The Administration Thread

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

8 hours ago, Mckram said:

Totally agree. Again though, if you’re Leeds/Villa/Bournemouth/Leicester/Wolves it’s paid off and the owners are still loved. It just shows how flawed the whole thing is.

I can only think of Burnley and Norwich who have got up sustainably…maybe Brighton? Even then someone may prove me wrong.

Brentford, made a profit, oh and they built a stadium in London (not the cheapestplace for real estate)

[Boycie]

3 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Brentford, made a profit, oh and they built a stadium in London (not the cheapestplace for real estate)

Wasn’t it a community stadium like Brighton’s? Council invested etc?

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

3 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Wasn’t it a community stadium like Brighton’s? Council invested etc?

It is a community stadium but i think the owner was underwriting for some of the costs to build it something like that. Dont know about the land.

[Charliegeorge1962]

I possibly think it irrelevant now who might come in unless we can show we have enough funds in the next week to see out the season.

It does look good at the moment.

TBH, I wouldn't let the administrators run a tap let alone this sorry saga.

[PistoldPete]

33 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

@kevinhectoring @duncanjwitham @davenportram thanks for your posts late yesterday. Appreciated.

I had seen the BAWT minutes, but did skim through them whilst working, but had not seen Morris had agreed to grant a purchase option on the stadium post-Administration. Perhaps I am blind to anything good Morris might do ??

That does make the Binnie offer more workable, as presumably the offer of £28m has been made on the assumption that MSD will be (100%) happy to accept an extended term loan on the current debt, cross supported still by personal guarantee and third party stadium security from Mel and Gellaw, confirmed football debtors will get 100%, and HMRC and unsecured creditors 25% each, all under a CVA arrangement. The EFL also  can retain their tenuous hold on the arbitration claims being contingent football creditors.

The above said, I personally still would like to see a deal proceed where we get the stadium back now, Morris is consigned to the waste bin of football history, and the EFL and Gibson crushed in a Court of Law. 3 points today would be the cherry on top.

I skim through my work whilst busy checking on the Rams news. 
Even so I am thoroughly confused by the MSD situation. Don't Derby have a loan from MSD of £20m. SO how is an offer of £28 million going to lead us out of insolvency? Other debts about £40m. Some of them genuine football debts. So don't all creditors get less than 25%? Can't imagine HMRC being happy with that.    

[Boycie]

1 minute ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

It is a community stadium but i think the owner was underwriting for some of the costs to build it something like that. Dont know about the land.

I think the ground is situated in a triangular piece of land surrounded by three railway lines, just north of Kew Bridge if I remember right?

[Mucker1884]

11 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Usually in US if you can run for republican senator you are loaded unless one of our US resident fans can correct me. Just because you havent heard of them doesnt mean they're not rich.
 

Not aimed at you at all just generally but looking at this thread tonight cant get over how picky some suddenly are. It may not work out but we have an actual bidder. an actual formal bidder. Can we not just enjoy that thought tonight and analyse the amounts that will cover, why some with no knowledge seem to have taken against them already etc etc another time. I really thought the claims were going to see everyone off.  We have a bidder. Imagine the mood in Parry Towers, Gibson's grotto and other one's tacky mansion ????

I just love how... even after all this time... None of us still don't know his name!  ?

 

[sage]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I skim through my work whilst busy checking on the Rams news. 
Even so I am thoroughly confused by the MSD situation. Don't Derby have a loan from MSD of £20m. SO how is an offer of £28 million going to lead us out of insolvency? Other debts about £40m. Some of them genuine football debts. So don't all creditors get less than 25%? Can't imagine HMRC being happy with that.    

Derby don't owe MSD £21m.

Mel does as a mortgage on the ground. 

If the new owner buys the ground he COULD pay this to own the ground OR rent it off Mel who continues to pay the mortgage 

 

[StarterForTen]

6 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I think the ground is situated in a triangular piece of land surrounded by three railway lines, just north of Kew Bridge if I remember right?

It is indeed. And the project has largely been underwritten by the development of more than 250 flats at an average of £750k each. Being adjacent to Kew station allows that!

Ive visited the stadium when working with London Irish rugby club and what they have built on that parcel of land is boggling 

[Ewetube]

Didn't get much chance to post anything yesterday.

I'm genuinely thrilled to finally hear some positive news.

I'm not putting the Bollinger on ice yet though. I'm sure there will be a few more twists and turns yet; this is Derby County afterall. 

[CBRammette]

23 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

I just love how... even after all this time... None of us still don't know his name!  ?

 

He's such a nothing I dont think we should bother either!!!!

[Eatonram]

Did I hear right that £28m was described as the “asking price”? What does this cover? Maguire said not even enough to cover football debts??

[Mucker1884]

9 hours ago, rufus said:

Better than having to trawl through all of this pointless crap to find the important points. Should be left in seperate threads.

Problem being, "seperate threads" (sic) also become clogged up with "Pointless crap".  Posters A, B, & C post twitter/News/Official statements/Updates etc on the already-running Admin thread.  Posters D, E, & F post those exact same statements/Updates on the separate new and improved thread.
Some folk then feel the need to respond in identical fashion to both threads.  

Ergo, trawling is required, be it on one thread, or two.  One reduces (slightly) the need for repetition, and is therefore the preferred option to the majority.

#embracethemerge

 

 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

43 minutes ago, Charliegeorge1962 said:

I possibly think it irrelevant now who might come in unless we can show we have enough funds in the next week to see out the season.

It does look good at the moment.

TBH, I wouldn't let the administrators run a tap let alone this sorry saga.

You are joking me. 
 

How could anybody have done any different. It looks to me they’ve done a brilliant job in attracting interest in a club that had been ran so badly. 
 

But I suppose some people wouldn’t be appreciative because it wasn’t sorted by October 1st. 

[StaffsRam]

The only thing really that can be levelled at the Admins is that the MFC/WW claims should have come to a head much earlier. That being said they were likely working on the basis that the EFL are a reasonable organisation, which we know of course is a wildly inaccurate assumption to have made.

Other than that it’s just the lack of comms, but given how the EFL, MFC and WW have put their collective feet in their gobs every time they’ve opened their yappers, perhaps radio silence wasn’t so unwise after all…

[Sparkle]

13 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Sorry buddy, you are a long way away from being correct.

MSD are a creditor of the club - DCFC borrowed the money not Mel or his Gellaw Companies. So it is DCFC’s problem. The way that the Stadium security has been set up is that if DCFC can’t pay all of the debt, anything left unpaid after Administration (or Liquidation if the worst came to the worst) is only then the responsibility of Mel/Gellaw to repay.

So if the Binnies are only wanting to buy the Club, and not the stadium, and they are only paying £28m, well them MSD are not going to be fully repaid from the work currently being undertaken by Quantuma. The only real security of any worth that MSD have over the football club assets is the fixed charges they have on the leases of the stadium and training ground, but I can’t imagine either of those are worth a great deal in value.

I can’t be bothered to do the math tonight regarding how £28m might be cut and sliced, but if we want the Club to continue to play football we know the monies need to repay football creditors 100%, and Quantuma’s fees need to be paid too.  So about £12m has gone already. £16m then has to keep MSD happy (in for about £23m probably at this time), and also HMRC (£27m) and unsecured creditors (say £28m). Interesting how that might be sliced, especially as anything less than 25% to each gives the EFL the opportunity to deduct further points from us.

Doesn't look attractive to me, and as I said above it won’t look attractive to MSD or Morris. And I am pretty certain it won’t look attractive to Quantuma either, and I can’t see it being a preferred bid unless it ends up as the only bid. Quantuma and MSD, and not so important myself, would want to see the preferred bidder doing a deal for the stadium simultaneously. It’s cleaner for all concerned, and gets rid of Morris out of the equation, and gives the Club owner total control over the stadium.

The only real merit of the bid is that a) it is a bid to be considered, and b) Binnie appears happy to take on Boro & Wycombe down the track. Other than that I am struggling, but let’s be honest beggars can’t be choosers in the chair we currently sit.

I must say the football creditor rule needs getting rid off it’s just so unfair on everyone else who is owed money and it would make football clubs be a lot more careful as well 

[G STAR RAM]

49 minutes ago, sage said:

Derby don't owe MSD £21m.

Mel does as a mortgage on the ground. 

If the new owner buys the ground he COULD pay this to own the ground OR rent it off Mel who continues to pay the mortgage 

From everything I had read up to this point, I had believed that the £20m was a debt of Derby County, however, having re-visited the statement of affairs, I now agree with you that it isn't, instead I believe it to be a debt of a group company secured against club assets.

If that is correct, the actual debts of the club stand at around £64m.

Of that £64m circa £12m is owed to related companies (Gellaw and Club DCFC) so one would assume that these may not need to be repaid?

A further £6m was for advance season ticket sales, once again, although a liability by definition, this is something that will not need to be repaid if we are going to carry on trading.

If my thoughts and calculations are  correct, we therefore need £46m to pay off the creditors in full.

£8m of that relates to transfer installments so could also be due over a period of time.

Is it possible that we've all got swept away with the sensationalist headlines in the media and although bad, the debts of the club are actually not as catastrophic as painted?

In another couple of months time there will be another £10m? coming in the form of season ticket sales and our forward projections may show is in a sustainable position?

Its been a while but for the first time in a long time I feel optimistic about the future.

Oh and we're going to smash the red dogs today. COYR!

[Sparkle]

13 hours ago, Andicis said:

 

I am sorry Gary but the EFL were willing to watch Derby disappear as were Middlesbrough and Wycombe - it will never be forgiven in these parts 

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

It is a community stadium but i think the owner was underwriting for some of the costs to build it something like that. Dont know about the land.

Not sure how the stadium is factoring in to things here, but even a club like Brentford are reliant on owner investment and player sales to function.

[Maharan]

8 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I must say the football creditor rule needs getting rid off it’s just so unfair on everyone else who is owed money and it would make football clubs be a lot more careful as well 

That would create huge problems for transfer business surely? Everyone would want paying up front.