The Administration Thread

[Topram]

Seriously what are they doing? Why are they so out of there Depth, it’s a complete joke every week the same rubbish, getting absolutely nowhere such a joke, so frustrating and boring now! About time they got asked some serious questions 

[Tyler Durden]

Optimism is a lack of information 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, hintonsboots said:

Negotiations are continuing in order to ensure a suitable bid can be accepted that satisfies the necessary criteria to fulfill the EFL’s requirements and insolvency law.

I read this as bids have been lodged and Quantuma are attempting to negotiate them up to the minimum level to satisfy Rick et al and UK insolvency Law ? 

We need to ensure bids exceed the EFL threshold to avoid further penalty points deductions.  But also make sure quantuma get their money too (well they would want that too wouldn't they?).

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

We need to ensure bids exceed the EFL threshold to avoid further penalty points deductions.  But also make sure quantuma get their money too (well they would want that too wouldn't they?).

How will we ensure that? We can't compel interested parties to pay more than what they think the club or more correctly the debts they're buying are worth in their own minds. 

[Wistaston Ram]

12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Optimism is a lack of information 

Assumption is the mother of duck ups  (Steven Segal)

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

How will we ensure that? We can't compel interested parties to pay more than what they think the club or more correctly the debts they're buying are worth in their own minds. 

This is where I’m at. If it’s another -15 points  because the offers are limited to achieving then that’s just it. We all have a rant then get on with it.

[Eddie]

24 minutes ago, Topram said:

Seriously what are they doing? Why are they so out of there Depth, it’s a complete joke every week the same rubbish, getting absolutely nowhere such a joke, so frustrating and boring now! About time they got asked some serious questions 

You seem to be working under the assumption that Quantuma have the power to appoint a preferred bidder when it's clear that nobody wants to buy Derby for a price that will keep HMRC, the creditors and the EFL on board.

[kevinhectoring]

7 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

The rule change from 2020 essentially. It was made in order to prevent Football Cubs using Administration and a points deduction, as a means to evade Tax Debts. (Think back to Leicester)

Because of that I can't honestly see HMRC being soft. They pushed for the rule change to ensure a greater % settlement and are in effect entitled now to insist on 100%

Something is holding the sale back and I personally think this is a major issue.

I think this is confused. The 2020 tax changes weren’t aimed at football clubs. They were aimed at all companies. 
 

The rules designed to stop football clubs benefiting from administration are the EFl rules and policies 

[Yani P]

14 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

I think there are a few things being muted about Reading.

- that they are not adhering to their business plan. Not sure how people would know that and just because they signed Carroll, Drinkwater etc doesn't mean went outside it.

- their accounts for 20/21 show a large overspend with large wage bill (not part of FFP calculation or penalty), so the question is are they cutting their cloth. Who knows as it took us years to reduce our wage bill and off load the big earners.

- their business plan allows them to spend over the FFP limits. If so, the EFL need a smack, any FFP plan should ensure adherence to FFP limits. If I remember rightly Readings wage bill is about 240% of their income.

if Reading or us for that matter have a business plan that allows us to break FFP and we have received a suspended penalty then Barnsley have a point. 
 

so If Reading stay up expect Peterborough, Barnsley and Derby to get the number for their lawyers out.

WeSueAnyClub.com

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, Topram said:

Seriously what are they doing? Why are they so out of there Depth, it’s a complete joke every week the same rubbish, getting absolutely nowhere such a joke, so frustrating and boring now! About time they got asked some serious questions 

I’m not sure it’s their fault. I suspect in this case the money owed doesn’t meet the offers made and then the negotiations begin to see what deal can be made to make one of the offers acceptable. I suspect they all offer certain bits which are good and others which aren’t. I combination of all the good bits would be simple but all three fall short in one way or another.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, RipleyRich said:

At the risk of being shot down again, I think its simpler than that.

The debt is the same regardless of division. The amount required to satisfy EFL and Legal obligations is the same regardless of division.

All that realistically changes is the bidders projected payback.

As the Quantuma statement says, they are still evaluating bids and continuing negotiations to ensure a bid complies with EFL and Legal requirements. That says to me that at present they dont have, or haven't established whether they have a bid that does that.

I think @Random Access Memory’s assessment may well be correct.  ie that some bids value the club differently depending on whether or not we are relegated. Also quite possible that MM is being asked to give support to bidders, if we are relegated 

[Wignall12]

1 hour ago, Topram said:

Seriously what are they doing? Why are they so out of there Depth, it’s a complete joke every week the same rubbish, getting absolutely nowhere such a joke, so frustrating and boring now! About time they got asked some serious questions 

Leaks .......would you not keep Schtum if every time you update the EFL someone leaks and misquotes further damaging progress ? ....yes I think questions need to be asked but not in the direction you suggest 

[Tyler Durden]

We all can moan like drains about the takeover being held up by the EFL, Steve Gibsons spurious claims against us etc but all that's happened is kicking the can down the road to where we are now - no buyer prepared to offer enough money to satisfy the creditors and/or to satisfy the EFL rules to avoid us being deducted another 15 points next season. 

[uttoxram75]

6 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Well, we can all speculate as much as we like, but unfortunately none of us know.

I just can't see past the rule change and HMRC having a very high profile opportunity to use it to draw a very deep line in the sand.

Well, we can all speculate as much as we like, but unfortunately none of us know.

Oh, except the Government Minister who stated in the HoC that HMRC would not be the cause of Derby's demise. He'd know. ?

[B4ev6is]

Well it could be that what is offering that will clear the debts maybe in one go who knows maybe got make sure enough there that no more points taken off of us.

[S8TY]

Any chance of seeing the girl tapping her fingers to cheer us up …I think she was blonde ?

[Comrade 86]

7 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

There are plenty of other realists on this forum

And he's back ?

[Jon Bon Pony]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

Any chance of seeing the girl tapping her fingers to cheer us up …I think she was blonde ?

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jon Bon Pony

[RipleyRich]

10 hours ago, Eddie said:

You seem to be working under the assumption that Quantuma have the power to appoint a preferred bidder when it's clear that nobody wants to buy Derby for a price that will keep HMRC, the creditors and the EFL on board.

That`s my interpretation of the situation too.

We have to understand that, maybe with the 1 exception, the bidders are looking at the purchase as a business transaction. By all accounts the one consortium that would have an emotional attachment is reliant on US funding which would be considered a business transaction.

With that in mind, outlay, future investment and payback are critical to them.

[RipleyRich]

9 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

I think this is confused. The 2020 tax changes weren’t aimed at football clubs. They were aimed at all companies. 
 

The rules designed to stop football clubs benefiting from administration are the EFl rules and policies 

You may well be right. I am just reading what I can find and interpreting it as best I can.

It`s this bit that concerns me, taken directly from Quantuma`s own article titled: "Is rescuing Football Clubs a thing of the past?"

Changes to status of HMRC tax debt

With effect from 1 December 2020, HMRC will receive preferential status for all tax debt. This means these debts get paid ahead of other unsecured debts as well as some secured debts and crucially, as a preferential debt, it cannot be compromised. As a result, clubs will need to pay HMRC in full.

Now I appreciate a number of members of this forum have had a go at me over this, and some think I have a hidden agenda which I can assure you I have not. I am just reading and gathering factual information and trying to put the pieces together and that piece of information concerns me more than anything else I have found.

It however doesn`t state debts have to be paid in full to exit administration, so my assumption is a new owner can agree a payment plan over an agreed period. But reading that my understanding is that the Tax Bill will have to be settled in full at some point.