Derby v Cheltenham (A) Match Thread

[Dava75]

8 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Managers are generally judged on results.

So generally we’re doing ok? We’ve not lost in 6 or (whatever it is now)? 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Archied]

Ok my take , wasn’t at the game but watched on rtv, 

first off I was happy with team selection but from there on in it was a bloody frustrating day , it could have been worse , we could have lost and there’s times over the last few years when we would have lost that game ,

the tempo and attitude from the start was wrong , now I’m not sure whether that’s down to the players or warne but my guess is a bit of both , on the warne prep I reckon there’s a very fine line between making sure players don’t have the attitude that they just have to turn up to win and having the arrogance and swagger to go out and batter them from the first whistle,

ive said for a few weeks that I reckon warne is under pressure and I’m not sure now how much he’s enjoying it which may quickly lead to a bit of a toxic situation and he could well walk away never mind be pushed though I truly believe the numbers at this point wanting warne out are nowhere near the numbers the few on here seem to think they are though it’s certain there are a few on here who are constant and a little too nasty to the bloke ,

international break and then the wins have to start flowing or I reckon he will be gone , December will turn out to be the line in the sand in my opinion on whether he stays or goes , we have a good squad and a January window,

on the game , fozzy had a stinker and my biggest bug bear with strikers is giving away stupid fouls that let the opposition out of pressure situations, Collins is a bloody nightmare in this regard and I would be fining him a days wages every time he does it , apart from that we were ok but just ok won’t cut it for much longer no matter what I think on whether he shoul be given time or sacked 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited October 8, 2023 by Archied

[hintonsboots]

New training equipment due to be delivered to Moor Farm tomorrow.

[Jimbo Ram]

52 minutes ago, Dava75 said:

So generally we’re doing ok? We’ve not lost in 6 or (whatever it is now)? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Depends how you see it really, 8th place in a pretty poor league. More importantly for me, pretty poor football.

[Kathcairns]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I gave you  a like for these! 

 

Need a poll on who can remember Rag, Tag and Bobtail Angie.😉

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

4 hours ago, jameso said:

That reminds me, I need to sort out my niece's wedding present.

But is the rest of it lyrics too? And if not, what do you mean?

Early Weddoes song titles but still more comprehensible than some recent posts. 

[Miggins]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

I gave you  a like for these! 

 

Happy days!!

[Dava75]

4 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Depends how you see it really, 8th place in a pretty poor league. More importantly for me, pretty poor football.

OK so not judged on results - as you originally implied? More important to you is the football? So you’d be happy to have lost the last 6 if we’d played good football?!  🤷🏼‍♂️

[Jimbo Ram]

23 minutes ago, Dava75 said:

OK so not judged on results - as you originally implied? More important to you is the football? So you’d be happy to have lost the last 6 if we’d played good football?!  🤷🏼‍♂️

Yes, a Manager is judged by results, if not how are they judged? On how unlucky they are? I would be more inclined to go and watch if the football was entertaining and good to watch. Is that not important in your view 🤔

[Carl Sagan]

10 hours ago, Thameram said:

Collins fluffed his lines again had enough chances to walk away with the match ball with a bit of composure can't blame warne for that move on 

I find these sorts of comments baffling. Warne picks the team. We can all see Collins is a terrible finisher and also that Warne needs to set up differently to make us more threatening. For me, it's absolutely Warne's fault that he's relying on Collins to take chances, without having us playing in a more dangerous way that creates better chances, and for better finishers.

[MaltRam]

Given the fact of this being only our sixth ever 3rd tier season, and given the record Cheltenham brought into the game...does Saturday go down as our worst ever league result?

Or is that too far?

[Foreveram]

11 minutes ago, MaltRam said:

Given the fact of this being only our sixth ever 3rd tier season, and given the record Cheltenham brought into the game...does Saturday go down as our worst ever league result?

Or is that too far?

You do know we didn’t lose, right?

[Leeds Ram]

10 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

You throw around the word hypocrisy quite a bit when often referring to two quite different situations TD. Would be asking Santa for an Oxford dictionary if I were you. 
 

Similar accusations of hypocrisy aimed at me when I had more patience and time for Clough than Warne despite me explaining how the situations were very different 🤷🏼‍♂️

It's because he uses a standard word definition and tries to pin you down on it. What he neglects are the natural complexities which come with the word, the meaning and the action.

[Leeds Ram]

11 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

 

I'm currently writing my thesis on why Paul Warne isn't doing a very good job. Once it's peer reviewed I'll let people on here read it.

I could technically peer review it 😉 

[MaltRam]

44 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

You do know we didn’t lose, right?

😉

[Dava75]

10 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Yes, a Manager is judged by results, if not how are they judged? On how unlucky they are? I would be more inclined to go and watch if the football was entertaining and good to watch. Is that not important in your view 🤔

I go whether the football is good or bad - but I go primarily because I want my team to win - and secondary to that is the desire to watch good football.

First you suggest a manager be judged on results but then you said “more importantly” was the football. So I was just checking which it was. If its results as you now state then I guess you’re “happy” that we’re unbeaten in 6? 🤷🏼‍♂️😉 🐏

 

[Jourdan]

10 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I find these sorts of comments baffling. Warne picks the team. We can all see Collins is a terrible finisher and also that Warne needs to set up differently to make us more threatening. For me, it's absolutely Warne's fault that he's relying on Collins to take chances, without having us playing in a more dangerous way that creates better chances, and for better finishers.

Forwards are expensive to acquire. Who could we have signed realistically that would have come here and we could have afforded given our financial limitations?

Nombe cost £800k - £1 million, for instance. How much would other high performing forwards at this level like Devante Cole or Colby Bishop have cost? Probably similar or more.

We have Waghorn and Collins in the top 10 of scorers in the league at the moment. Take their goals away and we are likely to be 10 points worse off.

I don’t think they are the problem at the moment unless you are expecting them to score a goal a game, which would beg the question of whether that is realistic.

The problem we have is that outside of those two, our goalscoring threat is very minimal in other areas. Washington won’t get the game time. Ward, Barkhuizen, Sibley, Wilson and Mendez Laing are not going to score on the kind of regular basis we need. Hourihane chips in with goals but hinders the side in other ways.

Realistically the best time for us to improve our attack is when we can go out and spend reasonably high fees, so not imminently.

[Jimbo Ram]

30 minutes ago, Dava75 said:

I go whether the football is good or bad - but I go primarily because I want my team to win - and secondary to that is the desire to watch good football.

First you suggest a manager be judged on results but then you said “more importantly” was the football. So I was just checking which it was. If its results as you now state then I guess you’re “happy” that we’re unbeaten in 6? 🤷🏼‍♂️😉 🐏

 

Stop being pedantic, I have made it clear that in terms of whether a Manager keeps his job, it’s down to results. Are you still with me? As a fan, going to watch games and be entertained, it’s not just about the result but also the style of football, does it look like the aim is to go and score more goals than the opposition and play attacking football like under Cox, BE, George Burley and Steve Mac. For me that is currently lacking; Is that clear enough or are you still confused 🤔

[sage]

34 minutes ago, Dava75 said:

I go whether the football is good or bad - but I go primarily because I want my team to win - and secondary to that is the desire to watch good football.

First you suggest a manager be judged on results but then you said “more importantly” was the football. So I was just checking which it was. If its results as you now state then I guess you’re “happy” that we’re unbeaten in 6? 🤷🏼‍♂️😉 🐏

 

I'd suggest 95% of manager sackings fall into 2 categories.

Poor results 

Attendances dropping

 

The latter is certainly linked to style of play.

 

 

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

Forwards are expensive to acquire. Who could we have signed realistically that would have come here and we could have afforded given our financial limitations?

Nombe cost £800k - £1 million, for instance. How much would other high performing forwards at this level like Devante Cole or Colby Bishop have cost? Probably similar or more.

We have Waghorn and Collins in the top 10 of scorers in the league at the moment. Take their goals away and we are likely to be 10 points worse off.

I don’t think they are the problem at the moment unless you are expecting them to score a goal a game, which would beg the question of whether that is realistic.

The problem we have is that outside of those two, our goalscoring threat is very minimal in other areas. Washington won’t get the game time. Ward, Barkhuizen, Sibley, Wilson and Mendez Laing are not going to score on the kind of regular basis we need. Hourihane chips in with goals but hinders the side in other ways.

Realistically the best time for us to improve our attack is when we can go out and spend reasonably high fees, so not imminently.

The key is to find these forwards before they become £1m players. It’s not easy obviously but that is what people are paid good money to do. I don’t think the question is how much would Colby Bishop, Devante Cole or Dion Charles cost now, but rather how much did Bishop and Charles cost Accrington, and Cole cost Barnsley.

It’s not an exact science, I’m sure Accrington have had some duds alongside those two but if they can find these hidden gems, so can we. Incidentally Bishop was at Derby til he was 15 and released. Probably the best all round 9 at this level now. 

If the manager or recruitment team are simply looking at last seasons top scorer list to inform their targets then we will never ever get good value for money again. We have to be smarter.