EFL Verdict

[Ambitious]

I really don't think it matters what happens. We are going to be a League One club in 2022/23 regardless. In fact, we probably have more chance of being a Championship club in 2022/23 IF we take the point deduction retrospectively and go into League One next season. 

I was already coming around to the fact that we would be scrambling around for players as it is, but this latest news is an absolute killer. We will survive on loans and freebies - mostly loans. We can only play 5 of them. Any sort of injury crisis and we are resorting to our U18s in a matchday squad. 

We should look to write off the U23 team and just promote them all to the first team for the time being. Prince Phillip is in better health than Derby County and he's been dead two months! 

[Spanish]

Just now, CBRammette said:

Yep and then would have been challenged sooner. What a complete mess all over isnt it

Well maybe.  We would be in a stronger position imo. 

Much of this was due to the PP sale, the focus of the original DC was on this and this was a relatively minor part strangely enough.  If we had documented it properly it is likely that any later action would have been dealt with differently.  I think the PP issue clouded the case and the defence.  We won one bit to the detriment of the other

[Spanish]

6 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I really don't think it matters what happens. We are going to be a League One club in 2022/23 regardless. In fact, we probably have more chance of being a Championship club in 2022/23 IF we take the point deduction retrospectively and go into League One next season. 

I was already coming around to the fact that we would be scrambling around for players as it is, but this latest news is an absolute killer. We will survive on loans and freebies - mostly loans. We can only play 5 of them. Any sort of injury crisis and we are resorting to our U18s in a matchday squad. 

We should look to write off the U23 team and just promote them all to the first team for the time being. Prince Phillip is in better health than Derby County and he's been dead two months! 

and then we have the restatement to worry about.  We could start Div 1 in 21/22 with a points penalty

[Van der MoodHoover]

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Did we have to, is that part of the EFL accounting process?

What you have to disclose is all covered within frs102 alongside the ruled/principles for each section (I think we’re all arguing about Intangible Assets). 

 

[Eddie]

39 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Who makes these decisions on behalf of the EFL?

Who actually decides whether to appeal and who to go after etc. 

 

Steve Gibson, Kenny Burns and Billy Davies

[Ghost of Clough]

Well I did say this was going to be the punishment all along...

[Ambitious]

13 minutes ago, Spanish said:

and then we have the restatement to worry about.  We could start Div 1 in 21/22 with a points penalty

Well, if the points deduction was 20/21 and we were relegated then we would start League One on zero points. You wouldn't get relegated and then get a point deduction. 

Either way, I'm really not sure what the worst situation is - a season in the Championship in which we're horribly unprepared to partake which would no doubt lead to some really quite distasteful scenes and a lot of the young lads getting hammered by the fans. Ending in almost unavoidable relegation. 

OR

A relegation to League One where we are still disgustingly unprepared but with more of a chance of some of our U23s and U18s stepping up to fill gaps. I doubt we would be in the race for promotion but we should be able to keep our League One status. I guess whether we could survive League One financially, with the debts piling up, is another question. 

Both are absolutely horrific, but that's where we are - Mel Morris has to go down in our history as one of the worst owners this club has ever had despite his good intentions. The bloody 3 Amigos didn't even put us in a mess this big! 

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Well, if the points deduction was 20/21 and we were relegated then we would start League One on zero points. You wouldn't get relegated and then get a point deduction. 

Either way, I'm really not sure what the worst situation is - a season in the Championship in which we're horribly unprepared to partake which would no doubt lead to some really quite distasteful scenes and a lot of the young lads getting hammered by the fans. Ending in almost unavoidable relegation. 

OR

A relegation to League One where we are still disgustingly unprepared but with more of a chance of some of our U23s and U18s stepping up to fill gaps. I doubt we would be in the race for promotion but we should be able to keep our League One status. I guess whether we could survive League One financially, with the debts piling up, is another question. 

Both are absolutely horrific, but that's where we are - Mel Morris has to go down in our history as one of the worst owners this club has ever had despite his good intentions. The bloody 3 Amigos didn't even put us in a mess this big! 

2 issues

the guilty charge could be points for 20/21 = relegation

breach of P&S on restated figures = points 21/22

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

5 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Well, if the points deduction was 20/21 and we were relegated then we would start League One on zero points. You wouldn't get relegated and then get a point deduction. 

Either way, I'm really not sure what the worst situation is - a season in the Championship in which we're horribly unprepared to partake which would no doubt lead to some really quite distasteful scenes and a lot of the young lads getting hammered by the fans. Ending in almost unavoidable relegation. 

OR

A relegation to League One where we are still disgustingly unprepared but with more of a chance of some of our U23s and U18s stepping up to fill gaps. I doubt we would be in the race for promotion but we should be able to keep our League One status. I guess whether we could survive League One financially, with the debts piling up, is another question. 

Both are absolutely horrific, but that's where we are - Mel Morris has to go down in our history as one of the worst owners this club has ever had despite his good intentions. The bloody 3 Amigos didn't even put us in a mess this big! 

Caught between a rock and another rock covered in ?.

[BramcoteRam84]

We will not be relegated immediately. Not going to happen, no way will a decision swing from a £100k fine to retrospective relegation. There is no precedent to support this whatever the EFL want. 
 

IMO we won’t even get a points deduction next season for this specific breach.

The key is the resubmission of the accounts. We could be penalised for that, we need to in limits for 3 year periods ending in 18 and in 19. Using 19/20 and 20/21 - half the league will be getting points deductions due to COVID impact. Our cost cutting since 2019 should also be looked upon favourably as mitigation.

[Eatonram]

1 hour ago, Spanish said:

all they had to do was properly disclose the method in the audited statements, they didn't

Fair enough and that is why the current suggested punishment fits that oversight. The EFL could Zalsohave accepted this and then looked at the revised accounts if they wanted another bite at the cherry.

[IslandExile]

41 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I really don't think it matters what happens. We are going to be a League One club in 2022/23 regardless. In fact, we probably have more chance of being a Championship club in 2022/23 IF we take the point deduction retrospectively and go into League One next season. 

I was already coming around to the fact that we would be scrambling around for players as it is, but this latest news is an absolute killer. We will survive on loans and freebies - mostly loans. We can only play 5 of them. Any sort of injury crisis and we are resorting to our U18s in a matchday squad. 

We should look to write off the U23 team and just promote them all to the first team for the time being. Prince Phillip is in better health than Derby County and he's been dead two months! 

I'm inclined to agree with you. Let's just get it done and dusted, so we can start building for the future.

That might be better accomplished in League 1 where we might win a few games. Yeah, yeah, I know the arguments - we've had threads ad infinitum about it etc - but I just want us to somehow move on from this EFL vendetta and start thinking about football again.

[GenBr]

5 hours ago, Sparkle said:

If we were in league one then it’s a totally different finance situation where we wouldn’t be allowed to sign next to no one basically due to wage caps in league one etc 

The PFA blocked wage caps in the lower leagues didnt they? Wages can still be whatever you want as far as i understand it.

[StarterForTen]

Never mind all this talk of points deductions, retrospective relegations, vendettas and mis-management - the only burning question about the first fixture of next season is...

Will we be wearing blue shorts or not??

[Sparkle]

I have just spent a while bouncing around other fans forums to view the responses and more than anything most other sets of fans haven’t got any idea what we have been found ‘guilty’ of and only use their own sound bites which mainly follow newspaper headlines from the past. 
most acknowledge that the EFL are useless but for different reasons but none of them Realise how this is actually going to impact on them in the future

[Ambitious]

14 minutes ago, Spanish said:

2 issues

the guilty charge could be points for 20/21 = relegation

breach of P&S on restated figures = points 21/22

I thought the guilty charge was the £100k fine? 

The breach of P&S on restated figures is outstanding. 

[Ghost of Clough]

For us to not be playing Championship football next season, one of two routes have to be taken.

1. The EFL appeal against their successful appeal. A new DC then determine the punishment to be inappropriate and hand out a harsher one. Given it's the timescales to get to this point, it seems unlikely that will happen in just 6 weeks.
2. The club submits 3 sets of accounts, the EFL review them, then charge us again (if it turns out we've exceeded the 3 year limit), we go to the DC, then we appeal, then we appeal the appeal... not going to happen. Especially as we have until the 18th of August (10 days into the season) to submit those accounts

On to the restated P&S accounts:
KM (10/05) - £12.5m over the limit
KM (04/06) - "within the limits"
Me - £1.7m under the limit
Mr Popodopolous - £2.5m over the limit

Take your pick on the most likely answer.

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

I thought the guilty charge was the £100k fine? 

The breach of P&S on restated figures is outstanding. 

fine is subject to appeal

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, GenBr said:

The PFA blocked wage caps in the lower leagues didnt they? Wages can still be whatever you want as far as i understand it.

Wages must be below a percentage of turnover in L1 and L2. They rejected a move to a fixed wage cap.

[Spanish]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

For us to not be playing Championship football next season, one of two routes have to be taken.

1. The EFL appeal against their successful appeal. A new DC then determine the punishment to be inappropriate and hand out a harsher one. Given it's the timescales to get to this point, it seems unlikely that will happen in just 6 weeks.
2. The club submits 3 sets of accounts, the EFL review them, then charge us again (if it turns out we've exceeded the 3 year limit), we go to the DC, then we appeal, then we appeal the appeal... not going to happen. Especially as we have until the 18th of August (10 days into the season) to submit those accounts

On to the restated P&S accounts:
KM (10/05) - £12.5m over the limit
KM (04/06) - "within the limits"
Me - £1.7m under the limit
Mr Popodopolous - £2.5m over the limit

Take your pick on the most likely answer.

I thought Disciplinary appeals can only be heard by the LAP?