Bris Vegas Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Just now, Chris_Martin said: Hendrick £10.5m Hughes £8m Lowe & Bogle £12m That's just over £30m which isn't far off covering it. Plus we have the value of Sibley, Knight, Williams, Buchanan, Bird, Thompson, Ebosele, Stretton. But I would prefer not to sell all those to be honest. Those figures are inflated I believe. Hughes was more like £5m while Bogle and Lowe were less than £10m. I think we did well on the Hendrick sale though. Chris_Martin and Reggie Greenwood 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: All these were before the 6 million per year, came into play . Some cost but not this monolith of vanity that was never affordable outside the top division. Bogle was at Reading and Swindon first. and? he still graduated through our academy and was sold on for good profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Those figures are inflated I believe. Hughes was more like £5m while Bogle and Lowe were less than £10m. I think we did well on the Hendrick sale though. figures were according to transfermarkt. Even if they are slightly inflated, them 3 sales have covered over half the cost though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: and? he still graduated through our academy and was sold on for good profit But that’s also the point. You don’t need an academy to sign 16 years olds (just as Bogle, Knight, Hendrick, Will Hughes) were when they joined Derby. You can just the same have a development team which signs 16 year olds and be just as better off without all the added category 1 academy costs. Category 1 only benefits the elite clubs as it allows them to sign youth players for cheaper and stockpile them. There is a reason why so many EFL clubs voted against it. Mel Morris probably only voted for it as he envisaged a quick promotion. Its not a coincidence who clubs like Brentford and Salford have thrived without one. The owners of those clubs are putting their money to better use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, hintonsboots said: Agreed, it’s turning out some quality youngsters. Whatever you think of Mel, he invested heavily in our academy set up. So has the taxman. CBRammette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) If after 6 years our academy is at break even, then it’s not a very good investment on the £30m+ outlay. In the same way if you invested money in property, a business or the S&P500, if you are only at break even after 6 years considering inflation costs then it’s actually poor. But we’re not at break even with the academy. We’re in the red with it. Edited November 21, 2021 by Bris Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: I can’t see the justification of spending £5m a year on the academy to produce only one or two max Championship standard players per season. That money could be spent far better signing players to develop. Who develops them and where do they play? Isn't that what the Academy is doing now? Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Who develops them and where do they play? Isn't that what the Academy is doing now? I guess the difference is in an academy you bring players through from a very early age and hopefully they make the grade. I guess a development squad is that you target those who have been rejected from bigger clubs, abroad etc. at a relatively young age and develop them through a 'B team'. The emphasis shifts on trying to develop homegrown talent from the very early stages to developing what you consider to be undervalued players to reach their potential. Bris Vegas and Jimbo Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: And Forest don’t spend anywhere near as much as we do on the running of their academy. Sort of proves the point. We could just easily have a development squad and buy youth players for them. Lets not forget that Ebosele and Jason Knight joined as 16-17 years olds. Louie Watson joined last year. You can still have a development squad with those of that age joining. Forests academy is now Category one, so their running costs will be in line with ours. Running costs of a Cat 1 academy start from around £5m a year, £1m of which is grant funded from the FA purely for having a Cat 1 academy. Running any sort of set up below Cat 1 would still cost a few million per annum, so the cost saving isn't anything like you wish to portray. r_wilcockson and RoyMac5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: And Forest don’t spend anywhere near as much as we do on the running of their academy. Sort of proves the point. We could just easily have a development squad and buy youth players for them. Lets not forget that Ebosele and Jason Knight joined as 16-17 years olds. Louie Watson joined last year. You can still have a development squad with those of that age joining. Theyve invested pretty heavily in it dougherty spent millions getting it up from what it was .. and aquiring the land in very pricey wilford GB SPORTS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Rev said: Forests academy is now Category one, so their running costs will be in line with ours. Running costs of a Cat 1 academy start from around £5m a year, £1m of which is grant funded from the FA purely for having a Cat 1 academy. Running any sort of set up below Cat 1 would still cost a few million per annum, so the cost saving isn't anything like you wish to portray. Depends how much u can flog ur talents for even with the outlay weve had forest have marketed their priduce far better than we have and if they had our expenses would still be well in profit from it They made more than 30m on just 3 players nearly 40 if u include that apphiah lad thats nearly 10 years funding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: Depends how much u can flog ur talents for even with the outlay weve had forest have marketed their priduce far better than we have and if they had our expenses would still be well in profit from it They made more than 30m on just 3 players nearly 40 if u include that apphiah lad thats nearly 10 years funding They've done well, I'll give them that. A lucky streak, if you like. Only Cash has kicked on and proved a worthwhile investment though, and buying clubs will notice that trend too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I have always argued against those touting Wassall as a potential DCFC manager. The basis of my argument; DW has, for a significant period of time, been one of the clubs best assets and done a really decent job of running the academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, Rev said: They've done well, I'll give them that. A lucky streak, if you like. Only Cash has kicked on and proved a worthwhile investment though, and buying clubs will notice that trend too. Oh i agree totally, but thats not their problem is it but hear what ur saying totally and agree but i wager this brenan johnson will go for double figures .. and worral at the age he is despite what i think of him probably would command 4-5m of some wallys cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Rev said: They've done well, I'll give them that. A lucky streak, if you like. Only Cash has kicked on and proved a worthwhile investment though, and buying clubs will notice that trend too. Also .. how far back is a lucky streak jenas , dawson , reid wes morgan (forgot him) lascelles darlow osbourn, cash brereton , burke, Thats some time frame Theres a title winner, 2 england internationals, a rep ireland, chilie international (yes i know madness) More than one has made it Edited November 21, 2021 by NottsRam77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said: Take a bow son. 50% of the starting 10 outfield players today from the academy. Somebody said earlier this week that we should scrap the academy - I’m not so sure. My mates lad plays in the academy and said to me recently how well all the staff have handled the situation and it’s as if nothing has happened since we went into administration. That only comes from great leadership. Mels vision coming to fruition.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Chris_Martin said: and? he still graduated through our academy and was sold on for good profit He actually cost 125k and 25% sell on though. We lose our best youngsters for a flat fee with no sell on. Whilst that's the case an academy is pointless. If you get 1.2 million up front, plus a portion of loan fees back to the championship and a mandatory 25% sell on from profit, It might be worth it. In the meantime If a players good enough, playing on the dog poo at Markeaton park, with the same coaches, has the same outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: If after 6 years our academy is at break even, then it’s not a very good investment on the £30m+ outlay. Don't talk rubbish. "Break even" + Ebosele, McDonald, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Thompson, Stretton, etc is not actually break even is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Carnero said: Don't talk rubbish. "Break even" + Ebosele, McDonald, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Thompson, Stretton, etc is not actually break even is it ? But we’re not at break even. And the following players you just mentioned are a mixture of average Championship players and below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: But we’re not at break even. And the following players you just mentioned are a mixture of average Championship players and below. "If after 6 years our academy is at break even" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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