Barnsley (A), Saturday 25th February 3pm.

[Crewton]

17 minutes ago, ROKERITE said:

Proper heroes actually to most of the country at the time. Brave men who refused to be bullied or intimidated into striking when there hadn't been an official national ballot. But as Steadybreeze wrote earlier this subject doesn't belong on a football forum. 

There's a thread in the Jim Smith forum on here somewhere, where you can debate all that. Don't bring your questionable claims onto the main DCFC discussion forum, though if you want to agree that Barnsley fans chanting "scabs" at Derby fans is ignorant and misguided, that's fine.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

Well they don’t have Bass or Pedigree in Barnsley lol. 

"Other pubs are available" ?

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Crewton said:

"Other pubs are available" ?

I’m quite happy with my choice lol

[ilkleyram]

8 hours ago, Rich84 said:

Not read everything in here but here's my take on today from the stands.

We were too predictable in possession,  looking for the ball down the channel or big diagonal pass, which clearly they were prepared for, the biggest problem was we had no midfield 1st half, so no other options out of defence,  missing Bird.

They were stronger, quicker, more energetic and looked the better team from the start, we were way too passive,  especially in the absent midfield,  hence the defence got overrun at times. The 3rd goal a perfect example, it started from our throw at the half way line, lost the ball too easily and barely an attempt at a challenge. 

As for the offside goal, my opinion which I said to those around me at the time, I thought he was in an offside position,  but the ball came to him from an attempt to clear which came back off a Derby player (Knight?) it was shambolic defending caused by their intensity, it was indecisiveness by the lino, presume he spoke to ref on the earpiece and that's why there was so much confusion and the ref correctly spoke to the lino and came to that conclusion that the ball got to Cole via a Derby touch, therefore not offside. 

All in all, I don't think we've played well, apart from after Morecombe gave up at 45 mins, for weeks, we look tired, bereft of ideas and lacking all over the pitch, which against 2 good teams away from home has been exposed.

But yesterday was a new level of poor, summarised by the 4th goal imo.

On to Tuesday and go again,  put this to bed and move on, we are lucky to be in this position after the last 18 months, still in the driving seat to reach the PO's. Then let's hope we have a plan to deal with the better teams and the small squad we have aren't too jaded. 

The ref was poor yesterday - join a very long queue - but there's a real problem with communication between referees and us the paying customer that football generally hasn't tackled.  VAR at least (now) allows communication on screens on the ground, but below the EPL we're treated as mushrooms.

Yesterday on the first goal, the ref originally gave the goal, then was persuaded to talk to the lino who hadn't signalled anything, nor moved back towards the half way line as you might expect if the goal was to stand. Whether the ref was persuaded by earpiece or the players complaining who knows? After some discussion (and surrounded by players from both sides no doubt all adding their views) the lino then clearly signalled offside.  Cheers from us.  Within 5 seconds the ref then points to the half way line - goal awarded.  Boos from us.

Two possibilities.  The lino gave a wrong signal by mistake.  More than likely given their general competence, but odd.  Or the ref/lino compilation were overruled via earpiece by the 4th official who had seen a replay on a monitor by the touchline. 

If the latter, why don't we fans (all fans from all teams) know this is a possibility/is happening? What are the rules around it - is it to be used in 'big' incidents only - goals/sendings off? How accurate is it - does it draw lines across the pitch, for example?  Does every club have the facility for the 4th official - Warne has referred to a monitor near their dugout? And why isn't there communication in the ground?Etc.

And, if there was no 4th official communication, why did the lino clearly signal offside?

The standard of referees in football is at an all time (certainly my 60 years) low, at a time when the standards of players are at an all time high in terms of fitness and speed.  The communication between the sport generally and the fan has never been particularly good in reality but in the use of technology it is little short of appalling - Cricket, Rugbies, tennis, as three examples, do that so, so much better.

 

[sage]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

Correct, proper scabs.

They would have voted to strike around 60/40 maybe 70/30, but Arthur Scargill hadn't held a national vote.

By the time they had a vote to strike they'd had 2 months of abuse and voted to work and voted around 65/35 to work.

Actual scabs were all Yorkshire miners, because they actually voted to strike but a small percentage went in.

 

[DavesaRam]

30 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

The ref was poor yesterday - join a very long queue - but there's a real problem with communication between referees and us the paying customer that football generally hasn't tackled.  VAR at least (now) allows communication on screens on the ground, but below the EPL we're treated as mushrooms.

Yesterday on the first goal, the ref originally gave the goal, then was persuaded to talk to the lino who hadn't signalled anything, nor moved back towards the half way line as you might expect if the goal was to stand. Whether the ref was persuaded by earpiece or the players complaining who knows? After some discussion (and surrounded by players from both sides no doubt all adding their views) the lino then clearly signalled offside.  Cheers from us.  Within 5 seconds the ref then points to the half way line - goal awarded.  Boos from us.

Two possibilities.  The lino gave a wrong signal by mistake.  More than likely given their general competence, but odd.  Or the ref/lino compilation were overruled via earpiece by the 4th official who had seen a replay on a monitor by the touchline. 

If the latter, why don't we fans (all fans from all teams) know this is a possibility/is happening? What are the rules around it - is it to be used in 'big' incidents only - goals/sendings off? How accurate is it - does it draw lines across the pitch, for example?  Does every club have the facility for the 4th official - Warne has referred to a monitor near their dugout? And why isn't there communication in the ground?Etc.

And, if there was no 4th official communication, why did the lino clearly signal offside?

The standard of referees in football is at an all time (certainly my 60 years) low, at a time when the standards of players are at an all time high in terms of fitness and speed.  The communication between the sport generally and the fan has never been particularly good in reality but in the use of technology it is little short of appalling - Cricket, Rugbies, tennis, as three examples, do that so, so much better.

 

Well either we have VAR in League or we don’t. Actually we don’t, so the 4th official watching a separate monitor should not be getting involved. So no goal, Derby’s heads don’t go down and so maybe we handle the GBH football better.

Feasible?

[ilkleyram]

6 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Well either we have VAR in League or we don’t. Actually we don’t, so the 4th official watching a separate monitor should not be getting involved. So no goal, Derby’s heads don’t go down and so maybe we handle the GBH football better.

Feasible?

I agree.  But we do have examples over at least the last 2/3 seasons of the 4th official apparently affecting and changing referees' decisions. Perhaps there have been many occasions when that has happened without our knowledge. Sometimes that's worked to our advantage, sometimes not as per refereeing decisions generally over the course of a season.

What, as paying customers, we don't know is what the rules of engagement are, unlike with VAR.  Nor do we know when the 4th official chooses to get involved or how - do they rely on their eyesight from across a crowded pitch for example, or do they have access to a monitor?  Can they demand (of RamsTV) that they show a replay of an incident, or do they wait until one is shown? Do they have more than one angle/slow motion? Are they not allowed to get involved at all?  The possibility is clearly there for RamsTV (and all other clubTV channels) to influence a game in such circumstances - only show replays of incidents involving the other side/to DCFC's advantage etc.   Perhaps @Owen87ITK will know. 

My own view is that there should be no 4th official at any match.  If you want a substitution board operator and boot checker then train a 6 year old but don't waste a 'qualified' referee that might be better used elsewhere.  If an official gets injured then make a tannoy announcement as in days gone by.  But then I hate VAR too.

Equally, if 4th officials are being used to provide views by earpiece to referees on the pitch as to the decisions they should be making outside of VARland, then we fans should know about it and should be aware when it has been/is being used

[Tamworthram]

The one crumb of comfort from yesterday (yes I know I'm clutching at straws) is that whilst Barnsley were worthy of their win and we can have any complaints, despite the score line I don't think Barnsley were a great deal better than us. We did create some decent chances and we effectively gifted them two of the goals.

It was a bad day at the office, especially defensively, that hopefully won't happen again. 

[Premier ram]

6 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

The one crumb of comfort from yesterday (yes I know I'm clutching at straws) is that whilst Barnsley were worthy of their win and we can have any complaints, despite the score line I don't think Barnsley were a great deal better than us. We did create some decent chances and we effectively gifted them two of the goals.

It was a bad day at the office, especially defensively, that hopefully won't happen again. 

i was there yesterday mate , totally agree with you , we created quite a few chances , sadly they didnt go in , Barnsleys did , otherwise there was nothing between the two teams

[Jourdan]

Yesterday was a desperately poor result but the way I see it is that we’d rather be seeing those results now than in May. It’s something we can recover from.

We haven’t lost ground on Plymouth and Wycombe haven’t gained ground on us. We are very much where we deserve to be and likely to end up being - in the playoffs. Whether we finish 3rd or 6th is immaterial.

All teams have games where every slip, trip, bobble, wobble, bounce and deflection goes in the opposition’s favour and every mistake gets punished. It was just one particularly bad day at the office. We have had four of those in 23 league games under Warne, so there’s no need to panic.

It’s all very well saying Warne needs to correct things or learn from defeats, but what more can he really do?

We have to remember that Warne is working with what he’s got - a very small squad with good quality but one that is having to rely on players playing out of position and young players to fill gaps to function even slightly.

There is no use in getting worked up and there is no use coming down like a hammer on Warne and the team.

I am sure Warne would love a colossus in midfield and I am sure Warne would love to rest 5-6 players but he doesn’t have that luxury. He is doing his best to troubleshoot from within.

We have 14 games to go and 9-10 of them look very winnable. The scaremongering after two rare defeats seems extreme.

Six points at PP this week and we can quickly move on from this.

[SKRam]

Barnsley V Derby County, see all above comments ⬆️
My second away of the season after Bolton. My third after Middlesbro last season (I know, I’ll not bother for a while I promise) 

From my perspective, and I hope a little balance….. My mates headed for a pint rather than wait at station, probably the wiser decision.  I decided to wait as I live in Marple near Stockport and wanted to get home to get out for a few local ales. (Definitely NOT John Smiths ?) So I stood towards the rear of the crowd, I witnessed four cans launched over the police at the passing Barnsley fans. Not good.

As an employee of Northern I’m well aware of how poor some of the train planning can be so two car trains were always going to struggle. A four car relief service was in place I believe.  The police managed it extremely well and there was friendly banter with the mounted police and some of the barrier cops. As I passed to the platform I was wished a safe journey home by one of the senior officers.  Thumbs up from me all round for the police. Very competent. Very well managed. I have issues with other forces around the country for other reasons so this isn’t a police ‘love in’ post. My view only but after reading through the thread thought I should add it. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by SKRam
John smiths comment added

[HorsforthRam]

As others have stated, as daft as it seems after a heavy defeat, I expected Barnsley to be better. I thought we’d be under more consistent pressure but it never felt like it. I was expecting a Bolton away type of game where we just stayed solid. Alas….

The midfield just isn’t suited to head tennis. We lost at it most of the time and they mopped up the loose/second balls. Hence the defence looking shaky

[SKRam]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Yesterday was a desperately poor result but the way I see it is that we’d rather be seeing those results now than in May. It’s something we can recover from.

We haven’t lost ground on Plymouth and Wycombe haven’t gained ground on us. We are very much where we deserve to be and likely to end up being - in the playoffs. Whether we finish 3rd or 6th is immaterial.

All teams have games where every slip, trip, bobble, wobble, bounce and deflection goes in the opposition’s favour and every mistake gets punished. It was just one particularly bad day at the office. We have had four of those in 23 league games under Warne, so there’s no need to panic.

It’s all very well saying Warne needs to correct things or learn from defeats, but what more can he really do?

We have to remember that Warne is working with what he’s got - a very small squad with good quality but one that is having to rely on players playing out of position and young players to fill gaps to function even slightly.

There is no use in getting worked up and there is no use coming down like a hammer on Warne and the team.

I am sure Warne would love a colossus in midfield and I am sure Warne would love to rest 5-6 players but he doesn’t have that luxury. He is doing his best to troubleshoot from within.

We have 14 games to go and 9-10 of them look very winnable. The scaremongering after two rare defeats seems extreme.

Six points at PP this week and we can quickly move on from this.

Without searching @Jourdan I’m sure some of your posts from a few years ago, I didn’t agree, but I must say last few months I think you’ve been right on it. Great post again ⬆️

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

 

The standard of referees in football is at an all time (certainly my 60 years) low, at a time when the standards of players are at an all time high in terms of fitness and speed.  The communication between the sport generally and the fan has never been particularly good in reality but in the use of technology it is little short of appalling - Cricket, Rugbies, tennis, as three examples, do that so, so much better.

 

One reason is Refs aren't coming through the ranks, 1000s are leaving in their droves through abuse, Intimidation, Violent assaults and threats of violence, The ones we see are being fast tracked into the EFL, EPL refs(professional)are being cherry picked from the EFL, That's not a mark of a good ref, Just a mark that someone somewhere marked you as good...the ass...essor

I'm no fan of todays officials, They don't use common sense only hard and fast rules, One reason...the assessor in the stand, They mark you on performance, Perform well and maybe a promotion to the EPL and a fat contract, TV/VAR has shown why the standard of refs are at an all time low, Think of this, 1 poor decision and we've had more than our fare share(as no doubt so have others)can scupper all the hard work in a season by the blow of a whistle.   

[Tamworthram]

21 minutes ago, Premier ram said:

i was there yesterday mate , totally agree with you , we created quite a few chances , sadly they didnt go in , Barnsleys did , otherwise there was nothing between the two teams

I was there as well. On another day, it might have been a different story but it wasn't. IF, we reach the play offs and happen to meet Barnsley in the semi finals, I don't think we should view this result as quite as confidence damaging as the score line might suggest.

[Foreveram]

6 hours ago, angieram said:

Yes, I saw those yesterday when I went to that end of the stand in my desperate search for a cup of tea without a massive queue. Never been down that end before.

How do you get to them? Is there an external walk around?

Sorry men only,?

[Crewton]

18 minutes ago, SKRam said:

Barnsley V Derby County, see all above comments ⬆️
My second away of the season after Bolton. My third after Middlesbro last season (I know, I’ll not bother for a while I promise) 

From my perspective, and I hope a little balance….. My mates headed for a pint rather than wait at station, probably the wiser decision.  I decided to wait as I live in Marple near Stockport and wanted to get home to get out for a few local ales. (Definitely NOT John Smiths ?) So I stood towards the rear of the crowd, I witnessed four cans launched over the police at the passing Barnsley fans. Not good.

As an employee of Northern I’m well aware of how poor some of the train planning can be so two car trains were always going to struggle. A four car relief service was in place I believe.  The police managed it extremely well and there was friendly banter with the mounted police and some of the barrier cops. As I passed to the platform I was wished a safe journey home by one of the senior officers.  Thumbs up from me all round for the police. Very competent. Very well managed. I have issues with other forces around the country for other reasons so this isn’t a police ‘love in’ post. My view only but after reading through the thread thought I should add it. 

I didn't notice any problems with the police yesterday either (though with SYP I'm always watchful) or Barnsley fans, other than the usual ritual dancing either side of the police cordon at the station, though it probably helped that I was never in amongst a large group of our youngsters.

[SKRam]

22 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I didn't notice any problems with the police yesterday either (though with SYP I'm always watchful) or Barnsley fans, other than the usual ritual dancing either side of the police cordon at the station, though it probably helped that I was never in amongst a large group of our youngsters.

Another reason I was happy at the back of the crowd! 

[VulcanRam]

2 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

Well either we have VAR in League or we don’t. Actually we don’t, so the 4th official watching a separate monitor should not be getting involved. So no goal, Derby’s heads don’t go down and so maybe we handle the GBH football better.

Feasible?

No, not feasible because you seem to conveniently forget/ignore that the goal was originally given seeing as the lino didn't stick his flag up initially, so he obviously didn't think it was offside to start with. If he thought it was offside he would have put his flag up straight away, before the ball even hits the back of the net. And then the goal doesn't stand.

I know you like your conspiracy theories, but this is stretching it to the limit. 

[DavesaRam]

2 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

No, not feasible because you seem to conveniently forget/ignore that the goal was originally given seeing as the lino didn't stick his flag up initially, so he obviously didn't think it was offside to start with. If he thought it was offside he would have put his flag up straight away, before the ball even hits the back of the net. And then the goal doesn't stand.

I know you like your conspiracy theories, but this is stretching it to the limit. 

Sorry, no conspiracy intended! It is sheer incompetence to indicate 3 different decisions for one event. But on the other hand, how many times have there been contentious decisions where Derby have actually benefitted, rightly or wrongly? It won't be many!