Darren Wassall

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Take a bow son. 
 

50% of the starting 10 outfield players today from the academy. 
 

Somebody said earlier this week that we should scrap the academy - I’m not so sure. 
 

My mates lad plays in the academy and said to me recently how well all the staff have handled the situation and it’s as if nothing has happened since we went into administration. That only comes from great leadership. 

[cosmic]

But I thought the academy staff were crap because of that mum who comes on here every now and then to share unsubstantiated gossip.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

3 minutes ago, cosmic said:

But I thought the academy staff were crap because of that mum who comes on here every now and then to share unsubstantiated gossip.

Sour grapes for some reason. 

[Sparkle]

7 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Take a bow son. 
 

50% of the starting 10 outfield players today from the academy. 
 

Somebody said earlier this week that we should scrap the academy - I’m not so sure. 
 

My mates lad plays in the academy and said to me recently how well all the staff have handled the situation and it’s as if nothing has happened since we went into administration. That only comes from great leadership. 

I asked the value of paying £6 million a year academy costs if the youngsters get stolen by other clubs - let me be clear I don’t want them sold cheap or stolen for next to nothing 

[Wignall12]

Our academy will be our saviour ......no more talk of scrapping it !

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

3 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I asked the value of paying £6 million a year academy costs if the youngsters get stolen by other clubs - let me be clear I don’t want them sold cheap or stolen for next to nothing 

There’s always going to be a few that get stolen but the 5 players that started today would command an OK fee. 
 

When we’re a top Championship club or lower half premier league club, that’s when we will see even bigger rewards for the players we produce. 

[Bris Vegas]

I’d be tempted to scrap it and create a B team or development team. Can still flood it with youngsters of course but also use it for recruitment of players to develop for the first team.

Over the years we certainly haven’t made the most of it. Or we’ve had good players at U18 level but their progress for whatever reason has stopped there.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I’d be tempted to scrap it and create a B team or development team. Can still flood it with youngsters of course but also use it for recruitment of players to develop for the first team.

Over the years we certainly haven’t made the most of it. Or we’ve had good players at U18 level but their progress for whatever reason has stopped there.

Are you Steve Gibson in disguise 

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Are you Steve Gibson in disguise 

An academy is all good when you’re a Premier League side and you can afford it, all the while sending the best talent out to the Championship for experience.

You’re also protected against fellow PL sides stealing your best players.

But in the Championship and below I just don’t see how it’s financially worth it.

Put it this way, if we were in the PL and had Knight, Bird, Sibley and Buchanan come through and we loaned them out to stable Championship clubs, they’d arguably progress more while having a far higher value.

Unless you get lucky with a Jude Bellingham (signed to a pro contract) every few years, an academy is just a financial burden. You can get better value for money just using the academy expense to sign players to develop for the first team.

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

An academy is all good when you’re a Premier League side and you can afford it, all the while sending the best talent out to the Championship for experience.

You’re also protected against fellow PL sides stealing your best players.

But in the Championship and below I just don’t see how it’s financially worth it.

Put it this way, if we were in the PL and had Knight, Bird, Sibley and Buchanan come through and we loaned them out to stable Championship clubs, they’d arguably progress more while having a far higher value.

Unless you get lucky with a Jude Bellingham (signed to a pro contract) every few years, an academy is just a financial burden. You can get better value for money just using the academy expense to sign players to develop for the first team.

 

[sage]

3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

An academy is all good when you’re a Premier League side and you can afford it, all the while sending the best talent out to the Championship for experience.

You’re also protected against fellow PL sides stealing your best players.

But in the Championship and below I just don’t see how it’s financially worth it.

Put it this way, if we were in the PL and had Knight, Bird, Sibley and Buchanan come through and we loaned them out to stable Championship clubs, they’d arguably progress more while having a far higher value.

Unless you get lucky with a Jude Bellingham (signed to a pro contract) every few years, an academy is just a financial burden. You can get better value for money just using the academy expense to sign players to develop for the first team.

I've always wondered how much we would save if we did this. How much of the 'academy cost' is a training ground cost that we would still need?

Are you suggesting having no youth teams at all and just a 1st team and reserves?

[Bris Vegas]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

I've always wondered how much we would save if we did this. How much of the 'academy cost' is a training ground cost that we would still need?

Are you suggesting having no youth teams at all and just a 1st team and reserves?

I think it would depend on the costs.

But I know I’ve used Brentford as an example a lot, but they don’t have an academy for this very purpose and instead have a development team.

The development team can still have youth players of course. I’m not saying let’s not promote youth.

But in our situation, it seems over the past decade all we are doing is developing youth players for other teams and we’re the ones ultimately paying for it.

 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

13 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

An academy is all good when you’re a Premier League side and you can afford it, all the while sending the best talent out to the Championship for experience.

You’re also protected against fellow PL sides stealing your best players.

But in the Championship and below I just don’t see how it’s financially worth it.

Put it this way, if we were in the PL and had Knight, Bird, Sibley and Buchanan come through and we loaned them out to stable Championship clubs, they’d arguably progress more while having a far higher value.

Unless you get lucky with a Jude Bellingham (signed to a pro contract) every few years, an academy is just a financial burden. You can get better value for money just using the academy expense to sign players to develop for the first team.

And that’s worked wonders in the last few years hasn’t it. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think it would depend on the costs.

But I know I’ve used Brentford as an example a lot, but they don’t have an academy for this very purpose and instead have a development team.

The development team can still have youth players of course. I’m not saying let’s not promote youth.

But in our situation, it seems over the past decade all we are doing is developing youth players for other teams and we’re the ones ultimately paying for it.

 

They have a different geographical situation to us. They are surrounded by bigger clubs, have higher property/land prices and can pick up Prem teams casts off more easily.

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

I've always wondered how much we would save if we did this. How much of the 'academy cost' is a training ground cost that we would still need?

Are you suggesting having no youth teams at all and just a 1st team and reserves?

Didn't Brentford ditch their under 23's for a B team model?  It's an interesting question as to the cost/benefit of the academy as I'd imagine for a lot of clubs it might make sense for them to ditch their academies. If they are facing stiff competition for young players in their areas from more illustrious clubs it makes sense on the face of it. For instance, Brentford compete against Chelsea, Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Tottenham Hotspur etc. all in a small radius. But, Derby don't have much competition on our doorstep, there is Burton, Chesterfield, and Notts Forest but that's it really. This might be an important difference. 

[Bris Vegas]

13 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

And that’s worked wonders in the last few years hasn’t it. 

Well that’s down to dire recruitment which I’ve blasted throughout the Mel Morris tenure.

Put it another way. The entire 2013/14 team which finished third cost less (in transfer fees) than one year’s worth of academy costs.

And that 2013/14 side could have been sold for decent fees as Nigel Clough signed younger players with the idea of developing them. Players like Russell, Martin, Bryson, Keogh, Forsyth were all worth far more in the summer of 2014 compared to their initial transfer fees.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bris Vegas

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I’d be tempted to scrap it and create a B team or development team.

How much money would that save?

Where does it save money?

On the wages of a few academy coaches? On not having to have a slightly bigger training ground?

Presumably scouting costs would be the same - or even more - if we're looking for rejects from other clubs.

So where's the financial saving?

[Bris Vegas]

5 minutes ago, sage said:

They have a different geographical situation to us. They are surrounded by bigger clubs, have higher property/land prices and can pick up Prem teams casts off more easily.

While some of that is true, I certainly don’t believe Brentford were a more attractive option than Derby for PL cast offs. Besides, not all came from London, with players like Sergio Caños coming from Liverpool/Norwich. Forss was from West Brom.

[hintonsboots]

2 hours ago, Wignall12 said:

Our academy will be our saviour ......no more talk of scrapping it !

Agreed, it’s turning out some quality youngsters. Whatever you think of Mel, he invested heavily in our academy set up.

[SirBrian]

Academy is going to be the way forward with the financial problems throughout football for which our academy is the envey of many premier teams, the past few years Darren Wassell and his staff have been churning out young prospects and it will continue, for myself this is football and today another one Liam Thomson 19 years of age debut and not out of place, in fact outstanding, better than Butterfield or Johnson £8 million worth of rubbish?

This is one area Mel did get it right and i look forward seeing a Derby starting eleven from the academy, in the future.