RamsTrust

[RamsfanJim]

8 hours ago, G_Kinkladze said:

Hi Angie/Jim,

The issue you will have, amongst the wider DCFC community, is with the objective highlighted in bold.

Myself, I am ambivalent towards RT, I certainly don't share some of the negative views held by some about the Trust.

However, how can it claim to be democratic? Are the Board elected by other Board Members, or paid trust members? It certainly isn't done by DCFC's wider community, and therein lies the issue about representation. 

Ultimately, people will always resent being represented by those whom aren't elected (not least by that individual). Sadly, for RT to be an accountable, trustworthy and widely supported Trust it needs to be far more transparent and engaging with fans beyond the RT sphere.

So, on a positive; welcome. If this is the beginning of RT reaching out to the wider community then it is absolutely welcomed and arguably should have come some time before now and I wish you success in the venture.

RamsTrust Board members are elected every year by our members for a 3 year term, after which they stand down or stand again for re-election. 

We do try to engage with supporters - everyone is welcome to email the Trust to contact us via twitter or now on here (if I can keep up...) 

[RamsfanJim]

8 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Afraid of what Jim, Being asked inquisitive questions?, Surely if you post on a message board you must have thought there COULD be some questions that might make you "afraid"

I wonder what "apart from 1.." is?

Afraid of too much response to keep up with replies. I do have a full time job and other commitments as well.. 

[RamsfanJim]

7 hours ago, Yani P said:

Jim asked in the opening post for views on the Trust and things they might do better..plenty of views expressed so far I guess..

I would like to ask Jim how long has he been Chair and Elaine Dean Vice-Chair?

Would it be a good idea to limit the number of times Board members can stay in situ? Say 2 or 3 years maybe?

That would be more democratic and would ensure fresh ideas would always be flowing through the Trust.

Second one, as its pretty impossible to get all fan groups into one organisation do you have regular official meetings with other Derby fan groups to agree on ways you can work together? (This might already be in place but not aware hence the question).

I have been Chair too long, but I did stand down for a year about 3-4 years ago, then was reappointed. We have needed new board members to come forward who can take on official roles, but I believe this is now happening. I have offered to stand down every year...

We have met with other groups in club meetings and have had other discussions which led to the combined letter about 6 months ago. We do maintain ongoing contact and are looking at ways to improve this. 

[RamsfanJim]

5 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I spoke to Big John at the time, He said and I quote..."we asked them to get involved with the red card out board" they flatley refused he said, All they wanted to do was talk to them, Unfortunately they got sucked in by thievs.

Not true - I was personally involved in the protests and put a 'Board Out' banner by the Director's box at most games at the time. We also coordinated media campaigns which put pressure on the board and led to the protests. 

[RamsfanJim]

4 hours ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

Hi Jim,

What's more important, co-operative values or success for Derby County?

Success for Derby County (more important than most things in my life). 

[RamsfanJim]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

For me, I've been frustrated by the ill thought out questions posed to other parties since admin was announced.

For example, 

The answers are obvious to anyone who has paid attention to the detail in the relevant cases.

SWFC were issued with a 12 point penalty because their spending exceeded the P&S limits by £18m. Overspending by £15m or more results in a 12 point deduction (pending aggravating or mitigating circumstances). This was reduced on appeal based on the circumstances of the stadium sale.

Derby's rumoured 9 points is not purely based on the 3 year period to 2018, which Mel said was roughly a £4m overspend (4 points) according to the EFL's interpretation of FRS102. Subsequent periods would cumulatively take the total to 12 points, but reduced by 3 as a token of goodwill. Of course, this argument from the club's side as that if Derby were charged when they should have been for that period, actions could have been taken to avoid failing future periods as well. There will also be arguments over how failed periods will be adjusted for the future P&S periods too.

The EFL are in the right in being able to come to an agreement with the club, before charging the club. As you may recall, the EFL was scrutinised (particularly by the club) for charging the club in relation to the amortisation policy. The club were aware of inbincoming charge for the stadium sale, but were taken unawares by the amortisation charge.

 

There gave been a few other questions I have been critical of. There is also one question which I am amazed hasn't even been asked yet... how has the club smashed through the £81m which we supposedly should have received for the stadium, whilst failing to pay £20m to HMRC and taken out a few loans since the end of the 17/18 season... the numbers just don't seem to add up.

These were questions submitted by our members - if they felt these had not been sufficiently answered previously, they have a right to ask. 

[RamsfanJim]

2 hours ago, tinman said:

Do you not recognise that it was a very clumsily written tweet that was asking to be misinterpreted? 

 

Yes - which is why it was then deleted and explained

[RamsfanJim]

1 hour ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Personally I don't think it works for any group to represent any fans. What does it achieve? I don't really get it. I am a Derby fan amongst thousands of other Derby fans. The owners run the club and we support or criticise as is our choice. What exactly do official supporters groups achieve? 

The club and media will always listen when groups represent large numbers of fans - they would be stupid not to (even if they don't act accordingly). They can easily ignore 1 or 2 individuals. That is what we are here for. 

[IslandExile]

 

[RamsfanJim]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the forum. I have a few questions, if I may?

Can I ask why it's taken over a decade for the Trust to engage with this community? By your own admission, you have only done so today at someone else's suggestion!  Has it not occurred to you that blithely stating as much suggests you were either a) unaware of this community's existence, or b) never previously saw any value in any form of engagement?

My final question is, why now? What is to be gained now that was not meaningful before?

Thanks,

86

 

I have been on forums before including this one, but do not physically have time to keep up with all of them (as shown here). Each forum by its nature has a limited number of members, whereas twitter and Facebook (and our website) are public and widely used. 

I joined now because I am genuinely surprised that we have had criticism at a time most supporters are pulling together to help in any way we can to save the club. I want to understand why. 

[uttoxram75]

Its an impossible task to speak for fellow fans.

The minibus I attend games on has 15 ST holders on and we have factions regarding the manager, players, owner etc. Our only common ground is being Derby fans and living in Utcheter.

We still argue about Chris Martin ffs!

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, RamsfanJim said:

I have been on forums before including this one, but do not physically have time to keep up with all of them (as shown here). Each forum by its nature has a limited number of members, whereas twitter and Facebook (and our website) are public and widely used. 

I joined now because I am genuinely surprised that we have had criticism at a time most supporters are pulling together to help in any way we can to save the club. I want to understand why. 

And there you have it ?

Best I recuse myself at this point, as I'm afraid the above has only served to entrench my opinions further. 

Good luck with your stated aims all the same.

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

We still argue about Chris Martin ffs!

No we don't

[uttoxram75]

5 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

No we don't

Oh yes we do!

Believe it or not, people walk amongst us who don't realise how brilliant Martin was in the best Derby team since the Jim Smith era.

I swear I'll make the driver drop them off at Etwall one match.

[tinman]

4 hours ago, RamsfanJim said:

Yes - which is why it was then deleted and explained

But no apology for it. Just an attack on those who called her out on it. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by tinman

[G_Kinkladze]

6 hours ago, RamsfanJim said:

RamsTrust Board members are elected every year by our members for a 3 year term, after which they stand down or stand again for re-election. 

We do try to engage with supporters - everyone is welcome to email the Trust to contact us via twitter or now on here (if I can keep up...) 

Jim,

Thanks for the response.

For what it's worth I do think the Trust is trying to do the right thing and I don't envy your position in truth; trying to be an encompassing voice for a wide spectrum of views from groups who aren't all in possession of quite the same level of information it would seem.

I wholeheartedly agree and support the engagement with fans across the spectrum and appreciate the time taken to come to us. 

Unfortunately I think you will always be greeted with reticence in some corners (though I won't include myself in that, my query was purely relating to the nature of the organisational intent as opposed to any of the Trusts actions) but I do hope that you will stick around and act as a sounding board for Forum Members to put forward (sensible) queries to the Club.

Perhaps @David we could pin a post from the Trust for it to be used for queries (not discussion) to keep it clean (this is a little clumsy!). Members can discuss Balotelli in another thread, give Jim a fair chance and some hospitality.

[Chester40]

As a lifelong fan who no longer lives in the city I find some of the comments on here a little picky and unnecessarily negative.

But as is often the case I find myself agreeing with @iRam and @86 Hair Islands.

I find it extraordinary that you or someone else hasn't found your way on to this forum before to recruit members in a very explicit way.

We have been through unbelievably difficult times recently and I have heard nothing from Rams Trust in the national media at all. That's not a criticism in itself, its an observation. I wasn't aware you existed. 

When Blackpool were going through difficult times their fans both contacted us on here asking for support and organised incredibly high profile protests compared to anything Rams Trust has done.  Apologies if that sounds as negative and picky as the comments made by others...but the worst thing I think I can say is that I didn't know we had a Rams Trust until it was reported on here we did.

 

[RamsfanJim]

39 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

As a lifelong fan who no longer lives in the city I find some of the comments on here a little picky and unnecessarily negative.

But as is often the case I find myself agreeing with @iRam and @86 Hair Islands.

I find it extraordinary that you or someone else hasn't found your way on to this forum before to recruit members in a very explicit way.

We have been through unbelievably difficult times recently and I have heard nothing from Rams Trust in the national media at all. That's not a criticism in itself, its an observation. I wasn't aware you existed. 

When Blackpool were going through difficult times their fans both contacted us on here asking for support and organised incredibly high profile protests compared to anything Rams Trust has done.  Apologies if that sounds as negative and picky as the comments made by others...but the worst thing I think I can say is that I didn't know we had a Rams Trust until it was reported on here we did.

 

Protest is always a very difficult decision, and perhaps why we get some criticism. Some fans would protest if we stop cash sales in the ground, some wouldn't protest even if we were being sold to a hedge fund. I know many RamsTrust members (including myself) have been involved in protests in the past (and probably will again), but if RamsTrust publicly encouraged a protest we would immediately lose any chance of ongoing contact with the club, and therefore make it impossible to achieve some of our aims. 

We have had some national media coverage recently, I have spoken to a number of journalists from national papers, but they do not always mention the Trust in articles. 

[Chester40]

6 minutes ago, RamsfanJim said:

Protest is always a very difficult decision, and perhaps why we get some criticism. Some fans would protest if we stop cash sales in the ground, some wouldn't protest even if we were being sold to a hedge fund. I know many RamsTrust members (including myself) have been involved in protests in the past (and probably will again), but if RamsTrust publicly encouraged a protest we would immediately lose any chance of ongoing contact with the club, and therefore make it impossible to achieve some of our aims. 

We have had some national media coverage recently, I have spoken to a number of journalists from national papers, but they do not always mention the Trust in articles. 

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. 

Can I ask though, in retrospect, do you think the Trust has made the correct decision in not protesting or at least  being more of a focal point for voicing concerns and safeguarding the club?

Agreed, it definitely means that you don't get the upside of media attention, but the flip side is that you have been 'able to achieve some of your aims'? What are they? As a casual observer I'm not aware of any? 

[RamsfanJim]

1 minute ago, Chester40 said:

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. 

Can I ask though, in retrospect, do you think the Trust has made the correct decision in not protesting or at least  being more of a focal point for voicing concerns and safeguarding the club?

Agreed, it definitely means that you don't get the upside of media attention, but the flip side is that you have been 'able to achieve some of your aims'? What are they? As a casual observer I'm not aware of any? 

At which point? Do you mean recently? 

Protests were never going to achieve anything when Mel Morris was trying to sell anyway - what was the point? 

Our aims are to give supporters a voice (fuller aims are above in this thread). If the club won't talk to us, those aims can't be achieved.