EFL Verdict

[Spanish]

24 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

If the EFL appeal who then decides the punishment? The DC who gave us the 100k fine or someone else? I cant see the DC going back on a 100k fine to a retrospective points deduction.

Seems to me the EFL should just accept this fine as a win, both us & Wycombe know where we stand for next season then the EFL can look into our revised accounts to see if any punishment is required if we fail the p&s.

Hopefully they know how far down the line we are with a potential new owner and want to draw a line under it all and get a new owner in and get rid of Mel.

If they do appeal the 100k fine its just plain pathetic and spiteful. They might not even win the appeal as well and if they did there is no way Derby would accept a retrospective points deduction so this could drag on into next year.

With regards the interchangeable fixtures, I think these would have been done way before last nights statement knowing that either they or us could potentially appeal the decision.

appeals are held by arbitration, I can't se any alternative in the rules. LAP

the EFL will be driven by the expectations of other clubs, they have vey little option

[Raich Carter]

Just a thought but filing accounts is a legal requirement for HMRC. EFL, no matter who they think they are, do not have the same powers as HMRC so I'm not sure that, legally speaking, DCFC are obliged to re-file. They could generate a new set of accounts based on the preferred practises of the EFL for the EFL but legally, they're not allowed to instruct DCFC to re-submit accounts - only the HMRC can do that. Obviously they can do under the guise of membership to the league, etc but they don't have the legal standing to demand that sort of stuff.

And it is very obviously a set-up. As soon as the new accounts are submitted, based on 'normal' amortisation, then they'll come back at us and gives us a points deduction - they have to to save face. This is gonna rumble on for ages and as has been said, it's a massive cloud over the club for both us and potential signings. This is already damaging enough so there needs to be some mediation here to get it done and dusted. 

The EFL are utterly feckless. Despite thinking they're hard and tough, they're just playing at it. If they really wanted to nip this whole thing in the bud then kick us out of the league to stop it happening again. At times, I think I'd rather than than this death by a thousand cuts.  

Edited June 24, 2021 by Raich Carter

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, Raich Carter said:

Just a thought but filing accounts is a legal requirement for HMRC. EFL, no matter who they think they are, do not have the same powers as HMRC so I'm not sure that, legally speaking, DCFC are obliged to re-file. They could generate a new set of accounts based on the preferred practises of the EFL for the EFL but legally, they're not allowed to instruct DCFC to re-submit accounts - only the HMRC can do that. Obviously they can do under the guise of membership to the league, etc but they don't have the legal standing to demand that sort of stuff.

And it is very obviously as set-up. As soon as the new accounts are submitted, based on 'normal' amortisation, then they'll come back at us. This is gonna rumble on for ages and as has been said, it's a massive cloud over the club for both us and potential signings. This is already damaging enough so there needs to be some mediation here to get it done and dusted. 

The EFL are utterly feckless. Despite thinking they're hard and tough, they're just playing at it. If they really wanted to nip this whole thing in the bud then kick us out of the league to stop it happening again. At time, I think I'd rather than than this death by a thousand cuts.  

amortisation is reported in 2 steps, a P&S summary completed early in the year which includes budgeted figs for Q4 and then audited accounts.  None of us know the exact structure but there is more than 1 company that makes up the summary so it is difficult to even guess what makes up the key figures.  The efl will demand new summaries I guess, whether that is reflected by new audited accounts is another matter

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

 

And it is very obviously a set-up. As soon as the new accounts are submitted, based on 'normal' amortisation, then they'll come back at us and gives us a points deduction - they have to to save face. This is gonna rumble on for ages and as has been said, it's a massive cloud over the club for both us and potential signings. This is already damaging enough so there needs to be some mediation here to get it done and dusted. 

 

Presumably they con only do that if the new P&S submissions are in breach of allowable losses?

[Dan_Ram]

Just a thought. If the EFL appeal and it goes back to the original arbitration panel and we get points this season and therefore relegation. Could we appeal to CAS? Or was that an EU legal hierarchy that no longer applies now we have left the EU?

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, Dan_Ram said:

Just a thought. If the EFL appeal and it goes back to the original arbitration panel and we get points this season and therefore relegation. Could we appeal to CAS? Or was that an EU legal hierarchy that no longer applies now we have left the EU?

other legal remedies are available

[RoyMac5]

When does the appeal report come out? Will the EFL have to state their reasons for wanting to appeal the decision to fine us £100k?

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

When does the appeal report come out? Will the EFL have to state their reasons for wanting to appeal the decision to fine us £100k?

The real reson is "because Gibson and Wycombe are hopping mad and we've spent the last year whispering that we're really going to get Derby county"

But you're absolutly right, the full report and reasoning will give us a good idea of if the EFL are going to have good grounds to say £100k fine isn't enough. I suspect the end result will be "you won, you get to charge them for any breach under the "correct" methodology.

[rams4ever]

It seems strange to me that the EFL can instruct a club to re-submit accounts which were audited. This suggests that the auditors didn't spot that the accounts didn't comply with accounting regulations. could we sue the auditors for negligence?

[StarterForTen]

No one seems to have asked if we can actually afford to pay the £100k fine. After all, that is more than our envisaged player recruitment budget for next season...

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

The club statement point 2 reads as below..

2 It ordered the Club submit revised accounts for those years by 18 August 2021 using a policy for the amortisation of player registrations which complies both with the requirements of FRS 102 and with the P&S Rules.

As the season begins for us at home to HTFC on Saturday 7th August, simply adhere to the request in point 2 and submit the reworked accounts on 17th August 2021. The season would then be 2 games in and the EFL cannot relegate us no matter what.

?????????

 

 

[Pearl Ram]

Don’t bank on it.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 minute ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

The club statement point 2 reads as below..

2 It ordered the Club submit revised accounts for those years by 18 August 2021 using a policy for the amortisation of player registrations which complies both with the requirements of FRS 102 and with the P&S Rules.

As the season begins for us at home to HTFC on Saturday 7th August, simply adhere to the request in point 2 and submit the reworked accounts on 17th August 2021. The season would then be 2 games in and the EFL cannot relegate us no matter what.

?????????

 

 

They could appeal the £100k fine and ask for that to become a points deduction. This is why they have formed two fixture scenarios.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

1 minute ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

They could appeal the £100k fine and ask for that to become a points deduction. This is why they have formed two fixture scenarios.

Get that, but we have until 18th August to submit. No matter how many fixture lists they come up with…. The season will have already started can’t see how their alternative fixture lists can be applied once the season has begun. 

[Kenavo]

34 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Presumably they con only do that if the new P&S submissions are in breach of allowable losses?

I would have thought that they must be in breach - why the hell would we have tempted fate by using an unusual method otherwise?

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Get that, but we have until 18th August to submit. No matter how many fixture lists they come up with…. The season will have already started can’t see how their alternative fixture lists can be applied once the season has begun. 

They can't charge us and relegate us on that charge for last season, though. It matters not when the accounts go in. 

[DCFC1388]

6 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Get that, but we have until 18th August to submit. No matter how many fixture lists they come up with…. The season will have already started can’t see how their alternative fixture lists can be applied once the season has begun. 

The relegation is nothing to do with the august date to submit accounts, its to do with if the EFL appeal the fine & we get a retrospective points deduction to last season

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Kenavo said:

I would have thought that they must be in breach - why the hell would we have tempted fate by using an unusual method otherwise?

I've thought this all along. I doubt I'm the only one as well.

If they come up roses, there's going to be a lot of boiling piss around championship boardrooms....

[Norman]

Just now, Kenavo said:

I would have thought that they must be in breach - why the hell would we have tempted fate by using an unusual method otherwise?

For future seasons, to try and keep competing. Doesnt mean we were at the limit after the stadium sale. The stadium valuation might have come back 20 percent above our estimates at the time.

[DCFC1388]

1 minute ago, Kenavo said:

I would have thought that they must be in breach - why the hell would we have tempted fate by using an unusual method otherwise?

The stadium sale was in the 2018 accounts I believe so that will be in this revised 3 year cycle as well as the 3 year cycle of when we eventually publish the 2019 & 2020 accounts