Fleetwood Home Sat 18th March 3.00pm

[angieram]

3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think Sibley is better at left back. He's an adequate defender, but offers a lot to the attack. I also think that McGoldrick and Knight are better 10s than Sibley. 

Roberts is a better defender than Sibley, but more static. That invites pressure down that side and makes us disjointed. I think the defence as a whole is better with Sibley,  although he will get 'done' on occasions where Roberts wouldn't, but it's the whole 'attack is the best form of defence ' thing.

Fair point. I like them both, but I like Sibley further forward more. 

Knight isn't available,  push McGoldrick up a bit and Sibley playing just behind him. Don't need a target man who can't get anywhere near crosses. 

[May Contain Nuts]

Perhaps it's nothing but a coincidence, but it strikes me that Wildsmith's form has noticeable deteriorated since we brought in that bloke from FGR to challenge him.

Wildsmith is a player who has previously struggled to asset himself as as the number one, but his confidence seemed to noticeable grow when it was clear here that he would be first choice, a position he'd never found himself in before.

It's not always the case that players perform better when their place is being challenged, and I think there's an argument to be had that signing McGee (who surely won't have come here to sit on the bench when he could have stayed and played at FGR) has slightly unsettled him.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[sage]

6 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think Sibley is better at left back. He's an adequate defender, but offers a lot to the attack. I also think that McGoldrick and Knight are better 10s than Sibley. 

Roberts is a better defender than Sibley, but more static. That invites pressure down that side and makes us disjointed. I think the defence as a whole is better with Sibley,  although he will get 'done' on occasions where Roberts wouldn't, but it's the whole 'attack is the best form of defence ' thing.

Roberts has massively improved in terms of getting forward and gets as many crosses in as Sibley. In games where we have been struggling, he is the one that has driven us forwards. The only player to come out of the last game with any credit.   

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, nottingram said:

Think he is different to what I and probably many expected but I think it’s a big call to say someone with 16 goals / assists doesn’t warrant a starting position. Highest contributing central midfielder in the league, with Adam Phillips and Barry Bannan next with 13. He would basically have to be a complete and utter liability defensively to not justify a starting spot, which he isn’t. 

Goals and assists not everything I know but the other of our more advanced regular starting central midfielders has 5 which is one behind one of Burton Albion’s centre backs. I like Knight a lot but you leave a lot of productivity behind if you start thinking about taking out Hourihane.

I should watch the second goal from Saturday back. Forsyth made up about 30 yards on Hourihane through pure desire to stop their player.

Warne could have taken Hourihane off at that point for me.

Fair play on the goal contributions stat though, was not aware of that.

Edited March 20, 2023 by G STAR RAM

[DRBee]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Hourihane is one of our best players on paper, unfortunately football isn't played on paper. Been a huge disappointment and doesn't warrant a starting position in my opinion.

Why do you think Warne has started him in so many games..... sorry you won't get it cos you don't see it  ?

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I should watch the second goal from Saturday back. Forsyth made up about 30 yards on Hourihane through pure desire to stop their player.

Warne could have taken Hourihane off at that point for me.

Fair play on the goal contributions stat though, was not aware of that.

A very limited interpretation ... look back it's not that Hourihane gives up , rather he hesitates as to which of two Fleetwood players to challenge and then goes after the player going down the outside. Forsyth just runs back as quick as he can paying no attention to where their players are at all , and his challenge on the scorer was completely ineffective. It was actually Forsyth who gave the ball away in the first place with a completely p poor pass/cross on the edge of their are , when we had so many players forward. No wonder he was running back so fast.

[angieram]

Nailed it on Radio Derby tonight @Curtains. ? 

[Rich3478]

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Fair point. I like them both, but I like Sibley further forward more. 

Knight isn't available,  push McGoldrick up a bit and Sibley playing just behind him. Don't need a target man who can't get anywhere near crosses. 

I don’t think have seen sibley play behind mcgoldrick. Sounds really good on paper as well. Saturday seems the ideal time to try it.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

Why do you think Warne has started him in so many games..... sorry you won't get it cos you don't see it  ?

If I was going to hazard a guess, Id say because we have a threadbare squad with virtually no competition for the midfield spots?

Not sure what I've not seen? Held my hands up and said I wasn't aware of his goal contribution stats.

Know what I have seen though and thats some bang average performances from a player who I believed would take this division by storm.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, DRBee said:

A very limited interpretation ... look back it's not that Hourihane gives up , rather he hesitates as to which of two Fleetwood players to challenge and then goes after the player going down the outside. Forsyth just runs back as quick as he can paying no attention to where their players are at all , and his challenge on the scorer was completely ineffective. It was actually Forsyth who gave the ball away in the first place with a completely p poor pass/cross on the edge of their are , when we had so many players forward. No wonder he was running back so fast.

Very detailed interpretation...but still garbage.

You think a player only needs to run back fast if it was them that gave the ball away? ?

Forsyth giving the ball away in the opposition final third was a contributory factor to the goal, along with poor goalkeeping from Wildsmith and a lack of desire from Hourihane...you won't see it though ?

[RoyMac5]

43 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Very detailed interpretation...but still garbage.

You think a player only needs to run back fast if it was them that gave the ball away? ?

Forsyth giving the ball away in the opposition final third was a contributory factor to the goal, along with poor goalkeeping from Wildsmith and a lack of desire from Hourihane...you won't see it though ?

You think all players can run at the same speed?

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You think all players can run at the same speed?

Nope, where did I say that?

[Ghost of Clough]

Knight was an unused sub last night vs Latvia. Got France next Monday

[kevinhectoring]

On 20/03/2023 at 17:56, DRBee said:

A very limited interpretation ... look back it's not that Hourihane gives up

He gives up. Same lack of intensity that led him to take evasive action in that wall a few games ago.  He’s actually shown more intensity second half of the season - perhaps Warne read the riot act. But his mind is on his next job (management) and his intensity is inconsistent. The issue for me is not that he’s cost us a handful of goals. It’s that we have a manager whose main ploy is to get players to run faster and further. That effort is undermined massively if there are passengers, however silky their left feet might be. We are constantly underweight in midfield - partly because of the formation he plays but also because we lack energy there. 
Why does Warne stick with him? Perhaps he’s bewitched by his CV and celebrated footie provenance.  If you listen to Hourihane talking about Warne it’s clear they are very close. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by kevinhectoring

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

He gives up. Same lack of intensity that led him to take evasive action in that wall a few games ago.  He’s actually shown more intensity second half of the season - perhaps Warne read the riot act. But his mind is on his next job (management) and his intensity is inconsistent. The issue for me is not that he’s cost us a handful of goals. It’s that we have a manager whose main ploy is to get players to run faster and further. That effort is undermined massively if there are passengers, however silky their left feet might be. We are constantly underweight in midfield - partly because of the formation he plays but also because we lack energy there. 
Why does Warne stick with him? Perhaps he’s bewitched by his CV and celebrated footie provenance.  If you listen to Hourihane talking about Warne it’s clear they are very close. 

That is a long stretch based on your minds inner machinations!

He's a different player to the next player - are all players the same, able to play the same, react the same, offer the same? 

[Raich Carter]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

He gives up. 

Yep, that's exactly how I saw it. He could, and should, have done more. Knight would have definitely done more to have stopped that goal from Hourihane's position by sheer determination. 

I'm really not a fan of Hourihane. Not that he's dreadful but I don't see how he cut it at a higher level. He does have a goal in him for sure but he should be head and shoulders above the others at this level but he really isn't. 

However, I do trust PW so...

Edited March 24, 2023 by Raich Carter

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

He gives up. Same lack of intensity that led him to take evasive action in that wall a few games ago.  He’s actually shown more intensity second half of the season - perhaps Warne read the riot act. But his mind is on his next job (management) and his intensity is inconsistent. The issue for me is not that he’s cost us a handful of goals. It’s that we have a manager whose main ploy is to get players to run faster and further. That effort is undermined massively if there are passengers, however silky their left feet might be. We are constantly underweight in midfield - partly because of the formation he plays but also because we lack energy there. 
Why does Warne stick with him? Perhaps he’s bewitched by his CV and celebrated footie provenance.  If you listen to Hourihane talking about Warne it’s clear they are very close. 

Why would he give up when he's literally 2 feet behind the player.  If he tackles it's from behind and it's a penalty.  He passed him onto two defenders .  One directly in front of the player and one coming directly in from the side who got sidestepped like the goal scorer was the invisible man.  

[kevinhectoring]

4 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Why would he give up when he's literally 2 feet behind the player.  If he tackles it's from behind and it's a penalty.  He passed him onto two defenders .  One directly in front of the player and one coming directly in from the side who got sidestepped like the goal scorer was the invisible man.  

 Nope. He’s right there in the thick of it.  He doesn’t know where Gomes goes next. He needs to put his body in the mix. The more there are in there, the more difficult it is for the attacker. He gave up 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

34 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

 Nope. He’s right there in the thick of it.  He doesn’t know where Gomes goes next. He needs to put his body in the mix. The more there are in there, the more difficult it is for the attacker. He gave up 

If he goes in it's a penalty.     He can' t get in front with two centre halves and a goalie.  Nothing he can do there but pass on to the defenders who certainly didn't do their job to my eyes. 

[Anag Ram]

Tomorrow is the day our season turns around.

We will restart a winning run which culminates in Wembley success 🐏🥂🏆