Gee SCREAMER !! Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 15 minutes ago, BIllyD said: Based on what footymum said, why would he sign it ? What benefit is it to the lad if we are already touting him around in the first place ? I cannot accept that Derby having stumbled on a wonder kid would be touting him round to the highest bidder like Del boy . They would offer him a contract to get him signed up and in the first team racking up value as soon as possible. Even more so at the minute . The difference could be 10 million quid in 5 months. Any club buying wouldn't take Derbys word for it anyway. They must have been looking at him for a while based on there own coaches analysis. Rampage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: We didn't start touting him until he wouldn't sign - that's what I took @Footymum2017's original statement way back when on the Academy thread, when she erroneously wrote 'he didn't want to stay' but meant to put 'he didn't want to sign'. Possibly, if he is not wanting to sign a contract then what is the difference between that and not wanting to stay. There are of course many reasons for that question, but when cash is at a premium, makes you wonder.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: I cannot accept that Derby having stumbled on a wonder kid would be touting him round to the highest bidder like Del boy . They would offer him a contract to get him signed up and in the first team racking up value as soon as possible. Even more so at the minute . The difference could be 10 million quid in 5 months. Any club buying wouldn't take Derbys word for it anyway. They must have been looking at him for a while based on there own coaches analysis. What do we need most, guaranteed 1 million now or a possible XX million in a few months / years time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroyoftherovers Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, BIllyD said: What do we need most, guaranteed 1 million now or a possible XX million in a few months / years time ? Don't think it's about what we want or need, its all about what Kaide wants and needs, feels like he has all the power. Gee SCREAMER !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, leroyoftherovers said: Don't think it's about what we want or need, its all about what Kaide wants and needs, feels like he has all the power. A player in demand always will and I expect that is the root cause of his departure, no doubt. However my point is that in this instance, it probably suited all parties given where we are with our cash flow. leroyoftherovers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footymum2017 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Ok United then. Still the same scenario though. I assume this pre agreement is all because of his age leading to a pro contract at 17. Why would we wait based on his potential for Man utd to come in. Offering him a contract to put him in the shop window makes no sense, you only lose out long term . You offer a contract and get it signed, then put him in the shop window by him being round the first team. They were trying to persuade him to sign by putting him on the bench, he was unsure about committing so early when he hasn’t even started his 2 year scholar contract yet. He was never going to come on for the 1st team unless they were winning comfortably. He’s nowhere near ready for first team football and I would imagine that if he had signed the pre agreement then he would be back down to the 18s or 23s, it’s not doing him any good sitting on the bench. When Derby got a confirmed bid for him which they rejected he was basically told that if a higher bid came in that they would sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said: They were trying to persuade him to sign by putting him on the bench, he was unsure about committing so early when he hasn’t even started his 2 year scholar contract yet. He was never going to come on for the 1st team unless they were winning comfortably. He’s nowhere near ready for first team football and I would imagine that if he had signed the pre agreement then he would be back down to the 18s or 23s, it’s not doing him any good sitting on the bench. When Derby got a confirmed bid for him which they rejected he was basically told that if a higher bid came in that they would sell him. Derby can't sell him . They can only get a fee based on his age or go to tribunal. He's forced there hand by not accepting a contract offer and had no problem committing to an offer from Liverpool where game time will be harder to come by, so that one doesn't really wash. Will Hughes was playing regular at 17. Huddlestone at 16. Hendrick just turned 18. If he's good enough he would get games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footymum2017 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 13 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Derby can't sell him . They can only get a fee based on his age or go to tribunal. He's forced there hand by not accepting a contract offer and had no problem committing to an offer from Liverpool where game time will be harder to come by, so that one doesn't really wash. Will Hughes was playing regular at 17. Huddlestone at 16. Hendrick just turned 18. If he's good enough he would get games. I'm not going to keep going over it, if you think that you know better then fair enough. At the end of the day he is a 16 year old kid, who was trying to make the best decision about his future, I'm not sure what is so wrong with that and why they couldn't give him the time to make that decision. They needed the money and that's why he's going. Gap tooth ram, Dimmu, Carl Sagan and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Footymum2017 said: I'm not going to keep going over it, if you think that you know better then fair enough. At the end of the day he is a 16 year old kid, who was trying to make the best decision about his future, I'm not sure what is so wrong with that and why they couldn't give him the time to make that decision. They needed the money and that's why he's going. Fair enough. I'm just not buying the neatly wrapped package your promoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) Edited January 27, 2021 by The Scarlet Pimpernel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, BIllyD said: Possibly, if he is not wanting to sign a contract then what is the difference between that and not wanting to stay. There are of course many reasons for that question, but when cash is at a premium, makes you wonder.... Wants to stay but doesn't feel the contract on offer is good enough so doesn't want to sign it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 23 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said: I'm not going to keep going over it, if you think that you know better then fair enough. At the end of the day he is a 16 year old kid, who was trying to make the best decision about his future, I'm not sure what is so wrong with that and why they couldn't give him the time to make that decision. They needed the money and that's why he's going. Unfortunately that is football now - The money side of the game is so important especially to a club like ours which doesn't have PL revenues but aims to compete at the top level He might be 16 but that's the exact age when potential professionals have to make some kind of commitment - Fully appreciate he's just a kid but he's also old enough to have left school and be in full time employment now - And why should the club give him time to make a decision for his benefit which might screw them over? From a club standpoint if an offer is/was on the table and he's chosen not to take it Derby have to look out for the investment they've made in him - We have a manager who was playing first team football at this age and made a firm and decisive commitment to the club who developed him so will probably expect that of other people too leroyoftherovers, Carnero, Gee SCREAMER !! and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footymum2017 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Unfortunately that is football now - The money side of the game is so important especially to a club like ours which doesn't have PL revenues but aims to compete at the top level He might be 16 but that's the exact age when potential professionals have to make some kind of commitment - Fully appreciate he's just a kid but he's also old enough to have left school and be in full time employment now - And why should the club give him time to make a decision for his benefit which might screw them over? From a club standpoint if an offer is/was on the table and he's chosen not to take it Derby have to look out for the investment they've made in him - We have a manager who was playing first team football at this age and made a firm and decisive commitment to the club who developed him so will probably expect that of other people too He's not old enough to have left school, he's in his last year. He hadn't made the decision, that is my point and as I said they wouldn't have let him go if they didn't need the money. So Derby haven't lost out, they have done what is best for them at this moment in time. Will Hughes Hair, roboto and Carnero 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 18 minutes ago, Footymum2017 said: He's not old enough to have left school, he's in his last year. He hadn't made the decision, that is my point and as I said they wouldn't have let him go if they didn't need the money. So Derby haven't lost out, they have done what is best for them at this moment in time. He could sign the pre-contract *now* though? It's not a huge commitment, but it does protect the club paying out for his education currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 50 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Wants to stay but doesn't feel the contract on offer is good enough so doesn't want to sign it? Which was my point. So many people are saying we had no option, but we don't know what that contract was. As the above post alludes to, we need the money, had we not then there is a chance that he would have still been a Derby player for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BIllyD said: As the above post alludes to, we need the money, had we not then there is a chance that he would have still been a Derby player for years to come. Or perhaps we don't think he's worth that gamble and a few million is better to have now, than 'how much for Hughes' later down the line. How much would a 'better contract' at his level cost us afterall?! Edited January 27, 2021 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsFan10 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Good luck to the lad, an amazing opportunity for him and his family. Hopefully we have some sell on clauses. jono and ck- 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 With a very young player its sometimes its a case of a balance what is on offer now against what may or may not be on offer later on. It our current predicament we need funds and the lad does not want to sign a contact with us. So the only thing we can do is try to negotiate the best possible deal we can possibly get. If a number of clubs want him this becomes a little easier if however he and his family have their heart set on one then we have to go with their wishes. If we get a good amount up front now and then include add on on for appearances, caps, percentage sell on then all the better. The lad and his parents should leave on the best of terms with our blessing. This sends out a wonderful message to other would be talents if they join our club they will be helped to develop their skills, given a route into the 1st team and we will not stand in their way or hinder their future progress. ck-, DCFC1388, Andrew3000 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 In 6 or 7 years' time we are going to be drawn against some non-league team or other in the FA cup and we'll see Kaide Gordon's name among their subs and say, ' Ooh look. remember all that wailing and gnashing of teeth when we lost him for peanuts all those years ago?' MuespachRam and Patrick Rams 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said: With a very young player its sometimes its a case of a balance what is on offer now against what may or may not be on offer later on. It our current predicament we need funds and the lad does not want to sign a contact with us. So the only thing we can do is try to negotiate the best possible deal we can possibly get. If a number of clubs want him this becomes a little easier if however he and his family have their heart set on one then we have to go with their wishes. If we get a good amount up front now and then include add on on for appearances, caps, percentage sell on then all the better. The lad and his parents should leave on the best of terms with our blessing. This sends out a wonderful message to other would be talents if they join our club they will be helped to develop their skills, given a route into the 1st team and we will not stand in their way or hinder their future progress. Great post. Makes a change from those who seem to have taken young Kaide's exit as a personal slight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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