EFL Verdict

[Duracell]

What really concerns me with this whole saga is the fact that with every passing moment that this dark cloud hangs over us, the chances of someone sensible buying us slashes.

Why would you touch us with a barge pole if you had your head screwed on? We're attracting controversy and bad press at every turn. And we have no players.

Already, last season, we had a Fake Sheikh and Senor TikTok stalking the club. Those sorts of characters will see our desperation, the low price of the club and the lack of consequence and will swarm in to massage their egos or have a pop at running a football club.

The Three Amigos. It can happen again.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Duracell

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Does that mean Wycombe could take our point totals and we take theirs ?

Why punish Wycombe further by giving them a zero points tally

[Sparkle]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Wages must be below a percentage of turnover in L1 and L2. They rejected a move to a fixed wage cap.

Fairly disastrous though for us and a lot of employees 

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Has anyone got the link for the John Percy article in which I don't have to subscribe to The Telegraph please?

[Amberram]

24 minutes ago, StarterForTen said:

Never mind all this talk of points deductions, retrospective relegations, vendettas and mis-management - the only burning question about the first fixture of next season is...

Will we be wearing blue shorts or not??

Pink??

[rammieib]

If we have to re-submit three years of accounts for P&S, ultimately, doesn't that mean we have to submit the following:

15/16 - P&S for the three years until this date so 13/14, 14/15 and 15/16.

16/17 - P&S for the three years until this date so 14/15, 15/16 and 16/17.

17/18 - P&S for the three years until this date so 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18.

Surely we will also need to submit 18/19 and very soon 19/20 as well?

So question for the boffins:

 

1) If we have to re-submit the three account years for P&S, do we also need to submit new accounts into Companies House for these years or can we have two different sets of accounts? One for the legal entity and one for the P&S rules?

2) If we can now submit 18/19 onwards, I assume from this point we have used the amortisation policy that the EFL want us to use and we have then changed our legal identity accounts back to this policy. I'd be interested to know how you suddenly use a different principle and make all the accounts match up - but again. I'll leave that for smarter people than me!

 

[Ghost of Clough]

19 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I thought Disciplinary appeals can only be heard by the LAP?

DC, LAP, same thing... ?

[Mucker1884]

14 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I'm a bit confused.

We've been fined £100k for having a non-compliant accounting methodology. Both the EFL and us can appeal this sanction.

We also have to restate out accounts and P&S submissions.

I thought the issue in the charge was the accounting method - if our re-stated P&S is in breech we'll get punished for that in line with precedent but because we sold PP it's not going to be that much over? Even so that is surely a subsiquent and separate issue to the now resolved accoutancy question.

 

Late to the party, as I'm only just catching up.  Only read as far as this post on page one.

 

This is how I see it too.

A £100k fine, which can be appealed by either DCFC or EFL (But NOT Wycombe... whoever said that!!)
DCFC state they will make no further comment until they have seen and digested the reasoning behind the £100k fine.  (48 hours? Yeah, Right!)
The interchangeable fixtures (Yeah, Right again!) relates to any potential appeal against the £100k fine, which in theory could... eventually... lead to a different punishment, be that a points deduction, no punishment at all, or anything in between).
Personally, I'd advise Wycombe not to hold their breath!

 

Moving on...

As the DCFC accounts (for 16/17/18) thus far are NOW deemed to be in breach of rule this, and para that, DCFC now have to resubmit those accounts in line with acceptable methods.
DCFC state our new (acceptable) accounting method now has to be met and completed by 18th August (which the EFL failed to mention in their presser).
Only once they are submitted, can any decisions on whether any P&S limits have been breached be found.
IF... repeat... IF... our accounts then go on to break P&S rules, we will no doubt receive a new and separate charge, and a whole new chapter (same but different) will need to commence.  This particular episode will play no part in league fixtures being affected for next season (21/22), and if and when that does eventually happen, I seriously doubt the outcome will affect Wycombe!

 

If our (crap) attempts at accountancy were genuine, innocent, and simply mistaken, I expect Mel to accept the £100k fine, and kick arses for making him look a bit of a prat.

If our (deceitful) attempts at accountancy were a deliberate attempt to gain an unfair advantage, with the hope of getting away with it, I expect Mel to accept the £100k fine, and breath a huge sigh of relief, that the punishment was nowhere near as bad as it could have been.

 

Of course, whether anyone at DCFC is now pooing bricks knowing... or strongly suspecting... that our resubmitted accounts (at 23:57 on 17th August 2021!) will fail P&S, is anyones guess!   

 

[CBRammette]

Strange assumed this would be trending high on twitter like when EFL won appeal against amortisation. But people far more interested in Anton being appointed Strictly judge. Think everyone else fed up of it also

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, rammieib said:

If we have to re-submit three years of accounts for P&S, ultimately, doesn't that mean we have to submit the following:

15/16 - P&S for the three years until this date so 13/14, 14/15 and 15/16.

16/17 - P&S for the three years until this date so 14/15, 15/16 and 16/17.

17/18 - P&S for the three years until this date so 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18.

Surely we will also need to submit 18/19 and very soon 19/20 as well?

So question for the boffins:

 

1) If we have to re-submit the three account years for P&S, do we also need to submit new accounts into Companies House for these years or can we have two different sets of accounts? One for the legal entity and one for the P&S rules?

2) If we can now submit 18/19 onwards, I assume from this point we have used the amortisation policy that the EFL want us to use and we have then changed our legal identity accounts back to this policy. I'd be interested to know how you suddenly use a different principle and make all the accounts match up - but again. I'll leave that for smarter people than me!

Yes. The club now need to submit revised accounts for 15/16, 16/17 and 17/18 by 18 August.
18/19 should have been submitted by 30 June 2020.
19/20 has until 30 June 2021.

Other than that it's a bit of guesswork. It depends what they mean by "revised accounts" - the actual accounts or P&S submissions. Both are separate documents already, although the accounts do form part of the review process.

18/19 and 19/20 will likely remain overdue and not be released until after the previous 3 years are out of the way.

Either all accounts will be adjusted and resubmitted, or there will be a "restated amounts" line to make up the difference.

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, CBRammette said:

Strange assumed this would be trending high on twitter like when EFL won appeal against amortisation. But people far more interested in Anton being appointed Strictly judge. Think everyone else fed up of it also

A poor mans Len Goodman lol

[DCFC1388]

If the EFL appeal who then decides the punishment? The DC who gave us the 100k fine or someone else? I cant see the DC going back on a 100k fine to a retrospective points deduction.

Seems to me the EFL should just accept this fine as a win, both us & Wycombe know where we stand for next season then the EFL can look into our revised accounts to see if any punishment is required if we fail the p&s.

Hopefully they know how far down the line we are with a potential new owner and want to draw a line under it all and get a new owner in and get rid of Mel.

If they do appeal the 100k fine its just plain pathetic and spiteful. They might not even win the appeal as well and if they did there is no way Derby would accept a retrospective points deduction so this could drag on into next year.

With regards the interchangeable fixtures, I think these would have been done way before last nights statement knowing that either they or us could potentially appeal the decision.

[RoyMac5]

26 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Has anyone got the link for the John Percy article in which I don't have to subscribe to The Telegraph please?

Here's a bit of it (Yahoo don't seem to have this piece):

Derby vs EFL: Bitter feud escalates as County insist they cannot be relegated retrospectively (telegraph.co.uk)

...A number of other Championship clubs are furious with the punishment, claiming it is not severe enough, and the EFL is prepared to appeal as it pushes for a points deduction which would relegate Derby to League One.

Due to the uncertainty, the EFL took the remarkable step of publishing an “interchangeable” fixture list on Thursday morning for Derby and Wycombe, who were relegated on the final day of last season.

Derby have claimed it would be “unlawful” to relegate them weeks after the season finished, and another drawn out legal battle means it is highly unlikely that any points deduction will be imposed for the 2020/21 season.

However, Derby could face future sanctions after being ordered to refile their revised accounts by August 18, for the financial years running from June 2016 to 2018.

If Derby are found guilty to have broken the Profitability & Sustainability rules, further punishment could follow which may include a points deduction. 

It is also understood that Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are facing an EFL investigation over the failure to pay their players last season...

Bit in bold is new kick at us?

Edited June 24, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Brammie Steve]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

DC, LAP, same thing... ?

I hate acronyms.

What is this meant to mean.

Derby County....Losing Any Points?

EFL....Everyday Football Loses.

 

The season starts then a fortnight later we swap places with Wycombe?

I leave it to others to come up with other acronyms.

KICK!   (Keep it clean kids!)

Edited June 24, 2021 by Brammie Steve

[DCFC1388]

I would hope the club anticipated having to re-do their accounts a long time ago so will have already done this for at least 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.

Didnt it say in the previous decision we have submitted draft copies of our 19 & 20 accounts

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Here's a bit of it (Yahoo don't seem to have this piece):

Derby vs EFL: Bitter feud escalates as County insist they cannot be relegated retrospectively (telegraph.co.uk)

...A number of other Championship clubs are furious with the punishment, claiming it is not severe enough, and the EFL is prepared to appeal as it pushes for a points deduction which would relegate Derby to League One.

Due to the uncertainty, the EFL took the remarkable step of publishing an “interchangeable” fixture list on Thursday morning for Derby and Wycombe, who were relegated on the final day of last season.

Derby have claimed it would be “unlawful” to relegate them weeks after the season finished, and another drawn out legal battle means it is highly unlikely that any points deduction will be imposed for the 2020/21 season.

However, Derby could face future sanctions after being ordered to refile their revised accounts by August 18, for the financial years running from June 2016 to 2018.

If Derby are found guilty to have broken the Profitability & Sustainability rules, further punishment could follow which may include a points deduction. 

It is also understood that Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are facing an EFL investigation over the failure to pay their players last season...

Bit in bold is new kick at us?

Assuming that they have now been paid up and it's cashflow difficulties due to covidtimes, I don't think anything will come out of that beyond a reminder of the obligations to employees. There's certainly mitigation in our case due to the takeover situation - essentially wages were unpaid due to fake shake not sending the money he said he would.

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

I would hope the club anticipated having to re-do their accounts a long time ago so will have already done this for at least 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020.

Didnt it say in the previous decision we have submitted draft copies of our 19 & 20 accounts

I agree, I’m pretty sure they would of known this coming some time ago and get their books in order. They defo shouldn’t wait until 17th Aug, get them submitted and get this over and done with one way or another

[RadioactiveWaste]

 

[Rammy03]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The EFL appeal against their successful appeal.

That just says it all. What an absolute shambles this is

[Norman]

10 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I agree, I’m pretty sure they would of known this coming some time ago and get their books in order. They defo shouldn’t wait until 17th Aug, get them submitted and get this over and done with one way or another

Aye, get the accounts in, get the embargo lifted. If they have draft accounts of the last few years, that should be enough for the EFL to acknowledge our cost-cutting etc. 

At least we can then extend some contracts that fall outside the embargo constraints and make some signings. Relatively cheap ones, of course. We need a squad capable of survival asap. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Norman