Barnsley (A), Saturday 25th February 3pm.

[VulcanRam]

1 hour ago, The Last Post said:

One reason is Refs aren't coming through the ranks, 1000s are leaving in their droves through abuse, Intimidation, Violent assaults and threats of violence, The ones we see are being fast tracked into the EFL, EPL refs(professional)are being cherry picked from the EFL, That's not a mark of a good ref, Just a mark that someone somewhere marked you as good...the ass...essor

I'm no fan of todays officials, They don't use common sense only hard and fast rules, One reason...the assessor in the stand, They mark you on performance, Perform well and maybe a promotion to the EPL and a fat contract, TV/VAR has shown why the standard of refs are at an all time low, Think of this, 1 poor decision and we've had more than our fare share(as no doubt so have others)can scupper all the hard work in a season by the blow of a whistle.   

Indeed. You only need to read some of the stupidity on message boards, Twitter etc etc, the scrutiny in the media and every supporter thinking they know better (when they don't, most of them don't even know the law of the game) to know why referees are leaving the game. People who do nothing but slag off referees left, right and centre - even when they've had a perfectly reasonable game - should take a look at themselves and the part they play in it all. 

[VulcanRam]

Just now, DavesaRam said:

Sorry, no conspiracy intended! It is sheer incompetence to indicate 3 different decisions for one event. But on the other hand, how many times have there been contentious decisions where Derby have actually benefitted, rightly or wrongly? It won't be many!

I agree Dave (and forgive my tongue in cheek) that what happened afterwards was farcical and I'd like to know what was said and why. But the original decision was goal, the outcome was goal, so nothing changes. In the end the officials stuck to their initial decision, that was the point I was making! 

[ilkleyram]

54 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

One reason is Refs aren't coming through the ranks, 1000s are leaving in their droves through abuse, Intimidation, Violent assaults and threats of violence, The ones we see are being fast tracked into the EFL, EPL refs(professional)are being cherry picked from the EFL, That's not a mark of a good ref, Just a mark that someone somewhere marked you as good...the ass...essor

I'm no fan of todays officials, They don't use common sense only hard and fast rules, One reason...the assessor in the stand, They mark you on performance, Perform well and maybe a promotion to the EPL and a fat contract, TV/VAR has shown why the standard of refs are at an all time low, Think of this, 1 poor decision and we've had more than our fare share(as no doubt so have others)can scupper all the hard work in a season by the blow of a whistle.   

At the elite level it's another reason why the premier league is slowly but surely ruining football, aided and abetted by FIFA and the other authorities.  How many qualified referees are taken up every week by the 4th official - who really don't do that much (they cause more arguments on the touchline than they stop, just by being there) - and VAR?  I would hazard a guess that you could probably provide enough officials for a whole EFL division every weekend if you removed all the VAR and 4th officials.

VAR and TV make it worse in my opinion.  Jimmy Hill (who was a qualified referee) has a lot to answer for by what he started - the TV analysis of matches and by extension match officials.  Both TV and VAR show referees and linos making mistake after mistake after mistake, as well as those times when they get things right.  VAR has made it even worse for referees by influencing rule making so that nowadays no one is certain any more what the offside rule is or what is handball or not - two areas of the game which should be pretty obvious in theory.  

At the other end of the scale I agree.  Young Ilkley played Sunday football from age 6 to about 28.  I watched most of his matches and the behaviour of a couple of our team's parents towards referees (no linos) was awful, never mind those from the opposition.  I can easily see why youngsters would give up and why it's a problem.  I hope (even though I hate security cameras on principle) that the latest initiative works but you need to stop it from happening at all rather than just having a record.  

After some we've seen this season, including yesterday's numpty, I find it hard to have sympathy for some of them but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to be one.

[Ram-Alf]

57 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I agree Dave (and forgive my tongue in cheek) that what happened afterwards was farcical and I'd like to know what was said and why. But the original decision was goal, the outcome was goal, so nothing changes. In the end the officials stuck to their initial decision, that was the point I was making! 

Not seen the incident only what I've read on here...But!

Watching France Vs Scotland in the 6 nations today there was an incident where a Frenchman went into a tackle and smashed his head into a Scotsman's head, After the initial video replay the Referee(Georgian)said unintentional clash he then asks other officials what their thoughts were, Linesman clearly knew the rules...dangerous play and a Red card, You could see the ref thinking, His mind was going to the law of "dangerous" he then goes with the on field/TV judge to give a Red card...all seen and heard by those watching on the TV. 

International Rugby Union has got this right, All officials were in talks, Replay after replay, Time was stopped, The EPL have something to learn...but they say that the supporter will get fed up with the stop starting and the added time...already there tho..., I believe with amount of money in Football...Football will have to adopt the Rugby Union ethic...but it'll take time.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, The Last Post said:

International Rugby Union has got this right, All officials were in talks, Replay after replay, Time was stopped, The EPL have something to learn...but they say that the supporter will get fed up with the stop starting and the added time...already there tho..., I believe with amount of money in Football...Football will have to adopt the Rugby Union ethic...but it'll take time.

Different games and styles of play. Rugby and cricket are similar, football not.

VAR has solved nothing just added another layer of interpretation. Plus slowing down the game and taking away the spontaneous joy.

[SKHunter]

Rugby and cricket similar? How? 

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

Sorry, no conspiracy intended! It is sheer incompetence to indicate 3 different decisions for one event. But on the other hand, how many times have there been contentious decisions where Derby have actually benefitted, rightly or wrongly? It won't be many!

I was a few yards away when the first goal went in. It looked to me that Sibley made the connection that was sending the ball goalwards. The lad tapped it in on the line and saved Sibley the embarrassment. The discussion between the officials would have been over who sent it goalwards. The goal was caused by Fozzie taking an eternity to clear up field . The back 5 had a bad day at the office.

[Ram-Alf]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Different games and styles of play. Rugby, football not.

VAR has solved nothing just added another layer of interpretation. Plus slowing down the game and taking away the spontaneous joy.

I never mentioned Cricket Roy

Rugby...try scored, Was it legal, TV judge looks and says TRY.

Football...goal scored, Was it legal, VAR looks and says GOAL.

The same above to not give the score, Something illegal in the build up.

Fouls you'll get a more positive answer with Rugby as it's far more physical, But the outcome is the same, Was there a foul in football that led up to the goal, Was there an illegal tackle that led to the try.

The balls maybe a different shape(puns incoming)but FIFA have to adapt or die...ish.

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

I never mentioned Cricket Roy

Rugby...try scored, Was it legal, TV judge looks and says TRY.

Football...goal scored, Was it legal, VAR looks and says GOAL.

The same above to not give the score, Something illegal in the build up.

Fouls you'll get a more positive answer with Rugby as it's far more physical, But the outcome is the same, Was there a foul in football that led up to the goal, Was there an illegal tackle that led to the try.

The balls maybe a different shape(puns incoming)but FIFA have to adapt or die...ish.

It's the time it takes. Both rugby and cricket are more amenable to breaks in play. Football only really stops for injuries, anything else is seen as timewasting.

We could adapt by admitting VAR doesn't add enough to be worth the hassle and the negative influence on the game, but they won't.

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's the time it takes. Both rugby and cricket are more amenable to breaks in play. Football only really stops for injuries, anything else is seen as timewasting.

We could adapt by admitting VAR doesn't add enough to be worth the hassle and the negative influence on the game, but they won't.

Rugby got used to the breaks in play...Cricket is a different gravy.

Ever seen a live Premier game Roy, Have you ever seen MOTD Roy?, Time and time again VAR has taken 5+mins to come to the wrong/right conclusion, Lee Mason didn't know how VAR worked as he got his lines crossed ?

Referees are the official arbiters in football for time, Where in RU there's a time clock, How many times have we seen at PP where 3mins have gone up(EPL too)even when there were 6+ subs(30seconds each)then timewasting and injuries, All guesswork from the official even tho he/she has 2 watches and they stop one of them.

 

[Brammie Steve]

Big deal!

So we might have lost 3-1 instead!

Anyone fancy a replay?

We may get one or two at season's end!

Summat to look forward to!

[ossieram]

I've found out this afternoon that my cousins son and her husband were attacked by fellow Derby fans at HT yesterday and had to witness her son walking through the concourse with his face covered in blood. 

Most on here would have seen pictures of her son before,  he's the lad with the Yardie Rams flag who goes to most away games with his step dad.

Neither of these are violent people, so it would be nice to find out who did this and why?

[sage]

Just now, ossieram said:

I've found out this afternoon that my cousins son and her husband were attacked by fellow Derby fans at HT yesterday and had to witness her son walking through the concourse with his face covered in blood. 

Most on here would have seen pictures of her son before,  he's the lad with the Yardie Rams flag who goes to most away games with his step dad.

Neither of these are violent people, so it would be nice to find out who did this and why?

I saw him at HT with blood on his face and two skinny teenagers looked to be apologising to him(maybe on behalf of someone else) 

I did hear about a fight/assault in the toilets. The chap sat behind me said someone was surrounded and punched. 

I didn't see the incident but just hearing about it sickened me. I was also dismayed by many of the comments during and after the game. 

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, SKHunter said:

Rugby and cricket similar? How? 

Balls 

[Crewton]

11 minutes ago, ossieram said:

I've found out this afternoon that my cousins son and her husband were attacked by fellow Derby fans at HT yesterday and had to witness her son walking through the concourse with his face covered in blood. 

Most on here would have seen pictures of her son before,  he's the lad with the Yardie Rams flag who goes to most away games with his step dad.

Neither of these are violent people, so it would be nice to find out who did this and why?

Hope they find out the culprits. I stood near him at Port Vale and he seemed like a proper fan. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, SKHunter said:

Rugby and cricket similar? How? 

Both boring 

[rammieib]

12 hours ago, angieram said:

Yep, that's where the players and referee come in and out. It's to make them feel safer.

Strange, the referee wasn't intimidated at all - seemed to be loving the attention. See photo above! 

Our players, on the other hand, looked terrified.

I watched the referee as he walked off at half time - obviously I condone the abuse but the way he arrogantly smiled back at the Derby fans I thought was very unprofessional. Still I expect nothing less from Maddeley sadly.

[Ram-Alf]

52 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I watched the referee as he walked off at half time - obviously I condone the abuse but the way he arrogantly smiled back at the Derby fans I thought was very unprofessional. Still I expect nothing less from Maddeley sadly.

Madden...Bobby Madden...not Bobby Maddeley 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/watch-bobby-maddens-efl-debut-27618207

Edited February 26, 2023 by The Last Post

[sage]

On the referee front, they got the first goal correct...eventually. Cole was in an offside position but it was Sibley who knocked it back to him, he merely saved it being an own goal.

[barnsley]

I don't think anything will come of it, but, we'll see. I just filled in British Transport Police's online complaint form:

I went to catch the train from Barnsley Interchange, following the Barnsley-Derby County football match, intending to travel back to Sheffield.

I wasn't allowed through the doors of the station, for a while, in the first instance. I posed the question: what? You won't permit me onto the platform, even though I've got a valid travel document? The answer was no - you're going to have to wait. Eventually, I was allowed onto the platform, just as the train was coming in.

As I expected, I was squashed up against the train door. I ended up standing next to two Derby fans, a husband and wife, with some other Derby fans in front of me, and then two members of the British Transport Police against the other set of train doors.

The British Transport Police officers let a few more fans on, and, at that point, it was hardly possible to move. Still, they continued to admit passengers, to the point where the volume of people meant that I ended up being pushed into the lady Derby supporter. I think this was preceded by one of the British Transport Police officers pushing someone, because they wouldn't (or could not, due to the lack of space), move down the train.

Understandably, her husband complained loudly, about the fact that his wife had almost been pushed over. Fortunately, she was unhurt.

My concerns arise from the way that the British Transport Police officers dealt with her husband. To contextualise - I am a Barnsley fan, and I was surrounded by supporters of the other club. The Derby supporters were loud, singing their songs, and many of them had alcohol. Their team had just lost, too. In my experience, a combination of those last two things can be a recipe for threats, aggression, and general unpleasantness. At no point, though, did I feel intimidated by any Derby fans - I was happily talking to a couple of them. For a busy train, after a football match, it was as peaceable as it gets. 

The fan whose wife had been pushed over was addressing, from memory, British Transport Police officer Smith, who normally works out of Leeds, and has been with the police, since 1981. If that doesn't identify him, I took some surreptitious video footage with my smartphone, which you can have, if you like.

It isn't verbatim, but parts of the conversation went like this, with 'F', being the fan whose wife had been pushed over, and 'O', being officer Smith.

F - why did you push my wife over?

O - I can push whoever I want. They (I think 'they', meant the yellow-jacketed stewards, who had been outside the train station) cannot, but we can, and we will, if we have to.

F - what? You're not even going to apologise?

O - carry on with your mouth, and I'll arrest you, when we pull into Sheffield.

I also had a conversation with officer Smith, just as we were arriving into Sheffield. He said he would have had no problem 'pulling me by [my] scarf', through the solid mass of humanity in front of me, and into the passageway which connects the carriages, if he had been required to do so. When I asked what the consequences for my health would have been from such a decision, he was unconcerned. There was not much in the way of a response to my comment that, if you treat people like animals, you shouldn't be surprised if they behave liked animals.

Officer Smith, when prompted by a different Derby fan, also expounded upon the subject of police intelligence, and how the police decide whether someone 'can be a risk.' Essentially, this came down to attire. Two of the brands mentioned by officer Smith, were Stone Island, and CP. I wanted to ask officer Smith whether this was the same mentality which sees Black citizens targeted, as a consequence of police intelligence, but, as he had already told me 'not to get excited', I thought better of it. 

Officer Smith confirmed that he had been filming, so you may wish to view said footage.

My own comments are as follows: it was only this morning when I read that one per cent of police officers, are under investigation, for alleged criminal activity of their own. It isn't even two years since Sarah Everard was murdered by a serving police officer. In more recent times, there's been David Carrick, too. Now, obviously - obviously - I am not comparing a rude police officer, whose every action I disagreed with, with the murderer of Sarah Everard.

But, if public confidence in the police is as low as it's ever been because of the above events, my experience on the train is not going to restore that confidence. Nobody I saw deserved to be treated with the rudeness, and contempt, which officer Smith displayed. An apology, and an acceptance that he'd made the wrong decision, in letting more people onto the train, would have gone a long way to defusing the situation. I make mistakes in my job, and, when I do, I apologise. And, this man has been one of the public faces of your organisation, for more than four decades!

I'm appalled. I've never done a thing wrong in my life, and yet one of the upholders of the law, thinks there is nothing wrong with telling me he'd pull me around by my scarf, through a line of other human beings, on an already jampacked train. I've been all over the country with Barnsley, and only the police in South Yorkshire, behave in such a high-handed, intimidating way. 

Thanks for your attention.