only for us limply to concede an equaliser in the closing minutes, which has happened quite a few times recently. I think our squad is good but Our defence has a good record but these late goals are often conceded after substitutions supposed to enable us to see out the game.

[Jourdan]

3 minutes ago, DRBee said:

No-one wants to give Warne credit - just garbage. Like the vast majority I was well pleased with the post -Stevenage improvement. But by focussing on points scored you can skate over the fact that the original  faults have been evident in quite a few games we have won and have not gone away. Faults like our excess caution , the predictability that comes from the repeated playing down the wings and limitations of playing one up front most of the time remain and are down to the manager. Not sure if you go to games but it’s depressing to travel a long way to the match only for us limply to concede an equaliser in the closing minutes, which has happened quite a few times recently. I think our squad is good but Our defence has a good record but these late goals are often conceded after substitutions supposed to enable us to see out the game.

Only garbage, in your opinion. We win games and people still want to drag Warne and the players over the coals.

Are you still not pleased? We’ve gone from being 15 points off top to now potentially as little as three points if we win our game in hand. 

Which team at League 1 level will be without its faults or weaknesses? None. The key is finding a way to ensure your weaknesses are not regularly taken advantage of.

We have lost two in 17, compared with five in 14 earlier in the season. We have won 12, compared with just 6 in that same earlier spell. So clearly while we are not perfect, we are doing something right in that regard.

I go to as many games as I can. I watch as many games as I can. I’ll be there on Tuesday, for instance. I don’t feel depressed by the prospect. We might play badly and win. We might play well and lose. We might play badly and lose. We might play well and win. I couldn’t call it. It comes with the territory of supporting a team currently in League 1 and their typical limitations.

You say it’s depressing. Would you be happier being in Peterborough’s position, losing their grip on their place in the automatic promotion race? Playing better football but losing 5-2 to struggling Wycombe?

[Crewton]

Let's not get promoted, just in case we're not good enough for the championship?

Ducking hell 🙄