Matchday Thread - Fleetwood Town v Derby County (20/08 15:00)

[Boycie]

Win at home draw away is top six isn’t it?

[EraniosSocks]

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Not to score in 1 away game you’ve dominated is unlucky. Not to score in 2 away games you’ve dominated is even more unlucky. Not to score in 3 away games you’ve dominated defies statistical probability & suggests there is a significant factor at play. 

Sheffield Wednesday had a very poor start in the first dozen or so games last season but after they'd adjusted to this division they shot up the table to claim a play-off spot. They will compete for a top two spot this season with Derby, Ipswich and Peterborough in my opinion.

Way back in 1968-69, there were some supporters preaching the same doom and gloom as you do now when we sat in the relegation zone, winless with three points from the first five games. Then in came Willie Carlin. We lost just three games in the remainder of the season, romping the League by seven points - that's 10 in today's parlance and there were many press pundits saying it was the best Second Division team ever. The same team the next season, with just the addition of Terry Hennessey for the last 10 games, finished fourth behind Everton, Leeds and Chelsea in the top tier. 

The current team, with eight points from the first five games will get better when they become more familiar with each other I'm sure and so will the results. The recruitment has been good and it seems it is not yet over. This team will not concede many goals in this Division. I'd be worried if we weren't creating chances but we are. We've not had the rub of the green at all so far, but when that changes watch us go.They might even manage to put a smile on your face. I've every confidence that by the end of the year, they'll be competing for a top two spot.

COYR

[GenBr]

4 hours ago, cosmic said:

More concerned with the inevitable over reaction that’s coming from the fan base. We did everything right today, just zero luck. Another day we’d have bagged a handful. 

I agree that people are over reacting, but us not scoring doesnt have anything to do with luck. Our finishing isn't good enough and thats it.

[BramcoteRam84]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Probably the most infuriating few pages of this forum I've read in a while.

Despite what some of the 'just saying it how it is' Talksport types on here think, no-one at all is saying a performance or tactics are beyond criticism. But at least have the decency to apply some context to criticism  i.e. a bunch of players slung together in no time at all, a rookie manager, a late pre-season & the fact we have dominated the 3 away games these same individuals are outraged we haven't won. Just hysterical, over-entitled garbage that I didnt miss at all last season

If we'd had social media back in the day, some on here would have happily got rid of Arthur Cox in 84/85 (we finished 7th in Division 3 with a bunch of expensive signings, imagine that) & wouldn't have given Clough another season after 67/68.

Just as well David Clowes seems a sensible, measured type & won't be doing kneejerk Mel Morris reactionary cack. He'll look at the table & notice we're just outside the playoff spots...perhaps the bedwetters might like to do the same.

Jim Smith would’ve been gone as well!! 

[Ellafella]

13 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Fitness (number of games played since vacation) , climate, time since last game,  number of games since last break, size of pitch, formation, opposition formation.... 

all factors with relatively small loadings on the outcome measure in my book…

[sage]

58 minutes ago, Miggins said:

I had to clean the urinals at the garden centre where I worked. I would have been very happy to find a quid in there, but I only found chewing gum. ☹️

What flavour?

[LeedsCityRam]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Read it again. I'm pointing out there are opposing fans calling us Derby fans arrogant - they should read your humble missive.

Apologies Roy, like I said wasn't sure it was irony ??

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

all factors with relatively small loadings on the outcome measure in my book…

Based on what? Heuristics is the answer. 

Ie your persona beliefs, based on some observations, but no empirical evidence and riddled with your personal biases. 

But crack on with your beliefs, they're yours to have. But not to impose. 

[Elwood P Dowd]

In the Shrewsbury match we had 13 shots with 3 on target, today we had 27 shots with 8 of them on target I consider that a step in the right direction. Was I disappointed with todays result, yes I was however, we did appear to set aside the "possession at all costs" ethos and the players took responsibility to have a go when the shooting\scoring opportunities presented themselves.

The next logical step in this road to improvement is, fingers crossed, in the next games some of those shots hit the back of the WBA or Peterborough net. 

[Tyler Durden]

29 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I’m hearing those who are critical complaining their opinions aren’t being valued and being chastised for being negative. Everyone has their opinion but be prepared to stand your ground and prepare to have your opinion attacked especially if you’re talking complete and utter b*******. 
 

The only reason to be negative today is the result, and results are not really important right now because we are in Game 5! There’s another 41 games to play and guess what we’re not far off where we want to be in the table which is also positive considering this is a team assembled 6 weeks ago and we’ve had at least a week less preseason than everyone else in what was already a short preseason. 
 

Remember one season under Clough (Nigel)  where we won 6 of the first 8 games against some decent opposition. But nearly all of those wins weren’t deserved, the opposition were better we rode our luck massively. The performance levels of the team weren’t good enough and as a result we followed this run with a long winless streak and went down well into the bottom half to recover and finish mid-table top half which was that teams maximum capability. That is why you cannot look purely at results and especially this early in the season. You have to look at performance.

The reason we’ve not scored goals in the past couple of years is because we’ve been too defensive in the set up (probably due to squad limitations) and we didn’t get enough players forward to support attacks, all our play was in front of teams and we barely created 1 good chance per game. Tuesday was reminiscent of last season and was not good enough, but Charlton and today we did everything but score, we dominated created lots of chances more importantly gave away very little chances, if we continue like that we will win games.
 

If we play another 10 games and we’re still not scoring and we’re dropping down the league that’s the time to be concerned. But I genuinely believe our level of performance will be sustained and when it matters we translated into results and we’ll be fighting at the sharp end of the league. It’s too simplistic to say we’re not scoring goals now that’s how it’s going to be going forward. To say that is ignoring what’s actually happening.

Another parallel, we went a Month without scoring before we smashed Forest 5-0.

 

As long as that cuts both ways then absolutely.

Your highlighted statement follows closely on from your observation about those being critical complaining that their opinion isn't valued the inference being that talking balls as you put it is solely confined to this group.

As long as your thinking is applied to all factions then 100% agree with you. 

[Ellafella]

8 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Sheffield Wednesday had a very poor start in the first dozen or so games last season but after they'd adjusted to this division they shot up the table to claim a play-off spot. They will compete for a top two spot this season with Derby, Ipswich and Peterborough in my opinion.

Way back in 1968-69, there were some supporters preaching the same doom and gloom as you do now when we sat in the relegation zone, winless with three points from the first five games. Then in came Willie Carlin. We lost just three games in the remainder of the season, romping the League by seven points - that's 10 in today's parlance and there were many press pundits saying it was the best Second Division team ever. The same team the next season, with just the addition of Terry Hennessey for the last 10 games, finished fourth behind Everton, Leeds and Chelsea in the top tier. 

The current team, with eight points from the first five games will get better when they become more familiar with each other I'm sure and so will the results. The recruitment has been good and it seems it is not yet over. This team will not concede many goals in this Division. I'd be worried if we weren't creating chances but we are. We've not had the rub of the green at all so far, but when that changes watch us go.They might even manage to put a smile on your face. I've every confidence that by the end of the year, they'll be competing for a top two spot.

COYR

1st emboldened: just opinion & not evidence. 
2nd emboldened: low quality chances.

Rosey-ball is simply re-hashed Cocu-ball. Ie set up far too deep, keep possession but at the cost of scoring goals. We haven’t conceded but neither have we scored. Outcome: mediocrity and mid-table. 

[Wistaston Ram]

I am just thankful, I managed to get to the game today, it is so much easier to cope with the frustration of not winning, watching live rather than having to listen to Radio Derby or follow on-line.  Another good trip (one of the easiest places to park and get to and away from) It was great to see a terrace full of Derby fans - I could almost imagine it was the mid 80s again, If only Bobby was on the pitch today.

Now to try and get a ticket for Morecombe - I want to be there when that first goal goes in.

[sage]

Just now, Elwood P Dowd said:

In the Shrewsbury match we had 13 shots with 3 on target, today we had 27 shots with 8 of them on target I consider that a step in the right direction. Was I disappointed with todays result, yes I was however, we did appear to set aside the "possession at all costs" ethos and the players took responsibility to have a go when the shooting\scoring opportunities presented themselves.

The next logical step in this road to improvement is, fingers crossed, in the next games some of those shots hit the back of the WBA or Peterborough net. 

The shots on/off target is meaningless as blocked shots are deemed to be off target. If it was split into 3, i.e. missed/blocked/saved then blocked would be by far the biggest amount.   

[InstaRam]

47 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Tbh it's the very least I would expect. But as you say, if we are doing it and others are not, well kudos. 

This is something I try to teach my 6-year olds and put great pride in. Made my day reading that! 

[LittleEatonRam]

34 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

Never said we would waltz the league. My prediction was and still is mid table. Just annoys me when people assume that those who rightfully debate and point out the issues that need sorting are branded "too demanding" and "wanting barcelona-esque" type football. It's a forum, it's an area where supporters can and should be able to debate, criticize, and offer their take on things without being lynched for it.

That's fair enough, and I complety agree that nothing should be beyond criticism. I apologise for the belligerent tone initially. I suppose I just find myself frustrated at the expectations of some fans given our recent turmoil. It's going to take a while to turn this ship around. In the mean time we should all just try to enjoy the ride and be thankful we have a club to support.

[Grumpy Git]

9 minutes ago, sage said:

The shots on/off target is meaningless as blocked shots are deemed to be off target. If it was split into 3, i.e. missed/blocked/saved then blocked would be by far the biggest amount.   

That sounds like a load of bollox to me. If a shot on target is not blocked we bloody score.

[plymouthram]

54 minutes ago, jono said:

Only saw the highlights and read the text commentary ( was at a wedding) jees how many chances ?
 

hey, we came away with a point at an away game, another day and we’d be looking at 2 or 3 nil. It’s got to be seen as one of those days. Thing I like is reading “Roseignors slick Derby” and seeing the number of shots, close shaves and a clearly dominant side. It will come good. Patience lads. A couple of wins and Collins off the mark and confidence will soar as will the fear factor. How did we look on playing out from the back ? Were we a bit slow and sideways again or is it looking more purposeful? 

Yes and with a couple of additional signings and a few wins with a team that was only put together approx 6 weeks ago, we will get better, I'm not going to state we will the league, but I'm convinced we will get better. The fixtures have not been kind to us, playing against sides at home that will probably be in the the top half of the table. With the last 2 away games being against teams we should get 3 points against, especially if we come up against them later in the season. Providing we don't have a massive injury list, we will be up there. Also lets not forget, we are the big club in the league that every team will raise their game against.

[Rev]

3 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

People who say good things come to those who wait. I say Bielsa and Cooper. If a managers the right fit he can get a load of donkeys to win matches.

Remind me again how Bielsas first season ended?

[TomTom92]

2 minutes ago, Rev said:

Remind me again how Bielsas first season ended?

Say what you want about them but even in his first season the football they played was entertaining. We turned up for one match and diddled them.  
 
Can’t say much entertainment has been had by us so far.