The Administration Thread

[kevinhectoring]

15 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

Don’t know his wealth although he could not want to admit he is in fact a billionaire. He could well be. Maybe he’s not. 

nice to see a well balanced post on here for a change 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

I don’t think we will struggle attracting players next season. There are many decent players out of contract, alongside many who will want to play in front of 20,000+ fans every other week. We are a big club and a big draw. The challenge for Wayne will be the right players and the right characters. The scattergun approaches Sunderland and Ipswich have taken in recent years has set them back. We need to get this right. But despite any restrictions Wayne will have more freedom than last summer and somehow he managed to cobble together squad that would have comfortably survived in the championship in normal circumstances. So I’m confident he will get it right.

Recruitment of academy players is also important and I think where most of the “40” will come from, to rebalance the U18s and U23s and enable the next products to grow and improve and be promoted if ready. We might also pick up some gems. A lot has been said about recruitment but our recruitment in this area has been outstanding. Think it was Nixon that said whoever is in charge of academy recruitment we need to handcuff them to the club or something to that effect.

If CK is the real deal and this gets done, with Rooney already in place and a clear vision about where we want to go and how we’re going to do it, then good times are around the corner whatever restrictions the EFL throw at us. 

Problem is the cost.  If your hammering down the amount being paid to creditors or becoming involved in 3 year payment plans, you will have to satisfy them - primarily HMRC- that the money spent is allowing increase in the profitability of the business to ensure the plan is adhered to, or has potential for being expedited.  Ultimately, we need a minimum of 10 first teamers supplemented by a few youngsters and the rest has to have provable requirement, along with the wages paid.  That will be the priority for us and those waiting for debt to cleared.  I can see no way we get away with running an academy like we have with the costs involved for a few years, or if it's affordable at League 1 level.  

[RamBeauIV]

2 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Why is investment required?

How many players do you think Rooney can get in for "Free"?

Free Transfers are not "Free" There will be Signing on Fees & Agents Fees to be paid and potentially other negotiated benefits. Once a player is out of contract they, and more importantly their Agent, hold the power. A Free Transfer means there is no fee to be paid to a Club, leaving the Players Agent in a better position to negotiate a more financially beneficial deal for their client (and themselves). There will be cases where this is not so, but usually where a player is so undesirable that there is no competition for his signature.

Often Free Agents are able to negotiate higher wages and / or longer contracts that they would ordinarily be able to. This can cause issues going forward. Just for example look down the road at Lyle Taylor. Forest picked him up for free amidst lots of competition by offering him a 3 year deal instead of the 2 other clubs were offering for the same wages. Now they are stuck with him until the end of his contract and subsidising his loan costs.

Considering the likely hood of L1, it`s going to be harder to attract players. Convincing players to sign for L1 against Championship offers will inevitably mean higher wages and / or longer contracts than rival offers. Derby County & Wayne Rooney will have some attraction, but when it comes down to Players & Agents, cash is king. It`s a short career, one bad tackle and it can be all over and they will in most cases take the best financial offer.

And this is going to be within the scope of a controlled business plan imposed by the EFL and potentially with a 15 point handicap making a return to Championship Football less likely in the immediate future. Couple that to massively reduced income (TV money and reduced match day revenue)

With these restrictions, building a squad this summer is going to be WR`s biggest challenge in Football Management. I personally think he will use the maximum he can for loans. They often come with fees, but not all clubs insist on that and he will have to draw on his contacts to get the best out of that system. The big benefit with loans is short term commitment, and the potential for higher quality players than the free transfer route may be able to offer.

It`s certainly going to be an interesting summer, and we won`t really be able to second guess anything until the Club exits administration, any points deduction known and the business plan imposed.

Excellent Post which does give a good insight into some of the issues that WR will face over the summer.

Why is investment required? The bottom line is that the EFL will not let us start 2022-23 season unless CK can show proof of funds to the value of the agreed budget for the whole year (and not just a photocopy of the £60M bank statement doing the rounds of DCFC, Q, EFL and PNE - but as PNE wanted, evidence as to the sources of the money trail that led to the £60M). Typically, £16M is required for the Championship (as in Reading's case for next season; less in L1).

I like RipleyRich's take on the parasites (agents). You could call it a good thing (for protecting us) or a bad thing (for limiting who WR can bring in), but the EFL Business Plan takes this on board as part of the sanctions (with Thanks to Reading ...):

• A Cap on Total Player Salary Costs (e.g. £16M in Championship; a Lot less in L1).
• A Cap on the Average Salary of all NEW Contracted Players
• A Cap on the Salary of any NEW Contracted Player
• A Cap on the Total Number of Permitted Players (e.g. 25)
• A Cap on any Transfer Fee, Compensation Fee, or Loan Fee paid
• A Cap (e.g. 3% of Player's Salary) on backhanders/bungs/agents fees.
• A Suspended Points Deduction (e.g. 6 Points) if any of these conditions are breached.

So, Keeping the current big earners reduces what we can pay incoming players - whilst the caps work at so many different levels (maximums and averages), so no marquee signing; no new big earner, even if a freebie; no big loan stars; and no big bung to an agent to get a free agent to sign.

Thankfully, CK has prioritised the most important decision in getting WR on board with the project.   In 2020 BC (Before Covid), the average salary of a L1 player was £4,753 per week with an average squad size of 28 players (in L2 = £2,191 pw).  In 2022 AD (After Dominic), salaries have fallen, circa £4,500 pw in L1.  I guess these are the sorts of wages that the EFL will impose on us next year (if we're lucky).  If the Average Salary Cap is £4.5K per week, I bet it will be a lot less if we take a 15-point hit.  The only good news is that there will be a lot of released Championship players next month.

 

 

 

[Ram-Alf]

22 minutes ago, Kathcairns said:

If ck takes over and rooney stays i think we will get a good crowd, especially if we win alot of games. Seeing your team play well and win games is what football is all about no matter what league you are in.

Fans will be watching closely during the close season, A big factor will be -15 points if they are applied, Then they'll see what players are brought in during the summer, Friendlies are important it gives the supporters a taster of what WR and co will be setting their team up, Then the big ask, If we start well in the 1st 10 games...the cash will be flooding in from those who choose to go...again.

[Crewton]

Unless I'm mistaken, the financial restrictions on signing players, as described above, are no worse than the ones imposed by the EFL since last summer. Rooney still managed  to persuade Jagielka, Stearman, Allsop, Baldock and Davies to sign, and would have signed more had it not been for the "player of professional standing" limitation - in that respect, there'll be allot more headroom, since we'll end this season with no more than 3-5 contracted players of professional standing. I'm therefore reasonably confident that, if Rooney stays on, he will be able to persuade enough players to sign to ensure we have a full squad (subject to the size limit). Whether it will be good enough to compete is another question, and it will be a challenge of course, but I don't envisage numbers being a major problem. Even better if he can persuade some of the existing squad to re-sign on reduced terms in some cases, though that will obviously depend on the take-over being completed and cleared by the relevant bodies in sufficient time. 

[CornwallRam]

17 minutes ago, RamBeauIV said:

Excellent Post which does give a good insight into some of the issues that WR will face over the summer.

Why is investment required? The bottom line is that the EFL will not let us start 2022-23 season unless CK can show proof of funds to the value of the agreed budget for the whole year (and not just a photocopy of the £60M bank statement doing the rounds of DCFC, Q, EFL and PNE - but as PNE wanted, evidence as to the sources of the money trail that led to the £60M). Typically, £16M is required for the Championship (as in Reading's case for next season; less in L1).

I like RipleyRich's take on the parasites (agents). You could call it a good thing (for protecting us) or a bad thing (for limiting who WR can bring in), but the EFL Business Plan takes this on board as part of the sanctions (with Thanks to Reading ...):

• A Cap on Total Player Salary Costs (e.g. £16M in Championship; a Lot less in L1).
• A Cap on the Average Salary of all NEW Contracted Players
• A Cap on the Salary of any NEW Contracted Player
• A Cap on the Total Number of Permitted Players (e.g. 25)
• A Cap on any Transfer Fee, Compensation Fee, or Loan Fee paid
• A Cap (e.g. 3% of Player's Salary) on backhanders/bungs/agents fees.
• A Suspended Points Deduction (e.g. 6 Points) if any of these conditions are breached.

So, Keeping the current big earners reduces what we can pay incoming players - whilst the caps work at so many different levels (maximums and averages), so no marquee signing; no new big earner, even if a freebie; no big loan stars; and no big bung to an agent to get a free agent to sign.

Thankfully, CK has prioritised the most important decision in getting WR on board with the project.   In 2020 BC (Before Covid), the average salary of a L1 player was £4,753 per week with an average squad size of 28 players (in L2 = £2,191 pw).  In 2022 AD (After Dominic), salaries have fallen, circa £4,500 pw in L1.  I guess these are the sorts of wages that the EFL will impose on us next year (if we're lucky).  If the Average Salary Cap is £4.5K per week, I bet it will be a lot less if we take a 15-point hit.  The only good news is that there will be a lot of released Championship players next month.

 

 

 

All very sensible proposals. The problem is that Sky will not allow it.

Their business model depends on the Premier League bringing in world class players and having competitive matches. They don't want 6 clubs spending nothing just in case they get relegated and promoted clubs being too weak to get 11 points.

Sky run the game, so we can forget sustainability based on economy. The best we can hope for is a decent TV deal for the Championship - no parachute payments, but every club gets £50m. Then ban borrowing beyond £1m and abolish the transfer window.

[CornwallRam]

13 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

All very sensible proposals. The problem is that Sky will not allow it.

Their business model depends on the Premier League bringing in world class players and having competitive matches. They don't want 6 clubs spending nothing just in case they get relegated and promoted clubs being too weak to get 11 points.

Sky run the game, so we can forget sustainability based on economy. The best we can hope for is a decent TV deal for the Championship - no parachute payments, but every club gets £50m. Then ban borrowing beyond £1m and abolish the transfer window.

That'll teach me for not reading the post properly. I see you meant that as an outline business plan - which is actually a superb point.

Skim reading me thought that you proposed a sensible way of making the Championship sustainable. Apologies for the ridiculous answer.?

[Scott129]

1 hour ago, Kathcairns said:

If ck takes over and rooney stays i think we will get a good crowd, especially if we win alot of games. Seeing your team play well and win games is what football is all about no matter what league you are in.

Season tickets should be a bit cheaper in League 1 too ?

[Rambalin]

5 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

Season tickets should be a bit cheaper in League 1 too ?

Cannot see that, a price freeze maybe but no reduction. Would like to see season ticket holders in this season thanked for all they have put up with by a free season or possibly a discounted season ticket but not sure it will happen. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Rambalin

[Tamworthram]

Just now, Rambalin said:

Cannot see that, a price freeze maybe but no reduction. Would like to see season ticket holders in this season thanked for all they have put up with by a free season or possibly a discounted season ticket but not sure it will happen. 

A free season ticket? Are you serious? I thought we were trying to get the club back on it’s feet.

I agree, a price freeze is probably the most likely and personally, I’d be satisfied with that.

[angieram]

31 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

Cannot see that, a price freeze maybe but no reduction. Would like to see season ticket holders in this season thanked for all they have put up with by a free season or possibly a discounted season ticket but not sure it will happen. 

Most of us have just had a free season ticket, courtesy of lockdown the season before. You want another? 

[ollycutts1982]

34 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

A free season ticket? Are you serious? I thought we were trying to get the club back on it’s feet.

I agree, a price freeze is probably the most likely and personally, I’d be satisfied with that.

If it meant putting some money in the coffers I would be willing to pay a slight increase. I think our prices have always been relatively reasonable.

[Wignall12]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

nice to see a well balanced post on here for a change 

Yeah, but no, but yeah but no !

[CBRammette]

1 hour ago, Rambalin said:

Cannot see that, a price freeze maybe but no reduction. Would like to see season ticket holders in this season thanked for all they have put up with by a free season or possibly a discounted season ticket but not sure it will happen. 

I think we are sure it wont happen. The club will need all the money it can get

[Addingham Ram]

Remember the good old days where season ticket holders got Cup vouchers?

It might not be a bad idea to offer all season ticket holders next year the chance to see one of, or all of, the first home matches in any cup competition(s) for free?

[Tamworthram]

12 minutes ago, Addingham Ram said:

Remember the good old days where season ticket holders got Cup vouchers?

It might not be a bad idea to offer all season ticket holders next year the chance to see one of, or all of, the first home matches in any cup competition(s) for free?

Whilst it might be a nice gesture, the club is going to need every penny it can get and the chance to watch one or more early round cup games for free isn’t likely to generate any more ST sales IMO. 

[Ewe Ram]

4 hours ago, mrdave85 said:

We have a great support, but do you really think we’ll continue to get 20,000+ at home in league one? I think it would take an effort from supporters groups akin to organising the march each week to keep that support going.

I’ve a horrible feeling as soon as relegation is confirmed PP will be empty without constant drumming up of supporters

I’m not sure about that. I don’t go to watch the opposition, I go to watch Derby play football. I’ll be far happier going to watch us playing without embargoes etc, we’ll be on a level playing field. 

[rammieib]

If my ST is the same price as it was for this season (i.e The same price as it was for the season before), I will be more than happy.

Maybe throw in a Johnston's Paint Trophy game for free ?

[duncanjwitham]

With attendances, I don't think they'll drop that much for 'normal' games - maybe down 1-2k or something, but we'll lose a lot of the massive games that pack out the stadium and drag the average up.  There's no Forest game and no games against recently relegated Prem teams with good players etc.  We regularly get north of 30k for those kind of games.  Sheffield Wednesday is normally a big crowd (assuming they don't come up), likewise Burton will probably be well attended, but that's probably it.  And you can probably add a few sub 20k midweek games too - who's going to choose to come out on a cold Tuesday to watch us play Morecambe or something.

[Wignall12]

13 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

With attendances, I don't think they'll drop that much for 'normal' games - maybe down 1-2k or something, but we'll lose a lot of the massive games that pack out the stadium and drag the average up.  There's no Forest game and no games against recently relegated Prem teams with good players etc.  We regularly get north of 30k for those kind of games.  Sheffield Wednesday is normally a big crowd (assuming they don't come up), likewise Burton will probably be well attended, but that's probably it.  And you can probably add a few sub 20k midweek games too - who's going to choose to come out on a cold Tuesday to watch us play Morecambe or something.

Not even if they offer potted shrimps on toast ?