Derby v Shrewsbury (A) Match Thread

[Tamworthram]

8 minutes ago, strawhillram said:

Warne doesn’t have dcfc in his heart. In it for the money only

Well of course he is. Which manager isn’t? It’s a job they’re being paid to do.

[Archied]

9 minutes ago, strawhillram said:

Warne doesn’t have dcfc in his heart. In it for the money only

What football manager / player isn’t in it for the money , do well at Rotherham and step up , do well at derby and step up , do well at the next club and step up ect ect ect ,

There are many reasons to criticise warne but being in it for the money and not having derby in his heart is about as daft as it gets 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Matchday Fred]

The other thing to mention in terms of balance is we never know what happens behind the scenes re transfer activity. Seem to recall that there was a summer deal to transfer Cashin out and use the funds to beef up the striking dept (the guy from Peterboro’). That didn’t happen almost certainly through no fault of Warne’s. However, I would have gone striker before Bradley or Washington, neither has added anything to date. Easy to say with hindsight.

[strawhillram]

8 minutes ago, Archied said:

What football manager / player isn’t in it for the money , do well at Rotherham and step up , do well at derby and step up , do well at the next club and step up ect ect ect ,

There are many reasons to criticise warne but being in it for the money and not having derby in his heart is about as daft as it gets 🤷🏻‍♂️

He’s driving me insane

[DavesaRam]

Well, like many I haven't been happy for months, but have kept on turning up to matches because supporting the lads is what we do. But despite the ever falling performance standards I have always looked for the long term, in the hope of better times. This afternoon was the first time for year that I ended up with a really heavy heart.

Actually, once we had contained Shrewsbury's early bluster, we got a grip on the game, and played some good football for about 20 minutes or so. Bird in particular was outstanding, playing like he belonged higher up the League hierarchy. Incidentally someone criticised him for being gassed out at around the 60 minute mark, but I wonder if his influence tailing off had something to do with him being shifted further back so that Warne could bring his love-child (allegedly) Hourihane on. Conor did make a couple of tackles/interceptions which kept us in the game, but he is supposed to be a gifted playmaker, but today you'd never know. But our grip on the game came from us playing football, on the deck, and involving the midfield players.

Anyhow the Shrewsbury manager worked out how we had got a grip on the game and made changes which brought them back into it. Our approach seemed to be "more of the same, please". It doesn't work. Because our gameplan of slinging balls in for Collins to get on the end of would might work if he got on the end of them, but more often than not he is out on the wing, deep in midfield or just arriving in the box as the ball gets headed clear. But because that's all we have to offer, or more likely all we are allowed to offer, we end up with the potency of a eunuch's orgasm.

And yes, here goes DavesaRam again - the ref was absolutely crap, in fact so bad that he was nearly as bad as the Rams. Turning down a blazingly obvious penalty when Forsyth was tripped in the area was just an early warning sign. Somebody observed that because we didn't do much more than sling crosses in to nobody in particular, we didn't give him the chance to make amends. Apart from the question "Since when has a ref evened things up for Derby County?", he did the exact opposite with the award of a penalty to the Shrews for absolutely no reason at all. Rams TV thought the player had tripped on his laces - he didn't, he blatantly dived. and was 3 or 4 yards away from any Derby player. The Rams website said that it was for a pull by Nelson, but watch the video - the directions and trajectories of Nelson and the actor means that a pull was absolutely impossible. At least the ref was quick with his decision, ie he couldn't wait to pull the trigger. Why didn't the players all get round the ref and have a right good go at him? Like all other teams do? There were plenty of other incidents to lay at the refs door, but in the end, it wasn't his fault that we lost, despite us going ahead from the penalty we should have had would have helped us.

I am struggling big time over all this, as many, many more are doing, because most of us know that we are capable of much more than this. There is a well know saying, "If life gives you lemons, make lemonade". Even if Warne has inherited an absolute bunch of wasters, in an impossible situation, he could still look at what he has got and play to their strengths. Or he could use a great big sledgehammer and force all those lovely round pins into the square holes he imagines exist all over the pitch .......... no wait, that exist down the wings and somewhere near the middle of the opposition penalty area. I know that Paul Clement and Nigel Pearson threw away loads of our talent by trying to impose their system onto players who couldn't play it. Maybe some of the poor performance by some of the players comes from them being uncomfortable with how they are being told to play - I suspect Hourihane is in that category, and tried to face the fans to try and make some peace with them. I know what it is like working in an environment like that, especially when I knew how I should have been working. It is soul destroying, and saps away motivation. 

What a mess. And we thought we were done with messes. Apparently not.

Edited October 21, 2023 by DavesaRam

[Leeds Ram]

It's just so depressing. It's not even the results that are that bad, but it's the same tale week in and week out. I think if we don't beat Exeter, Clowes has to sack the bloke before this becomes a really big problem.  When you've got players verbally having it out with the fans, that's a failure of management and something that shouldn't be happening. Warne cowers down the tunnel while Hourihane is having it out with a section of the supporters, it's just such a farce. I think it's getting to the point he doesn't want to be here, an increasing % of fans don't want him here and it's best for everyone involved that his contract gets ripped up i think 

[TomTom92]

7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's just so depressing. It's not even the results that are that bad, but it's the same tale week in and week out. I think if we don't beat Exeter, Clowes has to sack the bloke before this becomes a really big problem.  When you've got players verbally having it out with the fans, that's a failure of management and something that shouldn't be happening. Warne cowers down the tunnel while Hourihane is having it out with a section of the supporters, it's just such a farce. I think it's getting to the point he doesn't want to be here, an increasing % of fans don't want him here and it's best for everyone involved that his contract gets ripped up i think 

Reckon deep down Warne knows the game is up. But for a man of morals he seems to be sniffing around for his juicy pay off. 

[InstaRam]

Wonder what all those chances that Warne is harping on that we've missed would be. The truth is that the Shrews were closer to 2-0. We currently have nothing to suggest that it will turn around.

The bitter truth is that we are embarrassingly bad unfortunately. To see Derby run over by modest opposition in L1 is depressing.

[Walkley Ram]

6 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Reckon deep down Warne knows the game is up. But for a man of morals he seems to be sniffing around for his juicy pay off. 

I don't have any questions about his morality, he's entitled to every penny we've promised him.

[TomTom92]

3 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I don't have any questions about his morality, he's entitled to every penny we've promised him.

He’s entitled by contract but surely there comes a stage where professional courtesy comes in to play. 
 
Stinking out the joint and making everyone’s lives miserable just for a extra few pennies is poor form in my opinion.

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

All the noise is about Hourihane having a chat with fans - not actually that heated as far as I could see. 

The bigger story is hundreds of fans…..who stopped until the end…..singing “Paul Warne your football is sh*t”

……and it was. Certainly for the first half. Yes, we created a couple of chances but no intention of playing football in midfield.

Better second half with a footballer replacing an athlete in midfield and can’t fault the effort of the players but a very poor show.

I suspect that song could now become a staple during games when things are going badly…..will DC put up with the South Stand singing it en masse?

I don’t boo our players, I don’t like obscene gestures being waved in the faces of our badly set up players after trying their best and I didn’t join in with song ….. but I agreed with the lyrics.

 

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I don't have any questions about his morality, he's entitled to every penny we've promised him.

That's correct.

And now - food for thought.

Are the people calling for his head willing to chuck a tenner in to pay his severance pay? The consensus seems to be that everybody, or at least the majority, according to @MackworthRamIsGod, want him gone. So let's say 15,000 people from our (dwindling) average home attendance all chuck a tenner in, that'll be £150,000 - a nice little earner, but probably less than 6 months salary.

Warne's still got 3 years or so on his contract, so even if my conservative (spit) estimate is half way to the correct ball-park, that'll be half a million to get rid. Chuck in his backroom and you can at least double that if you want a clean break before we start again - with no guarantees that his replacement will engineer any immediate improvement.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Eddie

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

He’s entitled by contract but surely there comes a stage where professional courtesy comes in to play. 
 
Stinking out the joint and making everyone’s lives miserable just for an extra few pennies is poor form in my opinion.

You’d have to hire an absolute loser of a manager to think his position is worth resigning 

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

You’d have to hire an absolute loser of a manager to think his position is worth resigning 

Comes a point where mental health etc must be considered. Cocu stuck his fingernails in for longer than he should, but eventually did the classy move and took a reduced pay off. Over to PW..

[Caerphilly Ram]

34 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Reckon deep down Warne knows the game is up. But for a man of morals he seems to be sniffing around for his juicy pay off. 

How have you come to this conclusion? I’ll admit there’s no sign of things getting better at the moment, but it’s not yet beyond saving, for it to be the scenario you’ve suggested here I’d expect things to be far far worse. If we’d lost 7 on the bounce and were rooted to the foot of the table with Warne trotting out platitudes then perhaps I can see some hint of your conclusion.
As it stands there’s a growing level of discontent, not full on rebellion, what signs are there that he’s “sniffing around for his juicy pay off”? It seems to me he’s just doing the job he’s paid to do currently (not as well as we’d like).

[TomTom92]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

How have you come to this conclusion? I’ll admit there’s no sign of things getting better at the moment, but it’s not yet beyond saving, for it to be the scenario you’ve suggested here I’d expect things to be far far worse. If we’d lost 7 on the bounce and were rooted to the foot of the table with Warne trotting out platitudes then perhaps I can see some hint of your conclusion.
As it stands there’s a growing level of discontent, not full on rebellion, what signs are there that he’s “sniffing around for his juicy pay off”? It seems to me he’s just doing the job he’s paid to do currently (not as well as we’d like).

Apart from 20 minutes at Peterborough and Blackpool this season has been dreadful. 
 
Two out of the last three away matches has seen a section of fans sing about PW style of play being poo. 
 
Of course PW can turn it around with only 11 matches gone but I can’t see any signs of a revival. 
 
Im not sure why we’re wanting to wait until we’ve flatlined before giving him the chop or expecting him to grow a conscience. If it’s not working then it’s not working. 

[DavesaRam]

49 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's just so depressing. It's not even the results that are that bad, but it's the same tale week in and week out. I think if we don't beat Exeter, Clowes has to sack the bloke before this becomes a really big problem.  When you've got players verbally having it out with the fans, that's a failure of management and something that shouldn't be happening. Warne cowers down the tunnel while Hourihane is having it out with a section of the supporters, it's just such a farce. I think it's getting to the point he doesn't want to be here, an increasing % of fans don't want him here and it's best for everyone involved that his contract gets ripped up i think 

Apparently according to a Rams Facebook group post Hourihane was saying that the players were doing the best they could with how they are being told to play, which many of us have suspected has been the case. So did the bus driver spot Warne's body a it was hurtling under his vehicle? Will Hourihane ever play for Derby again?

[Caerphilly Ram]

1 minute ago, TomTom92 said:

Apart from 20 minutes at Peterborough and Blackpool this season has been dreadful. 
 
Two out of the last three away matches has seen a section of fans sing about PW style of play being poo. 
 
Of course PW can turn it around with only 11 matches gone but I can’t see any signs of a revival. 
 
Im not sure why we’re wanting to wait until we’ve flatlined before giving him the chop or expecting him to grow a conscience. If it’s not working then it’s not working. 

It was more your suggestion Warne is morally questionable as he sniffs around for a payoff I was unsure on. 
 

He’s not delivering on fan’s expectations, agree there, seems a bit of leap to then say he knows the game is up and is just trying to get his pay off and needs to “grow a conscience”. It’s his job to manage the football team, he clearly thinks he has what it takes if some fans don’t, I’ve always found it weird that people choose to make it personal. Questioning the man’s morality and conscience because he’s not currently doing as good a job as we’d like just seems odd to me. 

[Mckram]

29 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That's correct.

And now - food for thought.

Are the people calling for his head willing to chuck a tenner in to pay his severance pay? The consensus seems to be that everybody, or at least the majority, according to @MackworthRamIsGod, want him gone. So let's say 15,000 people from our (dwindling) average home attendance all chuck a tenner in, that'll be £150,000 - a nice little earner, but probably less than 6 months salary.

Warne's still got 3 years or so on his contract, so even if my conservative (spit) estimate is half way to the correct ball-park, that'll be half a million to get rid. Chuck in his backroom and you can at least double that if you want a clean break before we start again - with no guarantees that his replacement will engineer any immediate improvement.

On the flip side for balance…can we afford to not get rid of him?

Say attendances drop 3,000 per game (which is not unrealistic at all and probably at the lower end), that’s potentially £75,000 per home match down on income.

Also add in player values…is Cashin still worth millions in January? If we don’t have an offer would he resign for us under Warne? Would any of our players want to stay under Warne and would any new players look at Derby in January/the summer and want to come and play this football?

If it is £1m to get rid then considering the above it would be a bargain at the minute. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

I wasn't following today as I went to see the mighty Winchester City lose 1-2 at home to Harrow.

Just one question tho.... can folks see a route to a better outcome?