Pro Warne

[CongletonRam]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nope. The majority you talk of are actually Derby fans who feel it is necessary to get behind the manager (any manager of Derby that is).

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

My son-in-law is a huge football fan. 
 

He told me last night that he can watch most games regardless of quality but that the standard of the Derby game on Saturday was so poor he had to switch off.

I keep hearing what a strong squad we have but I suspect a neutral view would be that we’re a bang average bunch.

I don’t think any new manager will wave a magic wand and turn us into Man City. All we could hope for is an improvement in passing and more attacking intent.

 

And Warne claims we played well ..... he needs to take more personal responsibility. 

[DRBee]

3 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

One of the most precious things Derby has, both for manager, players , owner and ourselves is the high attendances. That will be squandered  next season if the dross continues.

 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

Only promotion will change the fans mind about the turgid football. Without promotion Clowes will be losing more money than he is now. 

[BondJovi]

Just now, CongletonRam said:

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

Extenuating circumstances?

Oh come off it. The above applied to Cocu, Rooney, Rosenior. Warne is managing in the best situation since Lampard. Probably even before then.

This is an ideal situation for any manager to build the club the way he wants. Are fans really in the wrong for expecting much better from a supposed promotion expert in this league.

This should be an exciting time for the club and we are on the brink of losing all the goodwill. There are many posters on here whose footballing opinion I greatly respect and I don't see much love for Warne. 

Clowes gave the 4 year contract because he believed Warne would grow with the club, that Warne would step up. The only thing I see is a man struggling to handle the situation, the size of club, the pressure the expectation brings. I don't believe he can shake the shackles of being an underdog.

[BathRam72]

For what it is worth. The players have to take some responsibility. 

Everyone saying we aren't playing them in positions that suit their style of play is fine, I get that.

However most people would agree that most of our players are or in paper at a standard above this league.

So why aren't they playing like it? Even if they aren't in their favoured positions they should still be able to play football.  So why, when they are out of position,  do they lose the ability to pass, control the ball, read the game?

Edited October 23, 2023 by BathRam72

[angieram]

This is a very small sample size. 5 of us who go home and away regularly. Never boo, get behind the team, quite good vocal support. Well past our first flush of youth! 😉

We were 4 - 1 in favour of his appointment (me being the 1 against) and stayed that way right through last season. 

Pre-season we thought we'd be flying, but the rest of us have become very disillusioned already and I'd say we are less "Warne out" than "it would be a relief if it did happen". 

What Warne talks about isn't what we are seeing. His negative mindset, lack of in-game management and ability to react to the opposition frustrates us. I'd say if we were forced into a vote we'd all vote out. 

I think @BondJovi's last paragraph for me sums up exactly how we are feeling. There's no growth.

If it is true that Clowes cannot afford to sack him, then I think he needs to sit down and have a serious talk with him about changing his approach to the game. An owner straying into onfield management is dangerous territory as we know to our cost, but what is the alternative at this stage?

[DCFC Kicks]

14 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

For what it is worth. The players have to take some responsibility. 

Everyone saying we aren't playing them in positions that suit their style of play is fine, I get that.

However most people would agree that most of our players are or in paper at a standard above this league.

So why aren't they playing like it? Even if they aren't in their favoured positions they should still be able to play football.  So why, when they are out of position,  do they lose the ability to pass, control the ball, read the game?

Lack of sharpness which should be gained in training sessions? Not being trained to move correctly off the ball to be in a position to receive a pass? 

I think when it happens to one player then you say its their fault, but if its the entire team that has to come from how they're coached surely? 

[duncanjwitham]

12 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

So why aren't they playing like it? Even if they aren't in their favoured positions they should still be able to play football.  So why, when they are out of position,  do they lose the ability to pass, control the ball, read the game?

Reading the game is the main thing you'll struggle with if you're playing out of position.  "Reading the game" is basically just knowing what's likely to happen, based on having been there and done it a load of times.  And if you haven't been there and done it before, you aren't going to have those instincts kick in, that muscle-memory take over.  You aren't going to just know whether to drop off or push up, whether to go with the guy or hand him off, whether to hold position or make that run in behind, because you haven't really had to make those exact same decisions (under match pressure) before.

The other stuff, I think we're struggling with it because of how we're setting up.  We're deliberately making the game stretched, chaotic, 100 miles an hour etc.  So you're asking players to pass and control and ball quicker, make harder and riskier passes, with fewer teammates nearby, under more pressure from opposing players, so it's no surprise we're doing it less well.  For example, if you tell Cashin to just play simple passes to Bird/Smith or out to his fullbacks he's going to make those every time. If you ask him to keep pinging first-time 50 yard passes out to the wingers, he's going to make those much less often.

[DCFC Kicks]

9 minutes ago, angieram said:

If it is true that Clowes cannot afford to sack him, then I think he needs to sit down and have a serious talk with him about changing his approach to the game. An owner straying into onfield management is dangerous territory as we know to our cost, but what is the alternative at this stage?

I just can't see how its possible for Warne to change his approach. I don't think he could even if he wanted to. The only way would be if different coaches were brought in to assist him, which is never going to happen.

There needs to be someone brought in with a knowledge of football to oversee it on behalf of Clowes and Pearce. At the moment Warne is the highest authority in footballing terms at the entire club, which is scary. 

[VulcanRam]

56 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

I think this is fair. Fans' views of Warne are based on what they see/hear once or twice a week. DC and SP's view and experiences of Warne and where the club is regards the rebuild are daily. 

I said in the mists of time when the first of a thousand threads/polls came out that I'd review at Christmas but most likely give it til the end of the season. At the moment it's pretty bad, I'm not enjoying it and it doesn't look great for him, but I've not changed my view; I'd still give him the full season to see what he can do. We're talking about a man's job and his family's livelihood here, you have to be fair.

If Clowes, who has a far more in-depth knowledge of what's happening behind the scenes than anyone here and can therefore take a far more holistic view, decides to make a change then no problem, I wouldn't be mourning his departure. But that's for the owner to decide, not us. 

 

[Walkley Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nope. The majority you talk of are actually Derby fans who feel it is necessary to get behind the manager (any manager of Derby that is).

Some people don't realise that supporting Derby doesn't mean blindly following a manager regardless.

 

37 minutes ago, angieram said:

This is a very small sample size. 5 of us who go home and away regularly. Never boo, get behind the team, quite good vocal support. Well past our first flush of youth! 😉

We were 4 - 1 in favour of his appointment (me being the 1 against) and stayed that way right through last season. 

Pre-season we thought we'd be flying, but the rest of us have become very disillusioned already and I'd say we are less "Warne out" than "it would be a relief if it did happen". 

What Warne talks about isn't what we are seeing. His negative mindset, lack of in-game management and ability to react to the opposition frustrates us. I'd say if we were forced into a vote we'd all vote out. 

I think @BondJovi's last paragraph for me sums up exactly how we are feeling. There's no growth.

If it is true that Clowes cannot afford to sack him, then I think he needs to sit down and have a serious talk with him about changing his approach to the game. An owner straying into onfield management is dangerous territory as we know to our cost, but what is the alternative at this stage?

Totally agree with all this, except for the first time ever with a Derby manager I've wanted him sacked for a while now (although I've hidden it well)

Would a director of football help? I think to start with it might have, but now I think we're too far down the river to turn back. I've always been against the DOF in principle, but now I see that they might have a use in making sure the footballing side of a club remains consistent. I think Warne's been given free reign to instill his football philosophy on the club, which I'd have always agreed with in principle, but now I can see the damage it can do.

Edited October 23, 2023 by oodledoodle

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Some people don't realise that supporting Derby doesn't mean blindly following a manager regardless.

 

Totally agree with all this, except for the first time ever with a Derby manager I've wanted him sacked for a while now (although I've hidden it well)

Would a director of football help? I think to start with it might have, but now I think we're too far down the river to turn back. I've always been against the DOF in principle, but now I see that they might have a use in making sure the footballing side of a club remains consistent. I think Warne's been given free reign to instill his football philosophy on the club, which I'd have always agreed with in principle, but now I can see the damage it can do.

You do know that we appointed a director of football around 8 months ago? 

[Walkley Ram]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

You do know that we appointed a director of football around 8 months ago? 

Wait, we did? That's absolutely passed me by. Who was it?

 

This seems to disagree https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-warne-rooney-rosenior-7620448

"Derby County have confirmed that there is 'no plan' to appoint a director of football despite Paul Warne being named as the club's head coach rather than the manager."

 

Edit to the above - no, you're right https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/23333540.derby-county-appoint-mark-thomas-director-football/

I want him sacked too then. I was under the impression he was here as head of recruitment, shows what I know.

 

Edit edit edit edit no, I was right. He's not director of football

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/club-directory

Head of Recruitment - Mark Thomas

Edited October 23, 2023 by oodledoodle

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Wait, we did? That's absolutely passed me by. Who was it?

 

This seems to disagree https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-warne-rooney-rosenior-7620448

"Derby County have confirmed that there is 'no plan' to appoint a director of football despite Paul Warne being named as the club's head coach rather than the manager."

I assume he means this guy:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/teams/player/ross-burbeary

But I don't think he's a Director of Football, at least in the sense you mean (as in overseeing the football side of things, above the managers head).

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, CongletonRam said:

Nope. The majority I talk are behind Warne as, aside from the turgid football, they can see the bigger picture and they recognise just what a difficult ob he has when you go through the many extenuating circumstances.

He needs and will be given time. I'll say it again, a few disgruntled fans won't change Clowes mind. He gave Warne a 4-year contract for a reason.

Well more fool him and more fool those that genuinely believe he will turn it around.

He has lost the players, once you do that there is no going back.

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I think Warne's been given free reign to instill his football philosophy on the club, which I'd have always agreed with in principle, but now I can see the damage it can do.

Has he and is he doing it? The tweet below about the Academy's latest video suggests Clowes wants 'the Derby Way' to be a 'possession-based, 'gegenpressing' style'. Someone needs to explain that to Warne! 

 

 

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

Wait, we did? That's absolutely passed me by. Who was it?

 

This seems to disagree https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-warne-rooney-rosenior-7620448

"Derby County have confirmed that there is 'no plan' to appoint a director of football despite Paul Warne being named as the club's head coach rather than the manager."

 

Edit to the above - no, you're right https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/23333540.derby-county-appoint-mark-thomas-director-football/

I want him sacked too then. I was under the impression he was here as head of recruitment, shows what I know.

 

Edit edit edit edit no, I was right. He's not director of football

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/club-directory

Head of Recruitment - Mark Thomas

Didn't know he was considered head of recruitment, remembered the word at the time was he was to be director of football so was just working on that basis! 

[Tamworthram]

21 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I just can't see how its possible for Warne to change his approach. I don't think he could even if he wanted to. The only way would be if different coaches were brought in to assist him, which is never going to happen.

There needs to be someone brought in with a knowledge of football to oversee it on behalf of Clowes and Pearce. At the moment Warne is the highest authority in footballing terms at the entire club, which is scary. 

Are you suggesting a director of football (although I’m never really sure what they do)? If so, it’s difficult to see how they could  influence what seem to be (to our non expert eyes) the key defects - coaching, tactics, formation and players playing in their best positions, without interfering. I reckon owners (DC) rarely have any in depth knowledge of how football is/should be played and CEO’s (SP) know how a club should be run but don’t/shouldn’t get involved in the actual performance side - that is the managers/head coaches actual job.

I honestly don’t know what the answer is. Until recently, I have been in the “keep PW” camp and let’s see if/when things improve. I’m probably just about still in that camp but it’s becoming more a case of blind faith than genuine expectation.

 

[Walkley Ram]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Has he and is he doing it? The tweet below about the Academy's latest video suggests Clowes wants 'the Derby Way' to be a 'possession-based, 'gegenpressing' style'. Someone needs to explain that to Warne! 

 

 

He's definitely instilled his own brand of football onto the squad, case in point when we were scared of Cheltenham's midfield so he told the team to stick to the wings.

Whether that aligns with what Clowes wants is another issue. I'm sure it's not Clowes who came up with the tactics of "kick it in the box and hope Collins is there"