Louie Sibley

[Rich3478]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

Much more productive? I’m not sure I would’ve used that term. Sibley is more impactful than Bird, albeit is more inconsistent but that’s probably due in large part to his lack of consistent game time in his correct position which we can all agree has been detrimental overall to his development.

I think purely from a commercial stand point that the opportunity to add a 22 year old who has a very decent attacking record in the Championship already on a free transfers, if we have offered him reduced terms, will ensure that he is at least a championship player next season. 

When playing CM or AM, transfermrkt has his record 112 games and 46 goal contributions at all levels. Obviously that takes into account academy games too, but still begs the question with that kind of record wasn’t he afforded more time at first team level to prove he can/can’t do it. 

For me, I just want to see him succeed at this point. I feel his development has been impacted significantly by the people at the club since Cocu left because watching him during his academy days it was very apparent just how special of a player he was and he showed that when he burst on the scene. I do think given time and opportunities that he can showcase his ability but feel that what he could’ve been is one of the biggest ‘what ifs’ that I’ll carry with me as a Derby fan. 

Of course he’s more productive than bird as you mention, he plays a lot further forward. He obviously has ability but do you agree he struggles to get involved in games at times?

the other issue I think is that when has a poor game is almost impossible to leave on as is like playing with ten.

i like him as a player, he gets shots off and has quality on the ball. But he’s not quick, not particularly strong either. Maybe this wasn’t highlighted as much in academy football but feel there is a large enough body of work from mens football to use that as the sample now.

[Returning ram]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

Much more productive? I’m not sure I would’ve used that term. Sibley is more impactful than Bird, albeit is more inconsistent but that’s probably due in large part to his lack of consistent game time in his correct position which we can all agree has been detrimental overall to his development.

I think purely from a commercial stand point that the opportunity to add a 22 year old who has a very decent attacking record in the Championship already on a free transfers, if we have offered him reduced terms, will ensure that he is at least a championship player next season. 

When playing CM or AM, transfermrkt has his record 112 games and 46 goal contributions at all levels. Obviously that takes into account academy games too, but still begs the question with that kind of record wasn’t he afforded more time at first team level to prove he can/can’t do it. 

For me, I just want to see him succeed at this point. I feel his development has been impacted significantly by the people at the club since Cocu left because watching him during his academy days it was very apparent just how special of a player he was and he showed that when he burst on the scene. I do think given time and opportunities that he can showcase his ability but feel that what he could’ve been is one of the biggest ‘what ifs’ that I’ll carry with me as a Derby fan. 

If only football was played by stats, you'd be right. However whenever watching the game, it's clear to see, when playing in his preferred position, he goes missing for large parts of the game. Bird is involved a lot more and can play all 3 positions in midfield.

I remember when Mount first came to us, one poster had him as our 3rd best midfielder, behind Bradley Johnson, it may have been missed by some, but you can tell when a player has that something special wherever they play on the pitch. Even at grassroots, it only takes a few games to know, Sibley has had over 100 games and is not consistent enough, otherwise he'd have gone by now, someone would have taken the plunge.

But we shall see, in a couple of months, if he has the potential some believe, there will be a host of clubs knocking on his agents door, he is still young and someone when first bursting on the scene I would have put money on making it to a very high level. 

[Reggie Greenwood]

13 hours ago, dajstrawb said:

Has Witcoop ever actually got anything right?

Slightly more than Oldben 

[jono]

13 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I could be totally wrong, but isn't it the case that if he's on £X and we offer him less than £X, he leaves on a free? While if we offer at least £X, then we collect a transfer fee? 

My expectation is there will end up being a bit of an auction for Louie, and he'll move to a top m Championship or low end Premier League club. As Warne won't play him where he wants to play. He won't go to League One. 

First of all I hope he stays. He’s a good player. He might go to another championship club for better pay, but in my opinion, no where, except possibly that one hat trick performance eons ago, has he shown anything to suggest he is saleable to a premier league club. 

[Premier ram]

1 hour ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Keep him. 100%.

 

Absolutely

[abertawe_ram]

This match seems a distant memory now doesn't it.

If or when Sibley finally moves on (I hope its not yet) I'll be very sad that we didn't have a bit more to show from that promising trio of Bird/Knight/Sibley

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Rich3478 said:

Of course he’s more productive than bird as you mention, he plays a lot further forward. He obviously has ability but do you agree he struggles to get involved in games at times?

the other issue I think is that when has a poor game is almost impossible to leave on as is like playing with ten.

i like him as a player, he gets shots off and has quality on the ball. But he’s not quick, not particularly strong either. Maybe this wasn’t highlighted as much in academy football but feel there is a large enough body of work from mens football to use that as the sample now.

Attacking players by their very nature struggle to get into games at times, though? It applies to almost every single attacking player in the Football League and 80% of the Premier League - essentially anyone who isn't playing at an elite level. 

My frustration was the limited amount of time Sibley was afforded to his peers. It always felt like he needed to score or assist in every game without the threat of being dropped. It created a bad environment for him to develop IMO. It happens, of course, not always the best players at academy level continue the progression through to senior football. I really do feel like with Sibs we have really dropped the ball, obviously that's my subjective opinion, but above all else I want to see him progress and settle somewhere. I don't think that's at Rotherham (personally) but it's arguably not under Warne at Derby either.

[Archied]

Hope he stays , there’s talent there but how far he can go remains to be seen , I do think it’s being underestimated how much warne could offer the lad and how much the last few seasons troubles and needs have played a part in sibs progress, let’s be fair and say that needs must have played a big part in how sibs has been played and let’s be honest , warne has brought out stuff in sibs in a different position most of us would have thought was well beyond his skill set so there’s nothing to say warne and the coaches can’t find the best in sibley and bring it out , we may well see sibs move to his preferred position?  and improve , the lad has just had a very good season ending in promotion for the club he loves in which he was a very important part of the team , don’t underestimate that

[Rich3478]

10 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Attacking players by their very nature struggle to get into games at times, though? It applies to almost every single attacking player in the Football League and 80% of the Premier League - essentially anyone who isn't playing at an elite level. 

My frustration was the limited amount of time Sibley was afforded to his peers. It always felt like he needed to score or assist in every game without the threat of being dropped. It created a bad environment for him to develop IMO. It happens, of course, not always the best players at academy level continue the progression through to senior football. I really do feel like with Sibs we have really dropped the ball, obviously that's my subjective opinion, but above all else I want to see him progress and settle somewhere. I don't think that's at Rotherham (personally) but it's arguably not under Warne at Derby either.

Yeah but the amount they drop out of games varies. Mcgoldrick for example played as a 10 for us, was always involved and even if wasn’t you got the sense that he had a goal in him. The managers job was to get us in the play offs or promoted, extra time for sibley to find form wasn’t really an option.

Too often with sibley when having a poor game he’s the obvious sub. Invariably he’d then play well off the bench, get a start and not really back it up.

Same as you, i hope he finds a spot and shows his true potential. Agree it’s probably not at derby for Warne. It’s not just Warne not picking him though. Rooney barely ever started him when we had very few options.

the full back/wing back option from Warne might turn out to be the best thing for sibley.

[NottsRammy]

I'm prob going to get shot down in flames here but if I was managing sibs , I think he should be tried as an out and out striker.  He hasn't improved because he isn't playing consistently in a position he likes . I can see him going and being a success . He needs sitting down and telling your in this position for the season then see him improve to me . 

[YouRams]

4 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

I'm prob going to get shot down in flames here but if I was managing sibs , I think he should be tried as an out and out striker.  He hasn't improved because he isn't playing consistently in a position he likes . I can see him going and being a success . He needs sitting down and telling your in this position for the season then see him improve to me . 

I'd stick him in net Sibs the cat 😺 

[Sparkle]

Goal scorers cost money in fees and wages but you have to play them in their most productive positions 

we currently don’t play with an attacking central midfielder and I don’t see that changing with Warne as the current manager but he may well play Sibley at left wing back where he has performed decently - managers don’t last half a season in the championship on average so being patient has its merits

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Goal scorers cost money in fees and wages but you have to play them in their most productive positions 

we currently don’t play with an attacking central midfielder and I don’t see that changing with Warne as the current manager but he may well play Sibley at left wing back where he has performed decently - managers don’t last half a season in the championship on average so being patient has its merits

It's a good point, but even if we're struggling I don't think Clowes will get rid of Warne. Even if we're going down, he could well say Warne's the most likely manager to bring us straight back. 

If Sibley wants to play in midfield, or as a 10, I think he has to move. 

[Gabby'sThighs]

22 hours ago, abertawe_ram said:

This match seems a distant memory now doesn't it.

If or when Sibley finally moves on (I hope its not yet) I'll be very sad that we didn't have a bit more to show from that promising trio of Bird/Knight/Sibley

That's Ryan Nyambe on the floor behind Sibs innit?

[abertawe_ram]

37 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said:

That's Ryan Nyambe on the floor behind Sibs innit?

Good spot! Looks like he was the one drawn out to try and block the shot. Good job he didn't or he would have signed for us last year with a huge hole in his chest 💣

[jimbobram]

11 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Goal scorers cost money in fees and wages but you have to play them in their most productive positions 

we currently don’t play with an attacking central midfielder and I don’t see that changing with Warne as the current manager but he may well play Sibley at left wing back where he has performed decently - managers don’t last half a season in the championship on average so being patient has its merits

Do we not ? I thought when barks was playing up till he was injured he was playing in that role. Nml also has a spell in that position too.

[Sparkle]

16 hours ago, jimbobram said:

Do we not ? I thought when barks was playing up till he was injured he was playing in that role. Nml also has a spell in that position too.

Well, maybe that was what was said at the time but actually being good at that specific role is all about opinions 

[RamInSweden]

I would keep Sibley under contract if possible. If he wants first team football then he earns it or goes on loan. A run of good games and Sibley is suddenly worth a bit of cash.

[Barney1991]

I’d love to see sibley more as an 8 in a 433 where he can pick the ball up face to goal I hate him in the ten where he has his back to goal he’s better when he runs from deep with space to go past people 

[bucktwo]

I reckon he is shaping up to be a top quality LWB , for his home town club who are the up . 

If he is insistant that he doesnt want to play there , time to move on . 

There are lots of examples of players who find that their best positions are not the ones they originally played . 

Of course all the contract negotiations may have nothing to do with the above .