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roboto

By roboto
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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But almost all of the academy graduates only got their chances after an injury crisis in their position - Bird 7th choice CM, Lowe 3rd choice LB, Knight/Whittaker/Bennett as 5th-7th choice on the wing, etc...

Rowett left because he was told we wouldn't have any money to spend - Lampard cashed in on Vydra to fund his purchases.

Cocu a victim of finances - unable to retain Bogle, Lowe, Martin and Huddlestone. Plus, forced to loan out Marriott and Malone.

It was the philosophy mate 

The undercurrent for working managers to have to adhere to 

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BramcoteRam84

BramcoteRam84

Posted
Posted

Interestingly Southampton followed the same policy as us regarding academy players and they were relegated to league 1 but (assisted by a takeover) they came back to be the team they are now. Lallana, Schneiderlain (a £1m signing) were both in the team that got relegated to League 1 and stuck with them all the way back to the premier league.

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hintonsboots

hintonsboots

Posted
Posted

Shame there isn’t an academy thread.?

Getting back to the potential takeover,

Fact : No limits sports ltd have agreed terms to buy DCFC.

Fact: Due diligence has been completed and the SPA signed.

Fact : A deposit has been paid and proof of funds has been seen by Mel’s lawyers.

Fact: We are waiting on EFL approval for the takeover.

Have I missed anything ?

 

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one_chop

one_chop

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Shame there isn’t an academy thread.?

Getting back to the potential takeover,

Fact : No limits sports ltd have agreed terms to buy DCFC.

Fact: Due diligence has been completed and the SPA signed.

Fact : A deposit has been paid and proof of funds has been seen by Mel’s lawyers.

Fact: We are waiting on EFL approval for the takeover.

Have I missed anything ?

 

You've missed the bit where the EFL reject Erik's application.

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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, angieram said:

Where do the purchases of Evans, Holmes, Bielik and Jozwiak fit into this? 

I'd argue that at least two of them didn't turn out as we'd hoped, proving that it is a recruitment problem rather than an academy problem.

It’s both.   We always leave recruiting to the last minute to cut a deal.   

We often panic buy. .

End of the day we are where we are.  

Lets hope going forward things will improve 

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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Shame there isn’t an academy thread.?

Getting back to the potential takeover,

Fact : No limits sports ltd have agreed terms to buy DCFC.

Fact: Due diligence has been completed and the SPA signed.

Fact : A deposit has been paid and proof of funds has been seen by Mel’s lawyers.

Fact: We are waiting on EFL approval for the takeover.

Have I missed anything ?

 

That’s ridiculous we can discuss club strategies going forward can’t we. 

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Ghost of Clough

Ghost of Clough

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Curtains said:

It was the philosophy mate 

The undercurrent for working managers to have to adhere to 

How many senior players should we have had in each position? Up until summer 2018, at was always at least 2.

18/19
Along came Roos to be Carson's backup.
Bogle as Wisdom's backup.
Lowe was 3rd choice LB.
Bennett 5th choice winger.
Bird 9th choice CM.

Those players only got in due to injuries, and only Roos, Bogle and Bennett kept their roles in the first team due to form.

That doesn't sound like Mel forced any academy graduates into the team to me.

19/20
Roos and Bogle rightfully retained their places as starters. No other graduate is either first choice or backup.
Lowe is 3rd choice LB.
Bird 7th choice CM.
Knight 5th choice winger.
Others are even further away from the starting lineup.

Lowe ousts Malone out of the LB position due to form, later to be ousted by Forsyth once he returned from injury. Bird comes in due to an injury crisis. Knight's performances moves him up the pecking order. Limited game time. Sibley gets a run at the end of the season with little to play for, after being the best player by some distance in the U23s. 

Did Mel force injuries upon the squad to get Bird and Lowe in the team?

20/21
Roos back down to being a backup. If Bielik and Rooney were fit, they'd probably have started as backups too.
Due to finances, Lowe is sold, Malone is loaned out to save on wages, meaning Buchanan is now an unexpected choice as backup.
Sibley2nd or 3rd choice AM.
Whittaker 5th choice winger, possibly even 6th or 7th given we preferred Holmes and Knight there.

With Bielik a long term absentee we have 5 from Bird, Knight, Rooney, Shinnie and Holmes to choose from. Holmes was completely out of form, Rooney missed a couple of games due to injury, so the team picked itself. Rooney became manager, as Bielik returned from injury coinciding with Bird dropping from the team. Bielik picks up another injury meaning Bird eventually battles his way back in. 
Buchanan's performances merited becoming 1st choice.
Sibley gets a few minutes here and there.
Roos gets in when Marshall is injured, plays well, only to get dropped again.

 

Considering the club's financial restrictions, which players has Mel forced the managers to play?

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CornwallRam

CornwallRam

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

THE POINT is that the squad is weak - we both agree on that. You claim that's because Mel forces the managers to play academy graduates.

Up until Lampard joined, those academy graduates only played due to several injuries in each position. For example, Hanson had to fill in at LB even though we had Forsyth, Olsson and Warnock at the club.

Even during Lampard's season, Lowe was the 4th most used LB. Bird was used less than 8 other CMs and Bennett was out 5th most used winger (Wilson, Lawrence, Jozefzoon and Waghorn)

Cocu initially only used his 3rd choice LB because he was one of only 2 fit full backs available. Bird came into the side when he was 7th choice CM.

This season, the injury to Bielik and Rooney's unexpected role change meant we have been 2 men lighter in midfield than we had hoped resulting in more game time than perhaps we would have hoped for Bird, Knight and Sibley. Whittaker, Gordon and JML have been 5th choice at best on the wings this season (Jozwiak, Lawrence, Waghorn, Ibe, then Roberts in Jan). Kazim, Waghorn, Rooney, Gregory and Marriott have all played more at CF than Trialist, Stretton and Cresswell (combined).

 

THE PROBLEM isn't giving academy graduate game time. We've been limited in our recruitment for the past two seasons in particular due to historic recruitment. In 16/17, we used Bent, Vydra, Nugent, Martin and Wilson up top. We also used Ince, Russell, Weimann, Anya, Camara and Blackman on the wings. Can you not see why we're in this position?

We are in this position because we haven't been promoted

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CornwallRam

CornwallRam

Posted
Posted
Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

Which you seem to be blaming the youngsters for

No, I'm blaming Mel Morris's top line strategy for it. It is a constant thread which runs through which managers we've appointed, how they were told to operate, what the player recruitment strategy was and the fact that too many young players were forced through before they were ready. 

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Ghost of Clough

Ghost of Clough

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

No, I'm blaming Mel Morris's top line strategy for it. It is a constant thread which runs through which managers we've appointed, how they were told to operate, what the player recruitment strategy was and the fact that too many young players were forced through before they were ready. 

But he's supported every manager so much so that we've always had 2 players for each position (more earlier on in his reign). Academy graduates almost exclusively limited to being 3rd choice at best.
Even this season, we came into it with only Buchanan having not earned his place in a previous season. Coincidentally, this coincided with Covid (causing Mel to dig deeper into his pockets) and being extremely close to the P&S limits (cutting the squad depth and preventing further recruitment)

Mel has funded both the first team recruitment and the academy as much as has been possible without twisted any manager's arm into playing the academy lads

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Gone

Gone

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, one_chop said:

You've missed the bit where the EFL reject Erik's application.

You mean accept it but, then do us for some ancient financial rule break and put us a 5yr transfer embargo and 15 points deduction for the next 3 seasons. 

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ariotofmyown

ariotofmyown

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Mckram said:

Raja Oktohari (the supposed Indonesian backer) put on his Instagram story a few hours ago that the Derby link is a ‘hoax’.

Well I’m assuming that’s what it says as there’s a Derby badge on a news story and he’s wrote hoax. 

Nah, you have this wrong Hoax are the Indonesian branch of Vox. They are attempting to repatriate Catholics living in Bali back to their own country.

So nothing to worry about!

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derby8

derby8

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Mckram said:

Raja Oktohari (the supposed Indonesian backer) put on his Instagram story a few hours ago that the Derby link is a ‘hoax’.

Well I’m assuming that’s what it says as there’s a Derby badge on a news story and he’s wrote hoax. 

Still mentions of him around. dob 15 or 19/10/75, if the latter his first match was 22/10/75 Derby 4 Real Madrid 1 !

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Jimbo Ram

Jimbo Ram

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

Shame there isn’t an academy thread.?

Getting back to the potential takeover,

Fact : No limits sports ltd have agreed terms to buy DCFC.

Fact: Due diligence has been completed and the SPA signed.

Fact : A deposit has been paid and proof of funds has been seen by Mel’s lawyers.

Fact: We are waiting on EFL approval for the takeover.

Have I missed anything ?

 

No but we all knew that-fact

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