EFL Verdict

[ColonelBlimp]

6 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

We’re all very wise with hindsight arnt we … the dodgy shiek only become dodgy retrospectively 

 

Seriously?  We had warnings from day one from members of other clubs.  If you chose to ignore them, that's on you.

Both were more likely chancers than not, hindsight not required.

 

[richinspain]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Which Americans is it so I can google for info on them?

[NottsRam77]

2 hours ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Seriously?  We had warnings from day one from members of other clubs.  If you chose to ignore them, that's on you.

Both were more likely chancers than not, hindsight not required.

 

Are we saying Mel did zero due diligence then?

think what u want of him and yes it’s gone sour but I think as a businessman of more years than half of us are in age I’d well imagine he saw enough to have some level of confidence that this was going to happen ?no? 

Edited July 12, 2021 by NottsRam77

[ColonelBlimp]

17 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Are we saying Mel did zero due diligence then?

think what u want of him and yes it’s gone sour but I think as a businessman of more years than half of us are in age I’d well imagine he saw enough to have some level of confidence that this was going to happen ?no? 

I'm sure Mel, younger and in full health, was a most excellent businessman, you don't get 500m being lucky do you? Do you?

People get older, they get unwell, they take their eye off the ball, they get scammed (usually old people get scammed).

Could be any number of reasons why the Mel of 2013/14 ain't the Mel of 2020/21.

FWIW, I like Mel, I think he's done everything for our club with the best of intentions, what is it the saying about that?

 

[richinspain]

7 minutes ago, ColonelBlimp said:

I'm sure Mel, younger and in full health, was a most excellent businessman, you don't get 500m being lucky do you? Do you?

People get older, they get unwell, they take their eye off the ball, they get scammed (usually old people get scammed).

Could be any number of reasons why the Mel of 2013/14 ain't the Mel of 2020/21.

FWIW, I like Mel, I think he's done everything for our club with the best of intentions, what is it the saying about that?

 

He's only 65. You make him sound like my grandad, and I'm 58.

Only joking, I imagine that his health more than his age will be a factor. I do hope that the people around him are up to it though. It would be a shame if all he tried to do for the club ultimately was overshadowed by poor decisions probably taken by others.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, ColonelBlimp said:

I'm sure Mel, younger and in full health, was a most excellent businessman, you don't get 500m being lucky do you? Do you?

People get older, they get unwell, they take their eye off the ball, they get scammed (usually old people get scammed).

Could be any number of reasons why the Mel of 2013/14 ain't the Mel of 2020/21.

FWIW, I like Mel, I think he's done everything for our club with the best of intentions, what is it the saying about that?

 

Oh I agree his intentions can’t be questioned IMO 

 

[San Fran Van Rams]

11 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

We’re all very wise with hindsight arnt we … the dodgy shiek only become dodgy retrospectively 

 

Completely disagree. There were historical examples of BZI not pulling through on similar deals. We should have made sure we had sufficient liquidity in the event that happened again. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But that wasn't hindsight, it was blind optimism.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

Completely disagree. There were historical examples of BZI not pulling through on similar deals. We should have made sure we had sufficient liquidity in the event that happened again. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But that wasn't hindsight, it was blind optimism.

Do U think Mel went into this totally blind then ? 
I highly doubt it 

[San Fran Van Rams]

5 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Do U think Mel went into this totally blind then ? 
I highly doubt it 

No - there a different between blind optimism (which resulted in Derby County not having enough liquidity to pay players' wages) and going into this blind. This is the point I'm trying to make. And looking at your other posts you are too? Not quite sure what your gripe is.

Mel and Pearce et al put far too much faith into BZI coming in and saving the day. The same then happened when Del Boy Alonso came in. I've even read recent articles that state that Mel never even met BZI. Any due diligence that was done on the prospective buyers during the process obviously wasn't good enough.

Why run a business so close to the wire on the presumption that an investor with a track history of pulling out of deals will magically come in pay your players? COVID definitely didn't help and I'm sure he was being told all the right things but the fact of the matter is, the club didn't have sufficient cash flow to pay its wages. 

[NottsRam77]

36 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

No - there a different between blind optimism (which resulted in Derby County not having enough liquidity to pay players' wages) and going into this blind. This is the point I'm trying to make. And looking at your other posts you are too? Not quite sure what your gripe is.

Mel and Pearce et al put far too much faith into BZI coming in and saving the day. The same then happened when Del Boy Alonso came in. I've even read recent articles that state that Mel never even met BZI. Any due diligence that was done on the prospective buyers during the process obviously wasn't good enough.

Why run a business so close to the wire on the presumption that an investor with a track history of pulling out of deals will magically come in pay your players? COVID definitely didn't help and I'm sure he was being told all the right things but the fact of the matter is, the club didn't have sufficient cash flow to pay its wages. 

I’m merely playing devils advocate 

[Mick Brolly]

10 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

I’m merely playing devils advocate 

This will snowball 

[Gringo]

34 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

No - there a different between blind optimism (which resulted in Derby County not having enough liquidity to pay players' wages) and going into this blind. This is the point I'm trying to make. And looking at your other posts you are too? Not quite sure what your gripe is.

Mel and Pearce et al put far too much faith into BZI coming in and saving the day. The same then happened when Del Boy Alonso came in. I've even read recent articles that state that Mel never even met BZI. Any due diligence that was done on the prospective buyers during the process obviously wasn't good enough.

Why run a business so close to the wire on the presumption that an investor with a track history of pulling out of deals will magically come in pay your players? COVID definitely didn't help and I'm sure he was being told all the right things but the fact of the matter is, the club didn't have sufficient cash flow to pay its wages. 

Businesses are normally sold on a debt free cash free basis with purchaser coming in covering overheads as soon as contracts are exchanged. They also would have to open their own bank accounts for the business which as we all know is very difficult with current money laundering regulations, it is clear a date for signing completion and exchanging contracts had been agreed and bank accounts emptied prior to that taking place. It is also clear that on the other side, the fake Sheik has a case to answer, although suing him like his own lawyers are doing, is probably throwing good money after bad. 
Regarding due diligence although in this case probably due negligence is a more apt description, would NOT have been carried out by Mel and Pearce, the selling party on a deal as complex and large as this would have definitely been outsourced to an M&A specialist of which there very many, and I have lifted their sales role from a company I have dealt with in the past when selling a business.

“Privately-held and public companies, and private equity firms around the globe count on our mergers & acquisitions (M&A) team for comprehensive financial advisory services and expert guidance. We assist buyers and sellers by providing in-depth financial and strategic analysis, identifying optimal potential transaction partners, developing creative deal structures, and negotiating complex M&A transaction terms.

Your business is unique. You don’t want an advisor who just shows up when it’s time to sell, you want an advocate. Selling companies for private business owners, corporations, and financial sponsors is our specialty. Our commitment to clients is consistent and simple: get the deal done right and deliver the highest quality outcome – both qualitatively and quantitatively.”

As you can see DCFC would not have the resources to do a full DD on the purchaser, it would take a specialist company to do it, therefore the comments about DD on here are misinformed and not accurate. 
I think when all the dust has settled Mel will have a number of lawsuits outstanding, as he has been seriously let down by his advisors.

[SamUltraRam]

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/07/efl-welcome-lifting-of-restrictions

I saw this headline & got all excited - assuming it meant our transfer embargo !!

[JfR]

17 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/07/efl-welcome-lifting-of-restrictions

I saw this headline & got all excited - assuming it meant our transfer embargo !!

The "EFL Welcome" part should have tipped you off that it wasn't. If it was it would have said "EFL Begrudgingly Accept" or words of a similar sentiment.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

On 10/07/2021 at 09:01, i-Ram said:

Anyone heard of Notts Forest - no? me neither - didn’t pay their players in March 2016, and not for the first time as I recall. Carry on.

Hold on a minute, this would be the same club clamouring for a 3 point deduction every time the sniff of a charge is given. You can't be suggesting our nearest and undearest aren't championing the rights of the other teams in the league  but are in fact making this personal.

Does that mean the whingers on OTIB who we beat at their place to remove their chance of a playoff place in 2019 are also a bunch of whinging chancers with a grudge rather than the FFP bastions of virtue they pretend to be. A pleasant bunch who desperately seem to want Swindon of all teams to go out of business.

How about the Leeds knuckle draggers who have been insisting a 3 point penalty is nowhere near enough and if was them it would be 6 ( conveniently forgetting that they finished one season and started another in admin, which totally contravened league rules and should have lead to them being chucked out the league entirely ).

There all just a bunch of nobbers with an axe to grind then . We've cracked it Watson. 

[San Fran Van Rams]

18 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Businesses are normally sold on a debt free cash free basis with purchaser coming in covering overheads as soon as contracts are exchanged. They also would have to open their own bank accounts for the business which as we all know is very difficult with current money laundering regulations, it is clear a date for signing completion and exchanging contracts had been agreed and bank accounts emptied prior to that taking place. It is also clear that on the other side, the fake Sheik has a case to answer, although suing him like his own lawyers are doing, is probably throwing good money after bad. 
Regarding due diligence although in this case probably due negligence is a more apt description, would NOT have been carried out by Mel and Pearce, the selling party on a deal as complex and large as this would have definitely been outsourced to an M&A specialist of which there very many, and I have lifted their sales role from a company I have dealt with in the past when selling a business.

“Privately-held and public companies, and private equity firms around the globe count on our mergers & acquisitions (M&A) team for comprehensive financial advisory services and expert guidance. We assist buyers and sellers by providing in-depth financial and strategic analysis, identifying optimal potential transaction partners, developing creative deal structures, and negotiating complex M&A transaction terms.

Your business is unique. You don’t want an advisor who just shows up when it’s time to sell, you want an advocate. Selling companies for private business owners, corporations, and financial sponsors is our specialty. Our commitment to clients is consistent and simple: get the deal done right and deliver the highest quality outcome – both qualitatively and quantitatively.”

As you can see DCFC would not have the resources to do a full DD on the purchaser, it would take a specialist company to do it, therefore the comments about DD on here are misinformed and not accurate. 
I think when all the dust has settled Mel will have a number of lawsuits outstanding, as he has been seriously let down by his advisors.

Regardless of whether DCFC had advisors or not (and I would hope he did), ultimate accountability for buyer DD rests on Mel's and Pearce's shoulders and no-one else. Granted the DD will be less than the buyer will be doing, but given track records I'd have hoped DCFC would have ensured they were damn near certain they were going to get the deal closed. 

You can't just absolve all at DCFC of accountability because they may have had an third party advise them. The Board, Pearce et al were and still are fully accountable and responsible for all matters at the football club. This includes remaining solvent with sufficient liquidity to pay outgoings. Don't quite understand how you can argue against that?

I'm not saying by the way that the Sheik/BZI haven't got a case to answer, but we're talking about the club having sufficient funds to pay wages. As you say, the buyer will cover overheads once a deal has closed (not signed) but the seller still has to remain solvent with sufficient liquidity before that.

Don't especially appreciate your snarky comments that my view is misinformed and not accurate either. Reading your post, you clearly don't understand how accountability works.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Accounts… When… Anyone Know Anything…

[RamsFan10]

Feel as if we must be fairly confident of the accounts submission going well if we're gathering out-of-contract players like we are. The only way we can sign them is if we pass this final hurdle. 

[Gringo]

9 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

Don't especially appreciate your snarky comments that my view is misinformed and not accurate either. Reading your post, you clearly don't understand how accountability works.

My remarks were not aimed at you and I apologise if it came across as such, my comments were aimed at the board in general whereby there is an almost total lack of understanding on the mechanics of a business sale and purchase, but posters pontificate on the subject as if they are experts.

My final comment is that club did not have enough cash for wages in their bank account but as soon as Mel knew the situation he paid them, given this was over a holiday period he may not have been initially contactable for a variety of reasons. 

[kevinhectoring]

On 12/07/2021 at 22:58, Charlotte Ram said:

Businesses are normally sold on a debt free cash free basis with purchaser coming in covering overheads as soon as contracts are exchanged. They also would have to open their own bank accounts for the business which as we all know is very difficult with current money laundering regulations, it is clear a date for signing completion and exchanging contracts had been agreed and bank accounts emptied prior to that taking place. It is also clear that on the other side, the fake Sheik has a case to answer, although suing him like his own lawyers are doing, is probably throwing good money after bad. 
Regarding due diligence although in this case probably due negligence is a more apt description, would NOT have been carried out by Mel and Pearce, the selling party on a deal as complex and large as this would have definitely been outsourced to an M&A specialist of which there very many, and I have lifted their sales role from a company I have dealt with in the past when selling a business.

“Privately-held and public companies, and private equity firms around the globe count on our mergers & acquisitions (M&A) team for comprehensive financial advisory services and expert guidance. We assist buyers and sellers by providing in-depth financial and strategic analysis, identifying optimal potential transaction partners, developing creative deal structures, and negotiating complex M&A transaction terms.

Your business is unique. You don’t want an advisor who just shows up when it’s time to sell, you want an advocate. Selling companies for private business owners, corporations, and financial sponsors is our specialty. Our commitment to clients is consistent and simple: get the deal done right and deliver the highest quality outcome – both qualitatively and quantitatively.”

As you can see DCFC would not have the resources to do a full DD on the purchaser, it would take a specialist company to do it, therefore the comments about DD on here are misinformed and not accurate. 
I think when all the dust has settled Mel will have a number of lawsuits outstanding, as he has been seriously let down by his advisors.

maybe Mel was let down by his advisers. Maybe he uses advisers who tell him what he wants to hear. 
The main problem with going with BZI was that the money was (we have been told) coming from elsewhere. That’s a train wreck in the making for a load of reasons, including that the EFl have not approved the right controller.