Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[NottsRammy]

I think everyone really knows we are gone and just want it over with . 

What everyones really frightened of is if whoever is taking over doesnt want a league 1 pub team .

But thankfully at the moment Mr Kirchner has said it doesnt matter he is here for the long term .2 seasons soon go we could all be singing a very happy tune within 2 years from now . 

WE ARE Derby  and we wont disappear .But it might take more than a season to get out of L1 its a horrible place and we shouldnt have got out last time , a very dodgy refereeing decision in the shape of a brown envelope for cool as custard Mr Christie to plonk away if you ask me . 

[I know nuffin]

We can live with league one but only if somebody buys us in that league. The business plan is key to everything. Have read that it includes a maximum wage and if so we could end up even worse off. The players at the end of their contracts will not accept a league one wage on a new contract so will be gone for nothing. Any acadamy player ready for their first contract could well leave for next to nothing as other clubs not under restrictions could easily offer better wages. Keeping the likes of Bird and Knight will be difficult if not impossible. First we need that buyer

[alexxxxx]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Agreed. As I said in an ealier post they should not be negotiating with the administrators as their ultimate goal is not what is in the best interests of the club, whereas the EFLs should be.

I think what we've learned is how the efl operates without a regulator. The efl have no incentive to ever moves things along at haste and they wish to avoid scrutiny. 

The rules can remain the same in my view but the procedure needs to be better defined, with binding time limits for negotiation , and an independent regulator needs to handle the process. The efl will then be minded to improve. 

The efl aren't there to protect fans interests, or even fairness, it's just an organisation that acts on the whims of chairman majority regardless of legal merit. 

If anyone followed macclesfields expulsion from the league... 

I'm gutted it's unlikely we'll never see a thorough dissection of the efl and derbys arguments. 

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

lets put this into context.-12 really hard not to be relegated

additional -3 defiantly relegated

additional -9 makes no difference

additional -50 makes no difference

One note here, if you over spend, do it big and I mean by 10's of millions if not more because all you will get is -9 points. I think there is even more incentive to really overspend now. if buying a £60m strike force and a £20m midfielder will probably get you to the prem go for it. it will only cost 9 points if it dosnt happen

Just to query some of your observations if you take last seasons final league table then fifteen clubs would have mathematically avoided relegation by having more points at the end of the season then the 3rd bottom club even with having 12 points removed.

If you add another 3 points onto that then the number of clubs who still would have had more points than the 3rd bottom club is still very significant - 13.

So over half of the teams in the  league last season would have had more points than the 3rd bottom club therefore avoiding relegation even with a theoretical 15 points deduction. 

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

Blimey splitting hairs G STAR or what . O.k i got them the wrong way round .To clear it up which im pretty sure everyone bar you knows what i mean is the over spending we have to accept -9 to stop an appeal and getting it lessened . The 2nd offence which is actually the admin one ( which i put wrong in my 1st post ) will either be abolished or halved .

Blimey hope that clears it up . 

All this -21 is click bait and paper selling and the efl are happy with that is it looks better for the efl when it gets announced to get a takeover done there going to give us lea way under covid and either totally abolish the admin one or halve it .Giving us half a chance when we get players in in jan . 

Its not splitting hairs at all.

The EFL seem to want to agree a point deduction despite charging us with nothing. 

Their preferred route seems to be bypassing any hearing from and independent body and right to appeal.

They are riding roughshod over their own rules basically.

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

It is in the best interests of the football club for the EFL to now be negotiating with the administrators. We do not have cash reserves. We owe much more than we own. The administration is for the benefit of the creditors not the club. If the administrators do not get a buyer in soonest the club will fold.

I think this is where your argument falls down.

The best interests of the club would be for the EFL to lay all of their charges on the table so any prospective new owner could decide whether to challenge or how this affects the purchase price.

I'm not sure how a supposed 9 point deduction, and pretty much certain relegation, over something that we have not even been charged with, helps us find a new buyer.

[Eatonram]

The EFL have the ultimate weapon and that is DELAY and they have used this consistently against us.

There is both the the sale of the Club and January window on the horizon....if we do not submit now, they simply delay and put both in jeopardy.

 

If things go beyond that and we do not submit, there is the prospect of carrying over a points deduction into next season...they simply DELAY.

 

They are simply not bothered about the right and wrongs, the fairness or the fact that they have played a part in our situation....they simply want to be seen as the WINNERS and the Club shown as the losers. So far all the hearings have shown the opposite, they look foolish, so.....they DELAY. The ultimately win by attrition.

[Oldben]

This article perfectly sums up how I feel ...

https://derbycountyblog.com/the-bigger-picture/

 

[CBRammette]

39 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Its not splitting hairs at all.

The EFL seem to want to agree a point deduction despite charging us with nothing. 

Their preferred route seems to be bypassing any hearing from and independent body and right to appeal.

They are riding roughshod over their own rules basically.

They def are cus they know we want it settled quick to get the buyer in

[Ram-Alf]

Things don't appear to be right.

Nixon...says -15 points

Percy...says -21 points

EFL...did they adjourne if so why

Admin...did they adjourne if so why

The Baron(Kieren Maguire)says we have the best legal brief going...Nick De Marco

We've already had a £100k fine

What else under FFP have we been charged with?

We've been told by Admin...they believe we have a good case regarding Covid/Admin

So if all that Percy says is right and at the mo i'm taking it with a large pinch of salt, The only conclusion I beleive is the EFL have stalled on the appeal and with it bringing DCFC to it's knees around the sale, Accept our charge or go bust.

 

[i-Ram]

49 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think this is where your argument falls down.

The best interests of the club would be for the EFL to lay all of their charges on the table so any prospective new owner could decide whether to challenge or how this affects the purchase price.

I'm not sure how a supposed 9 point deduction, and pretty much certain relegation, over something that we have not even been charged with, helps us find a new buyer.

I wouldn’t argue with you my friend; I’d never win.

For what worth this is my additional take.  It is only since Quantumna took charge that the Club’s accounts have been brought up to date - probably only in draft format, and with amortisation reworked on a straight line method consistent with the other 71 clubs in the league. I think Morris and Pearce were still fiddle arsing around in September getting their administration ducks in line and really were not interested anymore trying to dig themselves out of the huge hole they had created. Morris indicated in his interview something like ‘mumble, £4m, mumble mumble’ as our overspend if we accepted straight line amortisation, but that figure took no account of future seasons. I can’t believe we didn’t lose a significant figure after the Frank Lampard season, and probably the season after before COVID came along to take its additional toll.

I suspect the EFL has now laid the charges on the table based on those draft figures and Quantumna have considered the best option. I highly doubt another 6 months minimum disciplinary and appeal process is going to be attractive to any potential buyer, or and secured or preferred creditor. If Kirchner, or any other buyer, wants Derby come what may, then they want a quick purchase so they can plan for the next season and a half.

I am no EFL apologist, but the pelters they are getting when this all really falls at Morris’s door still continues to amaze me. He chose to put the club into Administration not to save us point deductions, but to trigger a sale. He wanted to get out, and retain the multi-millions he still has in investments, property, etc.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I wouldn’t argue with you my friend; I’d never win.

For what worth this is my additional take.  It is only since Quantumna took charge that the Club’s accounts have been brought up to date - probably only in draft format, and with amortisation reworked on a straight line method consistent with the other 71 clubs in the league. I think Morris and Pearce were still fiddle arsing around in September getting their administration ducks in line and really were not interested anymore trying to dig themselves out of the huge hole they had created. Morris indicated in his interview something like ‘mumble, £4m, mumble mumble’ as our overspend if we accepted straight line amortisation, but that figure took no account of future seasons. I can’t believe we didn’t lose a significant figure after the Frank Lampard season, and probably the season after before COVID came along to take its additional toll.

I suspect the EFL has now laid the charges on the table based on those draft figures and Quantumna have considered the best option. I highly doubt another 6 months minimum disciplinary and appeal process is going to be attractive to any potential buyer, or and secured or preferred creditor. If Kirchner, or any other buyer, wants Derby come what may, then they want a quick purchase so they can plan for the next season and a half.

I am no EFL apologist, but the pelters they are getting when this all really falls at Morris’s door still continues to amaze me. He chose to put the club into Administration not to save us point deductions, but to trigger a sale. He wanted to get out, and retain the multi-millions he still has in investments, property, etc.

I take them points on board and agree to an extent.

Do you think that the EFL have not played any part at all in our current predicament then?

Just as a reminder, the original charges were raised in January 2019, it is now November 2020.

[Ghost of Clough]

Question: If we haven't submitted the accounts, as per the EFL's embargo reporting service, how are we being penalised for having failed P&S during the periods where those accounts haven't been submitted?

[angieram]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

I take them points on board and agree to an extent.

Do you think that the EFL have not played any part at all in our current predicament then?

Just as a reminder, the original charges were raised in January 2019, it is now November 2020.

2021

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I wouldn’t argue with you my friend; I’d never win.

For what worth this is my additional take.  It is only since Quantumna took charge that the Club’s accounts have been brought up to date - probably only in draft format, and with amortisation reworked on a straight line method consistent with the other 71 clubs in the league. I think Morris and Pearce were still fiddle arsing around in September getting their administration ducks in line and really were not interested anymore trying to dig themselves out of the huge hole they had created. Morris indicated in his interview something like ‘mumble, £4m, mumble mumble’ as our overspend if we accepted straight line amortisation, but that figure took no account of future seasons. I can’t believe we didn’t lose a significant figure after the Frank Lampard season, and probably the season after before COVID came along to take its additional toll.

I suspect the EFL has now laid the charges on the table based on those draft figures and Quantumna have considered the best option. I highly doubt another 6 months minimum disciplinary and appeal process is going to be attractive to any potential buyer, or and secured or preferred creditor. If Kirchner, or any other buyer, wants Derby come what may, then they want a quick purchase so they can plan for the next season and a half.

I am no EFL apologist, but the pelters they are getting when this all really falls at Morris’s door still continues to amaze me. He chose to put the club into Administration not to save us point deductions, but to trigger a sale. He wanted to get out, and retain the multi-millions he still has in investments, property, etc.

We're all guilty of thinking to hard, Until some one at DCFC or the EFL anounce what we read last night to be true, Or deny Percys writings then headaches will continue.

If Percys Telegraph story is true, And with social media going off grid then surely DCFC should say something to admit or deny his story, In Percys artical it said...neither the EFL or Administraters will be making a comment as talks are still taking place concerning future plans...ie embargo, Funding, Transfers.

The fans continue to suffer.

[Amberram]

3 hours ago, Ellafella said:

…in ‘81.

2081?

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, NottsRammy said:

Unless its makes you go bust if it doesnt happen ? . 

Agree, depends how deep the owners pockets areIf you spend money you don’t have and you go bust, you are a right Mel Morris.

[Woodley Ram]

21 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I wouldn’t argue with you my friend; I’d never win.

For what worth this is my additional take.  It is only since Quantumna took charge that the Club’s accounts have been brought up to date - probably only in draft format, and with amortisation reworked on a straight line method consistent with the other 71 clubs in the league. I think Morris and Pearce were still fiddle arsing around in September getting their administration ducks in line and really were not interested anymore trying to dig themselves out of the huge hole they had created. Morris indicated in his interview something like ‘mumble, £4m, mumble mumble’ as our overspend if we accepted straight line amortisation, but that figure took no account of future seasons. I can’t believe we didn’t lose a significant figure after the Frank Lampard season, and probably the season after before COVID came along to take its additional toll.

I suspect the EFL has now laid the charges on the table based on those draft figures and Quantumna have considered the best option. I highly doubt another 6 months minimum disciplinary and appeal process is going to be attractive to any potential buyer, or and secured or preferred creditor. If Kirchner, or any other buyer, wants Derby come what may, then they want a quick purchase so they can plan for the next season and a half.

I am no EFL apologist, but the pelters they are getting when this all really falls at Morris’s door still continues to amaze me. He chose to put the club into Administration not to save us point deductions, but to trigger a sale. He wanted to get out, and retain the multi-millions he still has in investments, property, etc.

You are right, this is at Mels and Pearces door not the EFL. We need to wait until the FFP information is out there as nobody knows the figures. The only thing I would like to see from the EFL is consistency of punishment and I have a feeling Reading and others will get away more favourably. The example of this was SWFC and the overdue wages. 
 

people want the club to be made an example of and all I ask is that any punishment is appropriate and consistent 

[i-Ram]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I take them points on board and agree to an extent.

Do you think that the EFL have not played any part at all in our current predicament then?

Just as a reminder, the original charges were raised in January 2019, it is now November 2020.

I think the EFL appear to have treated us shabbily regarding the pace this has all moved, and I have not thought them fit for purpose for somewhile, and particularly since Harvey negotiated such a pisspoor TV deal. What we really don’t know here is how much Morris and Pearce have contributed to the delays. I suspect a lot, and certainly more than many posters on here think (many of whom bizarrely remain pro-Morris). I think the Government does need to get an independent regulator established to give the EFL, and these kind of bunfights which will be come a lot more common in years to come, proper and effective oversight, and for the fans greater transparency.

[Macintosh]

1 hour ago, Oldben said:

This article perfectly sums up how I feel ...

https://derbycountyblog.com/the-bigger-picture/

 

I can't agree on filling up the side with loan signings, unless they were try before you buy. Loans signings for a doomed side would basically be paying other teams' player's wages and their development, doing them a favour and achieving nothing for our club. Last term we brought in five players that added over one million to the wage bill, to do again ahead of playing youngsters we hope can break through would be as stupid as selling Pride Park to yourself then finding out it made no difference at all.