Pro Warne

[Leicester Ram]

Sure this won’t be popular but I think Warne should have until Xmas to have us in the top six. I would call myself pro-stability rather than pro-Warne and I understand why so many of the fans have turned - we haven’t improved as quickly as any of us would want and we’re currently not good enough going forward.

But I’d say he deserves longer to fix that than it looks like he’s going to get.

My concern is that the fanbase seems to think that a change of manager could get us into the top two and speed up our promotion, I think that’s wrong - the top two is gone already imo and having another new manager coming in isn’t going to speed up our timeline. 

How many times this past decade have we sacked a manager because we thought it would get us promotion quicker? Look where we are now. I think that the fanbases expectations have been damaged by that and we’re now turning on managers quicker than we should.

If people are being real with themselves, how many of you are Warne out because you’re panicking that we’ll be in League One again next season? It’s short-termism. As much as Ipswich spent a few seasons more than they’d like in League One, they get promoted the right way and are reaping the benefits now.

Sacking another manager early into the season isn’t doing things the right way. Said this before but the day after the Villa playoff final, we had a squad made up of seven managers different signings. Whereas in 13/14, McClaren inherited a unified, hungry dressing room all signed by one manager.

Chopping and changing is what got us into this mess, we’ve just let a manager shape our squad and now we’re going to get rid of him before the halfway point of the season?

I see a lot of people talking about the top two - I thought that was unlikely after the first five games, it was an overhauled squad which was still adding players who were going to be in the starting XI (Fornah, John-Jules, Nyambe). It didn’t look cohesive and I didn’t think we’d have a good enough start to put together an automatics push. So far, that looks like an accurate assessment. 

Part of why I’ve had patience with Warne is that I think we were closer to starting from scratch than it looked on paper. I agree that the 5 at the back fiasco isn’t a good look but I don’t think the transition from this season to last season is as straightforward as some people make it out. That is partly Warne’s fault as he tried to change our system but I didn’t see many people on here this summer disagreeing with him switching to the back five/signing Sonny Bradley - it you were one of the five or so posters on here doing that, don’t quote this letting me know; I don’t give a toss

However, I think there is now a legitimate argument as to whether he sees out the season as I don’t think we’ve improved as quickly as anyone would like after that slow start. I would have said he has until the end of the season a month back so I’ve now sped that up to an assessment at Xmas

I’m personally disappointed with how quickly the fans have turned on Warne. Warne certainly deserves until Xmas to try to turn this around but the fans may drive him out; I don’t think that’s the sign of a healthy club, that decision should lie with Clowes and he shouldn’t be pressured into creating more turbulence at an already very turbulent club to satisfy the mob.

I will always be anti-booing the team/manager, our role at games should be as supporters and I think booing/chanting at Warne is more akin to acting like a customer.

And when people’s complaint is the football isn’t entertaining enough, you are definitely a customer rather than a supporter.

I don’t buy into this idea that we need to see entertaining football but what we do need is effective football.

My concern with Warne is I don’t think he knows how to get this team scoring 2+ goals per game regularly - as far as I’m concerned, the football can be as ugly as a sunburnt Susan Boyle as long as we’re scoring goals and winning games.

[Rich3478]

The big issue for me is I’m pretty sure any manager could be getting this out of the players, any change feels highly unlikely to make us worse. I don’t expect to be top two just because we’re derby in league.

I do expect to be beating teams like Cambridge, shrewsbury, Cheltenham though. 

[RodleyRam]

6 hours ago, angieram said:

This is a very small sample size. 5 of us who go home and away regularly. Never boo, get behind the team, quite good vocal support. Well past our first flush of youth! 😉

We were 4 - 1 in favour of his appointment (me being the 1 against) and stayed that way right through last season. 

Pre-season we thought we'd be flying, but the rest of us have become very disillusioned already and I'd say we are less "Warne out" than "it would be a relief if it did happen". 

What Warne talks about isn't what we are seeing. His negative mindset, lack of in-game management and ability to react to the opposition frustrates us. I'd say if we were forced into a vote we'd all vote out. 

I think @BondJovi's last paragraph for me sums up exactly how we are feeling. There's no growth.

If it is true that Clowes cannot afford to sack him, then I think he needs to sit down and have a serious talk with him about changing his approach to the game. An owner straying into onfield management is dangerous territory as we know to our cost, but what is the alternative at this stage?

Not the first time I completely agree with you. 

I personally didn't want Warne in the first place but I want to be pro-Warne. What he says most of the time I agree with, he seems very likable as a person and clearly wants to do well, no lack of effort or heart. For that reason I really want it to work but what he says and what happens on the pitch just isn't translating. I don't think we've improved on the pitch for all of the cultural and psychology stuff.

I think we have the players to be better than what we've seen and where we are in the league, and I appreciate it takes time to gel but in over a year I don't think we are better than when he joined, which is really disappointing.

So it has to come down to the players underperforming, or the management getting it wrong. It could be a bit of both but ultimately the management is responsible.

I'm really struggling to see how it is going to get better at this point. I said give it until Christmas but think there has to be a clear direction from DC that things have to improve over the next 5 games or something is going to give. 

Who'd be a football club owner?!

[RoyMac5]

58 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I hope so. Succeeding with Warne is still (obviously) the best case scenario for the club.

Not if you have hopes for the Academy players.

[May Contain Nuts]

49 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

Sure this won’t be popular but I think Warne should have until Xmas to have us in the top six. I would call myself pro-stability rather than pro-Warne and I understand why so many of the fans have turned - we haven’t improved as quickly as any of us would want and we’re currently not good enough going forward.

But I’d say he deserves longer to fix that than it looks like he’s going to get.

My concern is that the fanbase seems to think that a change of manager could get us into the top two and speed up our promotion, I think that’s wrong - the top two is gone already imo and having another new manager coming in isn’t going to speed up our timeline. 

How many times this past decade have we sacked a manager because we thought it would get us promotion quicker? Look where we are now. I think that the fanbases expectations have been damaged by that and we’re now turning on managers quicker than we should.

If people are being real with themselves, how many of you are Warne out because you’re panicking that we’ll be in League One again next season? It’s short-termism. As much as Ipswich spent a few seasons more than they’d like in League One, they get promoted the right way and are reaping the benefits now.

Sacking another manager early into the season isn’t doing things the right way. Said this before but the day after the Villa playoff final, we had a squad made up of seven managers different signings. Whereas in 13/14, McClaren inherited a unified, hungry dressing room all signed by one manager.

Chopping and changing is what got us into this mess, we’ve just let a manager shape our squad and now we’re going to get rid of him before the halfway point of the season?

I see a lot of people talking about the top two - I thought that was unlikely after the first five games, it was an overhauled squad which was still adding players who were going to be in the starting XI (Fornah, John-Jules, Nyambe). It didn’t look cohesive and I didn’t think we’d have a good enough start to put together an automatics push. So far, that looks like an accurate assessment. 

Part of why I’ve had patience with Warne is that I think we were closer to starting from scratch than it looked on paper. I agree that the 5 at the back fiasco isn’t a good look but I don’t think the transition from this season to last season is as straightforward as some people make it out. That is partly Warne’s fault as he tried to change our system but I didn’t see many people on here this summer disagreeing with him switching to the back five/signing Sonny Bradley - it you were one of the five or so posters on here doing that, don’t quote this letting me know; I don’t give a toss

However, I think there is now a legitimate argument as to whether he sees out the season as I don’t think we’ve improved as quickly as anyone would like after that slow start. I would have said he has until the end of the season a month back so I’ve now sped that up to an assessment at Xmas

I’m personally disappointed with how quickly the fans have turned on Warne. Warne certainly deserves until Xmas to try to turn this around but the fans may drive him out; I don’t think that’s the sign of a healthy club, that decision should lie with Clowes and he shouldn’t be pressured into creating more turbulence at an already very turbulent club to satisfy the mob.

I will always be anti-booing the team/manager, our role at games should be as supporters and I think booing/chanting at Warne is more akin to acting like a customer.

And when people’s complaint is the football isn’t entertaining enough, you are definitely a customer rather than a supporter.

I don’t buy into this idea that we need to see entertaining football but what we do need is effective football.

My concern with Warne is I don’t think he knows how to get this team scoring 2+ goals per game regularly - as far as I’m concerned, the football can be as ugly as a sunburnt Susan Boyle as long as we’re scoring goals and winning games.

No disrespect meant LR but that's largely just a list of assumptions and generic excuses that don't necessarily hold up to scrutiny.

Whilst I can't speak for everyone, many who are concerned about Warne aren't concerned because we'll miss out on promotion this season. They're concerned that even if we do end up getting promoted he's already shown us that he's not a good enough manager to keep a team in the Championship, nor has he shown anything after a year in charge to suggest he has anything in the tank to ensure we wouldn't suffer the same fate next year even should he get us promoted.

The feeling isn't that it's budgetary matters and/or the quality of player he had at his disposal which saw his Rotherham sides relegated, but that his style of play simply doesn't work in the league above because it's so easily countered by managers with a better grasp on tactical nuance. It's that his style of play doesn't even work in this league when you're a big fish in a small pond because it relies on you playing the underdog.

I'm not sure mentioning Ipswich helps make your point. They went up the right way, yes, but they also went up playing a style of football which clearly still works when scaled up.

The reason we're "closer to starting from scratch than it looked on paper" is (IMO) because Warne has failed to make best use of the players he inherited, and because he didn't come into this season with with an adequate plan that considered how those players would mesh with the new players. Needing more time because you've made a hash of your preparations for the season isn't a particularly good argument for being given more time(!), but that's where the relationship between Clowes and Warne comes into it. 

Do I trust Warne to further develop the squad and turn it into something watchable and sustainable that sees us go up and stay up? Not on your nelly. Does Clowes? It would appear (at this juncture) that he does.

All the stuff about it being the changing of managers being to blame for the mess we got into is the standard go-to reason for sticking with him but it doesn't consider that the real problem was changing the style of the manager after chucking large amounts of money at players who don't suit the next man in line. Changing managers can't in and of itself be used as the reason we ended up in the position we did, or used as a definitive reason not to make another change. (Again, IMO)

You talk of Warne not improving quickly enough, and that's true. Surely it's understandable though, when he was brought in as (pretty much) the finished article? He simply shouldn't still be getting to grips with the job a year in.

Otherwise, I agree completely, and it's nice to see a post from you 👍 😃

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[WilkoRam]

I’m not personally panicking due to the thought of being in league 1 next season. As I’ve said previously I’d be ok with that as long as it was entertaining to watch and, for me, it simply isn’t. If I could see something which made me think “we’re not picking up points but I see what we’re trying to do and how we’re trying to develop” then I’d be backing him.

I also can’t get behind setting a specific time I.E. give him until Xmas. What if we lost the next 4 games, getting tonked every game? Would that change? I understand wanting to give it time and not wanting another change of manager. After everything the club has been through we’re screaming out for stability, but at what point does that stability actually become instability due to going backwards?

[S8TY]

Is anyone actually watching/ going to the games ??

The football is clueless…I’ll sum it up …we are away to Cheltenham and Shrewsbury and we bypass the midfield and go wide and try crosses into the box when Collins is out wide ??

Zero creativity and midfieId are not looking like they are allowed to get forward and break the lines 

we never look like opening teams up with great passing or one twos and at home look totally devoid of ideas to open up sides who basically sit in 

I could go on and on and on ….but I won’t!!!!

[Walkley Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not if you have hopes for the Academy players.

I'd take him using the academy as succeeding. I don't believe it'll happen, but it's still best case scenario.

[Tamworthram]

18 minutes ago, S8TY said:

Is anyone actually watching/ going to the games ??

The football is clueless…I’ll sum it up …we are away to Cheltenham and Shrewsbury and we bypass the midfield and go wide and try crosses into the box when Collins is out wide ??

Zero creativity and midfieId are not looking like they are allowed to get forward and break the lines 

we never look like opening teams up with great passing or one twos and at home look totally devoid of ideas to open up sides who basically sit in 

I could go on and on and on ….but I won’t!!!!

No. None of us.😀

[SillyBilly]

I was on record saying Warne had this full season to prove his promotion credentials after the signifcant drop off back end of last year. By promotional credentials I was inferring a top 2 push (given the quality of the rest of the league), it is suprising we are where we are, and quite frankly, embarrassing for a club of our stature. No disrespect for the opposition. I now say he has until Xmas to keep pace (lose no further ground) and preferably make up points on the top 6. That would convince me he warrants the second half of the season to try and improve further still, we've seen big turnarounds before. His record suggests a little more time on that basis. If we're still languishing around midtable at Xmas, or worse then he needs to go. It wouldn't be too late for someone else to come in at that point and with some good form make 6th. So not in favour of throwing the whole season away is my new position and Warne has a couple of months to prove he can get through this patch. I don't think he has responded amazingly well to the criticism, but then again I can allow anyone to to vent. It is becoming somewhat apparent he is isn't used to managing this level of expectation, we're essentially at our historic lowest at this point and he'd do well to acknowledge that, we're not used to being humbled by such opposition on an almost weekly basis, and then being told we're playing well against them. I felt Rosenior was very hard done by when he was replaced, not bashing DC too much as on paper I thought he played a blinder getting Warne in, why wouldn't he have? The guy is a serial winner at this level...or so we thought. Just concerned by the length of the deal.

 

[TINMANTED]

18 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

I was on record saying Warne had this full season to prove his promotion credentials after the signifcant drop off back end of last year. By promotional credentials I was inferring a top 2 push (given the quality of the rest of the league), it is suprising we are where we are, and quite frankly, embarrassing for a club of our stature. No disrespect for the opposition. I now say he has until Xmas to keep pace (lose no further ground) and preferably make up points on the top 6. That would convince me he warrants the second half of the season to try and improve further still, we've seen big turnarounds before. His record suggests a little more time on that basis. If we're still languishing around midtable at Xmas, or worse then he needs to go. It wouldn't be too late for someone else to come in at that point and with some good form make 6th. So not in favour of throwing the whole season away is my new position and Warne has a couple of months to prove he can get through this patch. I don't think he has responded amazingly well to the criticism, but then again I can allow anyone to to vent. It is becoming somewhat apparent he is isn't used to managing this level of expectation,

Quote

we're essentially at our historic lowest at this point

and he'd do well to acknowledge that, we're not used to being humbled by such opposition on an almost weekly basis, and then being told we're playing well against them. I felt Rosenior was very hard done by when he was replaced, not bashing DC too much as on paper I thought he played a blinder getting Warne in, why wouldn't he have? The guy is a serial winner at this level...or so we thought. Just concerned by the length of the deal.

 

our lowest point is virtually warnes highest,as a yo yo manager,could this be the problem

[sage]

5 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I’m still pro-Warne, as much as I was at the start of the season. I think the players as a collective have a lot to answer for, and I don’t mean it as they aren’t trying or good enough, I just find them characterless and especially the ones Rosenior signed up. I think there’s a group of players there who have obviously not been resigned by other clubs because they were decent squad players but don’t consistently put in enough good dominating performances over a season. Ultimately I would put the likes of Bird and Sibley in a similar boat. Like last season, how much did we rely on McGoldricks goals? Yes, Warne has had a couple of transfer windows but they are players who are also taking up his budget and are difficult to shift. I said a few weeks ago but I’m reminded of the early Clough years in that he has players he needs shift but can’t until contracts run out, I still think that’s the case and if Clowes gets rid of Warne now I doubt we’d see a quick fix (and even if there was I’m not convinced we are in a position to compete in the championship just yet).

Thats not to say Warne hasn’t made mistakes, he had and continues to do so. The biggest was making Hourihane captain and the process he proudly told everyone about. I don’t think it helped the mentality and gave the players too much power in that moment when he’d presumably lined up the captaincy for Sonny Bradley. When I saw the video of Hourihane with the fans, I get the impression he’s I’m essentially saying ‘it’s not our fault’ as players and it didn’t fill me with confidence as a captain that the players fully behind what Warne is trying to do. It’s a lot to take from that video after a loss, but I’m just going on his body language and what he’s saying. I don’t think it’s a good look

I think he needed to bring Bradley into his 11 before now, which is a difficult decision due to the form of the defence but I think he needed his players with a fresh mentality in his 11. I don’t think he’s put enough of his stamp onto the squad just yet. Some of that has been because of the injuries to Ward and Elder as well, but I think the big thing is he’s missing is his leader on the pitch. Do we have anyone who’s really pointing fingers, getting others riled up or wanting to win? I don’t see it at the minute and I haven’t for a good while. 

It’s ultimately the mentality of the players to me, and Warne has to take the brunt of that. Tomorrow is huge for Warne’s future and I’ll be really interested to see what team he puts out, but I hope he is willing to have a bit of a reset rather than this wishy washy approach of having his style of play but having a formation that is trying to keep everyone happy. I think it’s time for Warne to set out a side and formation that he wants to work and bypass the players it doesn’t suit

Bold - Contradictions

Italics - Strawman nonsense

Underlined - He did play and was awful. 

Bold and underlined - If he hasn't done that already, he should stick to managing the Dog and Duck

[Tamworthram]

8 minutes ago, TINMANTED said:

our lowest point is virtually warnes highest,as a yo yo manager,could this be the problem

Having won promotion from this league 3 times we’re well short at the moment of Warne’s highest point.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

22 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Having won promotion from this league 3 times we’re well short at the moment of Warne’s highest point.

You wouldn't have thought so the way he practically shat his pants with joy at a coffee machine on his first day.

[CongletonRam]

9 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

He has lost the players, once you do that there is no going back.

And you know this how?

[RoyMac5]

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67199195

Boss Paul Warne says he "understands the dog's abuse" his Derby County side is getting and acknowledges that the job has been tougher than he expected.

There were boos for the Rams following Saturday's defeat by Shrewsbury, with captain Conor Hourihane going on to argue with some supporters.

The loss ended Derby's five-game unbeaten League One run and dropped them to 11th in the table.

"No-one wants their team booed off," Warne told BBC Radio Derby.

"No-one goes into work to get dog's abuse, but I understand it as well - they [fans] are disappointed with our level of performance and I know how emotional football is.

"Of course I understand it, but I can't say I like it.

"But if you want fans to get behind the team when they are winning and they are really emotional, the downside is that if things are probably not going as well they will be emotional.

"I understand it in the heat of the moment, after the game, and I'm aware of what happened.

"The lads aren't talking about it, it's not a big thing in the dressing room - they are not crying about it or anything."

Derby were seventh in the League One table when Warne took the job at Pride Park in September 2022, having left Championship side Rotherham to drop a division and join the Rams rebuild - after they were brought out of administration earlier that summer.

They eventually finished the campaign in that exact place in the table, missing out on the play-offs on the final day.

It was the first time Warne had managed in the division and failed to take a side up.

'Harder than I anticipated'

With a transfer embargo lifted in the summer, Derby were widely seen as favourites for promotion this season.

But with a quarter of the league campaign already gone, they are four points adrift of the top six and 13 off leaders Portsmouth.

"I'd like to say I'd come in on a horse with a magic stick and just get 40 wins, but it hasn't been the case," Warne said.

"It has probably been a bit harder than I anticipated.

"There have been really good signs, but Saturday really pulled the curtain back a little bit and I thought we are probably a little bit further off than I'd like to be.

"I don't think we are in a bad spot. If we scored in the last minute and got a point at the weekend it wouldn't feel so dramatic.

"And its not the lads' fault, but when they are the pre-season favourites to win the title, it comes with something and when you lose a game it is a bigger catastrophe. And no-one feels it greater than me."

[CongletonRam]

5 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Im not young unfortunately but can you tell me if you are enjoying the football being played?

No, I despise it.

It is quite possibly the worst football I have ever seen a Derby team play, certainly for a prolonged period of time.

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, sage said:

Bold - Contradictions

Italics - Strawman nonsense

Underlined - He did play and was awful. 

Bold and underlined - If he hasn't done that already, he should stick to managing the Dog and Duck

Bold- I’m sorry is it? FWIW, McGoldrick was a good footballer but I didn’t find him full of ‘character’ either on the pitch. I’m saying that without him it’s showing how much those goals covered up for the others. I think your just trying to undermine my point here tbh

Italics- that’s my opinion of what I saw in the moment. I don’t think it’s someone standing up for his team, it’s more just getting frustrated and having a strop. I didn’t think it was a good thing for a captain to go do or be seen doing. This is something that has been shared past our fanbase and has helped no one.

Underlined- Im talking about an actual run of games to get him in the side. We’ve quite obviously not seen the best of him yet and we lack leaders on the pitch. For all this ‘nonsense’ talk, can you honestly say you can see leaders/characters in this derby side?

Bold and underlined- Again I think you’re just passing off my point here.

I get im of the minority opinion of the ‘online’ fans and  not expecting everyone to agree but I’m just trying to put a different perspective on all this because frankly I find the Warne out brigade a bit boring and a bit naive. It largely puts me off posting at the minute tbh, I don’t think I’m spot on with everything I post, it’s more about offering debate which I don’t think many are interested in.

I think getting rid of Warne now is the exactly the same problem as what was happening under Morris. Just for example, Warne goes then what? New manager who suddenly has Roseniors players, Warne’s players then a few former youth players. Can’t bring in his own players, probably doesn’t have a budget to reshuffle in January. Again you are left in the Morris era scenario of managers having players they won’t want and can’t shift.

The crucial part of what happens next for Warne will be the impact Ward and Elder make, also I believe the introduction of Bradley and a fit John-Jules may be the answer to his woes but I think we need to see if it’s going to happen. Again, I probably need to lane clear to you that it’s just my opinion. 

At the same time I think there is stuff Warne is doing wrong and everything is ultimately his decisions. When I talk about a lack of characters/leaders that is on him in the end and may be a big factor in his downfall. I think tomorrow is a big night in his tenure as Warne and the players need to show a statement of intent, I’d be more on the Warne out side if we get more of our previous performances even if we scraped through and won 1-0 tbh. I want to see us start having control of the home games.

[TuffLuff]

5 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

Sure this won’t be popular but I think Warne should have until Xmas to have us in the top six. I would call myself pro-stability rather than pro-Warne and I understand why so many of the fans have turned - we haven’t improved as quickly as any of us would want and we’re currently not good enough going forward.

But I’d say he deserves longer to fix that than it looks like he’s going to get.

My concern is that the fanbase seems to think that a change of manager could get us into the top two and speed up our promotion, I think that’s wrong - the top two is gone already imo and having another new manager coming in isn’t going to speed up our timeline. 

How many times this past decade have we sacked a manager because we thought it would get us promotion quicker? Look where we are now. I think that the fanbases expectations have been damaged by that and we’re now turning on managers quicker than we should.

If people are being real with themselves, how many of you are Warne out because you’re panicking that we’ll be in League One again next season? It’s short-termism. As much as Ipswich spent a few seasons more than they’d like in League One, they get promoted the right way and are reaping the benefits now.

Sacking another manager early into the season isn’t doing things the right way. Said this before but the day after the Villa playoff final, we had a squad made up of seven managers different signings. Whereas in 13/14, McClaren inherited a unified, hungry dressing room all signed by one manager.

Chopping and changing is what got us into this mess, we’ve just let a manager shape our squad and now we’re going to get rid of him before the halfway point of the season?

I see a lot of people talking about the top two - I thought that was unlikely after the first five games, it was an overhauled squad which was still adding players who were going to be in the starting XI (Fornah, John-Jules, Nyambe). It didn’t look cohesive and I didn’t think we’d have a good enough start to put together an automatics push. So far, that looks like an accurate assessment. 

Part of why I’ve had patience with Warne is that I think we were closer to starting from scratch than it looked on paper. I agree that the 5 at the back fiasco isn’t a good look but I don’t think the transition from this season to last season is as straightforward as some people make it out. That is partly Warne’s fault as he tried to change our system but I didn’t see many people on here this summer disagreeing with him switching to the back five/signing Sonny Bradley - it you were one of the five or so posters on here doing that, don’t quote this letting me know; I don’t give a toss

However, I think there is now a legitimate argument as to whether he sees out the season as I don’t think we’ve improved as quickly as anyone would like after that slow start. I would have said he has until the end of the season a month back so I’ve now sped that up to an assessment at Xmas

I’m personally disappointed with how quickly the fans have turned on Warne. Warne certainly deserves until Xmas to try to turn this around but the fans may drive him out; I don’t think that’s the sign of a healthy club, that decision should lie with Clowes and he shouldn’t be pressured into creating more turbulence at an already very turbulent club to satisfy the mob.

I will always be anti-booing the team/manager, our role at games should be as supporters and I think booing/chanting at Warne is more akin to acting like a customer.

And when people’s complaint is the football isn’t entertaining enough, you are definitely a customer rather than a supporter.

I don’t buy into this idea that we need to see entertaining football but what we do need is effective football.

My concern with Warne is I don’t think he knows how to get this team scoring 2+ goals per game regularly - as far as I’m concerned, the football can be as ugly as a sunburnt Susan Boyle as long as we’re scoring goals and winning games.

Fully agree with all this, I think a lot of fans don’t realise that this isn’t a simple transition and the job Warne and Clowes have been doing since summer isn’t an easy one. It’s not a case of just getting this club back in the championship, it’s about us rebuilding an identity and it won’t happen over night.

Hence why I was trying to say earlier that about Warne needing to be stronger in his intents. The captaincy issue (imo) and the formation issue showed possibly a willingness to not be stubborn and worked for a few games, but I don’t think it’s worked in the longer term and has moved away from him putting his mark on that side, which is why we are seeing this uninspiring football. It’s arguable that the  players are in two minds about what they are doing much like Warne and his backroom staff are. 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

For the pro Warne, we are only one point behind Burton

For the rest we are below Burton

Nuff said