The Administration Thread

[Topram]

Feels like the beginning of the end 

[i-Ram]

23 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Genuine question: at what point is it justified to start getting antsy? 

I have no problem with agitation and impatience being expressed by anyone. That’s a natural emotion. My only rider being that it is channelled appropriately.

I am just fed up, mainly for others really, that posters keep coming on here posting absolute garbage, with no facts to support it - in fact in total contradiction to facts that we know to be true.

Anyway, at least David might be indirectly getting back some of the money Morris owes him with all this increased traffic. Every cloud.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

what's the alternative narrative?? As far as I am concerned and aware, the narrative of mismanagement is wholly accurate.

I keep saying Mel has made loads of mistakes but to suggest the EFL haven’t had it in for DCFC  and Mel Morris is inaccurate IMO.

The other narratives are Boro and Wycombe making claims against th club/MM 

 

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

If what you are saying is true, then the club's financial position is massively worse than we all thought, because the club is directly on the hock for that extra £20m on top of everything else.  All the talk of £50m to clear debts and get the stadium is nonsense, it's more like £70m.

The companies house files indicate all the debt is cross collateralised. So it does not really matter whether it’s borrowed by 202 or DCFC, they are both on the hook for the full amount. It’s all revealed in the Gellaw 202 and DCFC charges registers at companies house. 

[S8TY]

There has to be a change where a football clubs ground cannot be bought separately from the club 

Morris thought he was being clever selling the ground and then investing the money into the club and supposedly keeping us afloat and avoiding ffp etc etc but the reality is his stupidity in doing this has now separated the ground from the club 

if he hadn’t done this and it meant going into admin earlier if he couldn’t sell the club then we probably would’ve had a buyer by now because it included the stadium and a half decent squad !!!

so yet again Morris’s business decisions have ended up making a bad situation even worse!!! We are in big trouble now and Collymore was right when he said we were in massive grave danger as a club 

no sympathy for Morris  none at all only for us fans and people working at our great club !!!

[DarkFruitsRam7]

5 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I have no problem with agitation and impatience being expressed by anyone. That’s a natural emotion. My only rider being that it is channelled appropriately.

I am just fed up, mainly for others really, that posters keep coming on here posting absolute garbage, with no facts to support it - in fact in total contradiction to facts that we know to be true.

Anyway, at least David might be indirectly getting back some of the money Morris owes him with all this increased traffic. Every cloud.

What specifically is being said that's untrue?

I'm not disagreeing; I'm just trying to figure out what's fact and what's speculation. Haven't been following this thread too much as it takes so much time to read through.

[duncanjwitham]

9 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The companies house files indicate all the debt is cross collateralised. So it does not really matter whether it’s borrowed by 202 or DCFC, they are both on the hook for the full amount. It’s all revealed in the Gellaw 202 and DCFC charges registers at companies house. 

Yeah, that's basically my understanding too.  But the poster I was replying to seems to be claiming that there are 2 MSD loans, a £20m one entirely in the clubs hands, secured on the training ground, and a completely separate one secured on Pride Park.  Which I'm pretty sure is nonsense, or we'd know about it by now.

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, S8TY said:

There has to be a change where a football clubs ground cannot be bought separately from the club 

Morris thought he was being clever selling the ground and then investing the money into the club and supposedly keeping us afloat and avoiding ffp etc etc but the reality is his stupidity in doing this has now separated the ground from the club 

if he hadn’t done this and it meant going into admin earlier if he couldn’t sell the club then we probably would’ve had a buyer by now because it included the stadium and a half decent squad !!!

so yet again Morris’s business decisions have ended up making a bad situation even worse!!! We are in big trouble now and Collymore was right when he said we were in massive grave danger as a club 

no sympathy for Morris  none at all only for us fans and people working at our great club !!!

Just a couple of thoughts. I don’t think Mel Morris did necessarily think he was being clever selling the ground; it became a needs must to avoid FFP sanction. I also don’t think the transaction actually created any new cash going into the club. My opinion, for what worth, is that it simply offset previous loans he had made.

Now depending on what Morris does next, he could actually have done us a favour. If the ground was still in the ownership of the Club, I doubt creditors, in particular HMRC, would be twiddling their thumbs waiting to see if they might get 25%. Morris having control of the ground prevents them appointing a receiver for the Stadium and recovering perhaps all their monies.

But, it all comes back to Morris. It always has done, despite the many posters who mocked me in previous months - water off a ducks back though. He has significant/too much control of this situation. It is the price and terms to be paid for the stadium that is holding everything up. Q are ‘simply’ at the moment trying to find the sweet spot between what the PB’s will pay for it and what Morris (and MSD) will accept. It is within Morris’s gift to make this more straightforward. We shall see.

[i-Ram]

13 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

What specifically is being said that's untrue?

I'm not disagreeing; I'm just trying to figure out what's fact and what's speculation. Haven't been following this thread too much as it takes so much time to read through.

I might come back to you on this Nick, but my lunch break has ended it, and I am pretty tied up today. Certainly what Trav was saying seems utter nonsense.

[Mostyn6]

19 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I keep saying Mel has made loads of mistakes but to suggest the EFL haven’t had it in for DCFC  and Mel Morris is inaccurate IMO.

The other narratives are Boro and Wycombe making claims against th club/MM 

 

they're all by-products of the narrative though. Had their been no mismanagement by the steward(s) operating the club, those issues would not exist.

[kevinhectoring]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Yeah, that's basically my understanding too.  But the poster I was replying to seems to be claiming that there are 2 MSD loans, a £20m one entirely in the clubs hands, secured on the training ground, and a completely separate one secured on Pride Park.  Which I'm pretty sure is nonsense, or we'd know about it by now.

agree. The training ground is leasehold isn’t it so surely wouldn’t support a 20m loan. MSD was 20 plus a wc loan of 5 to the admins I think. MSD’s annual report last year confirmed the 20. But interest is probably rolling up, and maybe fees as well 

There is material ongoing cost and Q needed to show urgency from the day of their appointment. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Had their been no mismanagement by the steward(s)

I always knew those gits in the hi-vis jackets were shady! 

Never loved the club, spend all game with their backs to the action watching the crowd!

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

agree. The training ground is leasehold isn’t it so surely wouldn’t support a 20m loan. MSD was 20 plus a wc loan of 5 to the admins I think. MSD’s annual report last year confirmed the 20. But interest is probably rolling up, and maybe fees as well 

There is material ongoing cost and Q needed to show urgency from the day of their appointment. 

Yeah, the Quantuma statement of affairs lists the MSD charge as secured against a whole pile of stuff, including what looks like the entire playing staff at ~£39m (book value, obviously) and buildings at ~£7.5m, which I'd guess is the training ground.  There's no way there's enough there in total (given the nebulous nature of player values etc) to properly satisfy a lender for £20m+ IMO.

[glyn1957]

29 minutes ago, Flying Fokker said:

I remember that game.  A policeman assaulted a fan in block 18.  Blatant thuggery by the law.  We had marches through the city. Protests and disdain and division amongst the fans once the team was taken out of the city.  Somehow the fans that stayed away were not as real as the ones that went to their exiled home games.   I did not travel to Northampton or Birmingham on principle. To me, the owners were charlatans and i've seen quotes from other clubs fans about how CCFC cheated etc.  The truth is, fans are the victims, albeit we contribute to the pressure on owners to produce a club that challenges.  The years pass by and the time in lower tiers mount up.   I just hope that the new owners find a way of playing in Derby, in front of 30k fans.  

I was born Derby.  But moved to Coventry as a 2 year old.  My first game was Cov vs Derby.  My first away game was at the Baseball Ground.  Always followed the scores and never quite understood why Derby were 'nearly' there in the Prem.  No offence meant because Derby is a big club and the crowds prove it.  Just some inept ownership over the years (Both Rams and Cov).

 

I remember the news on midlands today as it followed the cause of the CCFC fans ,i have followed this team for so long it is actually starting to affect me mainly anger towards the EFL, i know it"s not all the fault of the charlatans that pretend to look after the game but i do believe that they have taken great pleasure in punishing ,punishing  and punishing us again and again.

 

[ck-]

4 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Binnies offered £30 million for the stadium and the club. A stadium that normally has twice the Preston gate. 
 

I don’t think Preston squad is worth more than ours tbh. Even if we only had five players. 

That works be true if it weren’t for the awkward fact that they’re 5 points higher in the table than we’d be without our 21 point deduction, and with a game in hand. 

[Curtains]

16 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

they're all by-products of the narrative though. Had their been no mismanagement by the steward(s) operating the club, those issues would not exist.

Correct.

Thats history I’m more worried about the present 

[DavesaRam]

18 hours ago, Alty_Ram said:

Wonder if Quantuma have actually spoken to the EFL yet ? I have visions of them all stood at the end of the EFL driveway trying to decide who is going to knock on the door like a bunch of kids trying to decide who gets to ask mad old Mr Jones for their ball back, knowing full well that the answer will be "No !" and a lot of stick waving.

I suppose that if they had actually met then surely a hand-picked journalist or two would have blurted something out by now saying Derby are doomed/docked 150 points/relegated/other apocalyptic outcome.

I'm sure it's all in hand and going well at Quantuma. They're probably just clarifying some clarifications on unclear things that need clarity...

So to be absolutely clear ...............

[Ambitious]

Obviously, it's concerning the news coming from various outlets in the media. However, I don't think anything tangible has changed over the course of the last few days.

I've been very sour about the situation since we went into administration as the more information that came out simply worried me that we're effectively awaiting a knight in shining armour rather than a buyer as the financial outlook is so incredibly bleak for a club with such few assets. We barely have anyone contracted to the club and under constant scrutiny from the EFL which has imposed blocks on contract extensions. We've been asset stripping since day one, albeit a lot of them are academy prospects that fall under the radar of the everyday fan. The club has been rotting since COVID with no one steering the ship. 

Nevertheless, the new stories coming out are something that I can piece together and regurgitate. I don't feel like it's new information. It's all very much a doomsday prediction based on evidence already in the public domain from the past two, three months. Don't get me wrong, it's extremely likely we could be liquidated because I said we are not simply waiting on a buyer/investor - we are waiting on someone to effectively throw money in the bin that is Derby County. We need someone who is willing to wade through the poo with the EFL which will still very much be an on-going battle. We don't pay non-football creditors 25p in the £ then we will start next season on -15 with heavy restrictions on signings and wages. We don't have anywhere near the amount of players required for a sunday league team going into next season, nevermind a professional club. 

Simply put, now, I don't believe there is anyone out there willing to do enough to keep Derby County in a reasonable shape. We are at best destined for long spell of austerity and at worst liquidation. I could potentially see Mel Morris stopping the club being liquidated, albeit not without a point deduction next season, but what sort of future does the club have with that situation. It's not something I have the stomach to consider or witness. 

[Ewe Ram]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

With respect, @Big Travhas never given me the impression he knows the difference between his socks and his underpants. I would relax if I were you.

Indeed everyone, FFS, chill out. So much mis-information on this thread in the last few days. Just wait for Q to make their next report. There isnt anything you can do, and no amount of posting misinformation and supposition is going to help (particular those who seem on the edge regarding the current situation).

This is also what I don’t understand. Why is everyone getting all wound up over ‘it is thought’ and ‘it’s alleged’??

it’s not fact so why bother getting in a state about it. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

47 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

What specifically is being said that's untrue?

I'm not disagreeing; I'm just trying to figure out what's fact and what's speculation. Haven't been following this thread too much as it takes so much time to read through.

I’ve seen somewhere on this thread that Mel is a decent guy.