RamsTrust

[WestLondonRam]

2 minutes ago, enachops said:

Is it realistic to expect them to be a board member? Also, is that there objective? I’m not sure it is. I, and others were in agreement that RamsTrust should move on quickly in regards to discussing being a board member so the administration process moved on more swiftly. They can’t win with some fans. 

Well the website says so: 

The Trust works with its members, Derby County executives and Board and other Derby County supporter groups to help strengthen the club’s ties with the community and build the club into a world class sporting institution.

 

[hintonsboots]

I don’t think you can knock the Ramstrust, I presume all the people running it are doing it on a voluntary basis and have the welfare of our football club as the number one priority.

A question for @RamsfanJim.

Will the trust be prioritising immediate engagement with the new owners with the aim of getting a fans representative involved at board level ?

[angieram]

22 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Hi Jim, I find it hard to be constructive regarding the Rams Trust, as simply it feels like a secret society. I don’t know what RT does, I don’t know RT’s objectives/purposes (if any) . It’s fair to say that over the internet period, I’ve been all over all forums, message boards and groups, but still know nothing about Ramstrust. 
 

However, I did feel slightly narked at RT speaking on behalf of 50000 ppl who know nothing about Ramstrust. I don’t know who appointed Ramstrust as the only legitimate supporters trust, and the only one I recognise is Punjabi Rams. 
 

Perhaps you should think on that. 

Rams Trust objectives: 

Our objectives are to benefit the community by:

 

-      Being a democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the club and strengthening the bonds between the club and the communities which it serves;

-      Achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the club;

-      Promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the club and engaging with the club to do the same;

-      Operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility, and encouraging the club to do the same

-      Being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality, or religious or moral belief. 

Their website is here - https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/

I think it is in need of a revamp, and believe there is a subgroup working on this. All the latest communications are on there, though.

[BaaLocks]

43 minutes ago, WestLondonRam said:

sorry I disagree. 

As Unlucky Alf says where have RT been for 5/6 years? We didn't ask them to field questions but maybe point us in the correct direction instead of saying anyone can Join Ramstrust. I don't expect anyone to speak for me and I am more than capable of putting my point across if need be but where? 

I don't think anyone can say they haven't represented it's Members it just doesn't represent the supporters as a whole from what I saw. Perhaps taking a member from all fan groups, I.e. Here, 1884, protest group, stands representative will help to reach the wider audience and represent more fans as a whole. 

To be fair to Jim in roads look to be already taking shape by having our Mods on there. The other thing I would like to see is a Live stream or written stream of notes from the meetings, If that already happens can you point out where we can find them? 

We have a case of Schrodinger's Supporters Trust - they are simultaneously silent but also speaking people's behalf at the same time. 

On this point of them speaking on your behalf, can you or any others show me when they have actually done this? When they have claimed to be the voice of all Derby County fans - including those that are not RT members? Do you have that somewhere because it really might help others understand the need for you to clear your chest so.

But glad to see you have found a solution to getting access to the minutes of the group, and it seems that all you have to do is find two hundred bright new pennies and join the group. Who'd 'ave thunk? 

[RamsfanJim]

Hmm - I was afraid of this. I have been  in a meeting for the past 45 mins, and it will take a while to respond to all of these (especially as I am out this evening). All valid points (apart from 1..) and I will try to respond, but give me a bit of time.

By all means DM me on here - or if you email RamsTrust@RamsTrust.org.uk then it will reach me.

Cheers,

Jim.

[Ellafella]

26 minutes ago, WestLondonRam said:

Ella he's not a doctor mate ?

So why did he ask me to say “arrrrrgggghhh”? ?‍♂️

[OoooMarkWright]

9 minutes ago, WestLondonRam said:

Well the website says so: 

The Trust works with its members, Derby County executives and Board and other Derby County supporter groups to help strengthen the club’s ties with the community and build the club into a world class sporting institution.

 

Yeah - works with them. They do this by attending meetings etc. It doesn’t mean they’re objective is to be a member of the board. 

[WestLondonRam]

3 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

We have a case of Schrodinger's Supporters Trust - they are simultaneously silent but also speaking people's behalf at the same time. 

On this point of them speaking on your behalf, can you or any others show me when they have actually done this? When they have claimed to be the voice of all Derby County fans - including those that are not RT members? Do you have that somewhere because it really might help others understand the need for you to clear your chest so.

But glad to see you have found a solution to getting access to the minutes of the group, and it seems that all you have to do is find two hundred bright new pennies and join the group. Who'd 'ave thunk? 

This is a forum, that means if you have an opinion it is open on a forum. 

Hence why I am on here and decided to voice it. So as I made that statement (which I am entitled too) which is my thinking at this time and the question by Jim was on the forum, so was answered. So hence me clearing or Airing my thoughts on an open forum. 

Angie pointed me in the right direction and I have parted with my 200 bright new pennies... so thank you for your concern. From now on I will be able to read the minutes. 

You have a lovely day.

[G_Kinkladze]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Rams Trust objectives: 

Our objectives are to benefit the community by:

 

-      Being a democratic and representative voice of the supporters of the club and strengthening the bonds between the club and the communities which it serves;

-      Achieving the greatest possible supporter and community influence in the running and ownership of the club;

-      Promoting responsible and constructive community engagement by present and future members of the communities served by the club and engaging with the club to do the same;

-      Operating democratically, fairly, sustainably, transparently and with financial responsibility, and encouraging the club to do the same

-      Being a positive, inclusive and representative organisation, open and accessible to all supporters of the club regardless of their age, income, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexuality, or religious or moral belief. 

Their website is here - https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/

I think it is in need of a revamp, and believe there is a subgroup working on this. All the latest communications are on there, though.

Hi Angie/Jim,

The issue you will have, amongst the wider DCFC community, is with the objective highlighted in bold.

Myself, I am ambivalent towards RT, I certainly don't share some of the negative views held by some about the Trust.

However, how can it claim to be democratic? Are the Board elected by other Board Members, or paid trust members? It certainly isn't done by DCFC's wider community, and therein lies the issue about representation. 

Ultimately, people will always resent being represented by those whom aren't elected (not least by that individual). Sadly, for RT to be an accountable, trustworthy and widely supported Trust it needs to be far more transparent and engaging with fans beyond the RT sphere.

So, on a positive; welcome. If this is the beginning of RT reaching out to the wider community then it is absolutely welcomed and arguably should have come some time before now and I wish you success in the venture.

[angieram]

1 minute ago, G_Kinkladze said:

Hi Angie/Jim,

The issue you will have, amongst the wider DCFC community, is with the objective highlighted in bold.

Myself, I am ambivalent towards RT, I certainly don't share some of the negative views held by some about the Trust.

However, how can it claim to be democratic? Are the Board elected by other Board Members, or paid trust members? It certainly isn't done by DCFC's wider community, and therein lies the issue about representation. 

Ultimately, people will always resent being represented by those whom aren't elected (not least by that individual). Sadly, for RT to be an accountable, trustworthy and widely supported Trust it needs to be far more transparent and engaging with fans beyond the RT sphere.

So, on a positive; welcome. If this is the beginning of RT reaching out to the wider community then it is absolutely welcomed and arguably should have come some time before now and I wish you success in the venture.

The Board is elected by Rams Trust members. Anyone who supports the aims and objectives of Rams Trust can become a member. There is an AGM where elections take place.

This is fairly standard procedure for a society. Members of the public don't get to elect Board members for any society, charity, company. Their members, shareholders do.

[Ram-Alf]

17 minutes ago, RamsfanJim said:

Hmm - I was afraid of this. I have been  in a meeting for the past 45 mins, and it will take a while to respond to all of these (especially as I am out this evening). All valid points (apart from 1..) and I will try to respond, but give me a bit of time.

By all means DM me on here - or if you email RamsTrust@RamsTrust.org.uk then it will reach me.

Cheers,

Jim.

Afraid of what Jim, Being asked inquisitive questions?, Surely if you post on a message board you must have thought there COULD be some questions that might make you "afraid"

I wonder what "apart from 1.." is?

[G_Kinkladze]

13 minutes ago, angieram said:

The Board is elected by Rams Trust members. Anyone who supports the aims and objectives of Rams Trust can become a member. There is an AGM where elections take place.

This is fairly standard procedure for a society. Members of the public don't get to elect Board members for any society, charity, company. Their members, shareholders do.

Then, in which case, it's first objective is worded incorrectly.

It is a democratic and representative voice of its paid Trust Members, not 'supporters of the club'.

Too generic a term to be applied,  I'm afraid, and should be revised.

I'm not saying that any of RT's actions have been incorrect and, generally, is likely to be in keeping with the majority of fans views, but it's just wrong to claim to be a democratic voice for all DCFC fans when it isn't elected by those whom it claims to represent.

[Simmo’s left foot]

I've recently joined Ramstrust, a very quick and simple process for £2. Suprisingly cheap. I'd suggest everybody should be joining, making their opinion heard. If Ramstrust had 20,000 members then they would be getting a lot more attention from the powers that be!

 

[Ellafella]

54 minutes ago, angieram said:

The Board is elected by Rams Trust members. Anyone who supports the aims and objectives of Rams Trust can become a member. There is an AGM where elections take place.

This is fairly standard procedure for a society. Members of the public don't get to elect Board members for any society, charity, company. Their members, shareholders do.

Is there a secret handshake? ?

[angieram]

27 minutes ago, G_Kinkladze said:

Then, in which case, it's first objective is worded incorrectly.

It is a democratic and representative voice of its paid Trust Members, not 'supporters of the club'.

Too generic a term to be applied,  I'm afraid, and should be revised.

I'm not saying that any of RT's actions have been incorrect and, generally, is likely to be in keeping with the majority of fans views, but it's just wrong to claim to be a democratic voice for all DCFC fans when it isn't elected by those whom it claims to represent.

I don't actually agree with this, having worked for charities my whole career.

Many societies are set up to speak on behalf of a wider community than their actual membership, from political parties down.

The whole point of a democratic vehicle is to allow access to as many members as want to be involved, that way the organisation acheives as much democracy as it can. As it grows it can then do more to reach out to wider and wider groups of people. 

I think Punjabi Rams have a structure and elections, I know the local supporters clubs do. I suspect most of the other "representative" groups don't, I know for example that this was a role thrust upon our Forum that @David felt very uncomfortable with. And as for the democracy of letting a man with a flag "represent" supporters! Sure Nick didn't ask for that, either.

I cannot for the life of me understand why supporters want to pour scorn over the one organisation whose very existence is set up to be the very thing that they all want - a voice in how the club is run.

I'm with @Simmo’s left foot, if more of us had got off our backsides earlier, then we might have been a force to be reckoned with when we were needed. But we aren't  - yet.

 I  have joined because I want to change that. What are you doing about it?

[JoetheRam]

1 hour ago, Rammeister said:

Disappointed.

I thought the ‘RamsTrust’ headline meant we were now on the 30th day and you were going to reveal, that you’d all managed to cobble together £50 million or so and were putting an offer in for the club on behalf of us fans.

What have you all been doing these past few weeks, if not that?

This.

1 hour ago, Yani P said:

I think the biggest issue with RT is it seems to have been around forever but has achieved what exactly? Certainly not its objective of getting a seat at the table that's for sure..look at some of the names on their 'Board'..they are the same names that have been there since Day 1 superglued to their seats..

As soon as they had the option to explore potential fan ownership they swiftly put out a statement to say they couldn't do it..did they consult Derby fans? Did they reach out to potential investors? 

It just feels that they have zero ambition apart from  wanting to be the official Trust..

And this.

Should be the sole aim of any Supporters Trust, otherwise I fail to see the point. If you don't have any financial stake in the club, you will never have a seat at the table worth owt.

But also by the same token, anyone can get involved and shape what the Trust does, so you can't really complain when RamsTrust acts in a way that you don't agree with.

Basically, moaners gonna moan (me included), so carry on as you are.

But when communicating with the club/wider fan base e.g. the Mel Morris letter, I'd just advise to make it clear that it's on behalf of RamsTrust and it's members only and never on behalf of all fans - it's alienating and doesn't help attract new members.

 

[tinman]

47 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

I've recently joined Ramstrust, a very quick and simple process for £2. Suprisingly cheap. I'd suggest everybody should be joining, making their opinion heard. If Ramstrust had 20,000 members then they would be getting a lot more attention from the powers that be!

 

just don't be critical of the way they are. They don't like it from within

Edited October 28, 2021 by tinman

[Yani P]

Jim asked in the opening post for views on the Trust and things they might do better..plenty of views expressed so far I guess..

I would like to ask Jim how long has he been Chair and Elaine Dean Vice-Chair?

Would it be a good idea to limit the number of times Board members can stay in situ? Say 2 or 3 years maybe?

That would be more democratic and would ensure fresh ideas would always be flowing through the Trust.

Second one, as its pretty impossible to get all fan groups into one organisation do you have regular official meetings with other Derby fan groups to agree on ways you can work together? (This might already be in place but not aware hence the question).

[G_Kinkladze]

40 minutes ago, angieram said:

I don't actually agree with this, having worked for charities my whole career.

Many societies are set up to speak on behalf of a wider community than their actual membership, from political parties down.

The whole point of a democratic vehicle is to allow access to as many members as want to be involved, that way the organisation acheives as much democracy as it can. As it grows it can then do more to reach out to wider and wider groups of people. 

I think Punjabi Rams have a structure and elections, I know the local supporters clubs do. I suspect most of the other "representative" groups don't, I know for example that this was a role thrust upon our Forum that @David felt very uncomfortable with. And as for the democracy of letting a man with a flag "represent" supporters! Sure Nick didn't ask for that, either.

I cannot for the life of me understand why supporters want to pour scorn over the one organisation whose very existence is set up to be the very thing that they all want - a voice in how the club is run.

I'm with @Simmo’s left foot, if more of us had got off our backsides earlier, then we might have been a force to be reckoned with when we were needed. But we aren't  - yet.

 I  have joined because I want to change that. What are you doing about it?

For what it's worth I'm not pouring scorn and I applaud anyone, irregardless of their associations, for supporting the Club at any point in time, not just this.

The transparency from Jim and yourself, and I hope this isn't a flash in the pan, is really encouraging. It isn't possible, I'd expect, for RT to be constantly canvassing the digital fanbase for comment, but actively seeking engagement will alleviate a lot of the animosity, I'd expect.

In answer to the query about me personally, I'm posted half a planet away so the answer to that is 'very little', sadly.

[tinman]

It needs a good clear out at the top. It’s become stale, insular and lacking proactivity. I’m glad to see that Jim has made this step to engage with people outside of ramstrust. 
to only have elections every three years is ridiculous. To have a chair and vice chair in position for so long is ridiculous. It becomes stagnant and needs fresh ideas. They need to be term limited positions.