nottingram Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Coconut said: As per @86 Schmokes & a Pancake he could say nothing at all. Or, even if he did have to say something, there wasn't really any need for him to throw in the line about Cocu having the players' backing as well. Just saying the club are backing him would be more than enough. He wasn't too bothered about his standing with the club when he posted that story about our financial dealings with Henry Gabay! I also doubt that The Athletic would be too happy if they perceived him to have become a club stooge when he's supposed to be an independent, impartial journalist. Oh and.. I thought he actually was a forest fan? Have I got that wrong? Arsenal fan, I believe He doesn’t seem the type of journalist who is relying on scoops or gossip or anything like that, more a long form writer or analytical pieces. Gets access to the press conferences and certain interviews but isn’t the sort to reveal breaking transfer news and that isn’t really what the Athletic is about. Would be a terrible look if the club stopped granting him access to interviews if he’s critical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, Coconut said: As per @86 Schmokes & a Pancake he could say nothing at all. Or, even if he did have to say something, there wasn't really any need for him to throw in the line about Cocu having the players' backing as well. Just saying the club are backing him would be more than enough. He wasn't too bothered about his standing with the club when he posted that story about our financial dealings with Henry Gabay! I also doubt that The Athletic would be too happy if they perceived him to have become a club stooge when he's supposed to be an independent, impartial journalist. Oh and.. I thought he actually was a forest fan? Have I got that wrong? In the same way Phil Hay is supposed to be an independent, impartial journalist when it comes to Leeds? All I am saying is that nowadays when it comes to what local journalists report, it carries little weight because of the fragile dynamic between clubs and the media and the need for journalists to stay onside. We’ve seen it at Forest, we’ve seen it at Newcastle, we’ve seen it at United, so we know it happens. Now I may be wrong and everything could be hunky dory behind the scenes and Conway is merely relaying everything as it actually is. The proof will be in the pudding. If we see a fired up response on Friday, then that’s wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Jourdan said: In the same way Phil Hay is supposed to be an independent, impartial journalist when it comes to Leeds? All I am saying is that nowadays when it comes to what local journalists report, it carries little weight because of the fragile dynamic between clubs and the media and the need for journalists to stay onside. We’ve seen it at Forest, we’ve seen it at Newcastle, we’ve seen it at United, so we know it happens. Now I may be wrong and everything could be hunky dory behind the scenes and Conway is merely relaying everything as it actually is. The proof will be in the pudding. If we see a fired up response on Friday, then that’s wonderful. I'm sorry but enough is enough. It's 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Jayram said: For me it is 100% about the style of football played. If Cocu suddenly had an epiphany and decided to play in a creative attacking style I’d fight tooth and nail for him to stay for the next 10 years. I just think he is wedded to his style and cannot change, even though it is patently not working. I hated Rowettball even when we were winning because it was industrial percentage football and I don’t want to see that sort of thing again. So in short it’s Steve maclaren back or nothing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I've been in so far. I'm still in. I'll still be in by the end of this season... and next! ...Did I ever tell you about the time I bumped into him at the model village in Bourton on the Water? Smashing bloke. Lovely family. And ever since we started camping, we've always thought very highly of the Dutch, in general. Such a lovely nation! Call me loyal, or call me loopy, but don't ever call me a maybe! Me and Phil are like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desirelines Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Was feeling really pessimistic last night, but feeling a bit better about it today (usually the case!) I think in this crappy, weird season of no fans in stadiums, finishing around mid-table would be a fine achievement. Another year of experience for the young lads. A full season under the belt of the Jozwiak, Ibe and Bielik and the other new chaps, who will hopefully we raring to go next season when we have fans back in grounds and another hopefully another decent summer transfer window. I'm going to give Cocu a free pass this year (yes, I understand that will essentially mean 50% of his contract will have been a 'free pass' but last year was mental off the pitch) unless we find ourselves in a relegation battle towards the arse-end of the season. Would ideally like to see some improvement in the style of play too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I'm with @86 Schmokes. Cocu well in. He'll go sometime but hopefully not for a good while and certainly not after Friday, whatever the result. Teams take time to build, ask Klopp and Ferguson and Clough (either) - last season was about post Mount etc, off pitch shenanigans and about learning about the squad and the league, never mind the financial and EFL situation and Covid. This season has hardly begun and he hasn't yet got anywhere near a first pick squad never mind team on the pitch, through no fault of his own. And we change him for who exactly? Mick Mcarthy or Paul Cook or Nigel or Howe or Rooney or AN Other. Pearson's free too. And the scottish dwarf. And how long do they get with no money to spend? Do they buy into the 'developing youth' strategy? How soon before fans want them out too because the footie isn't exciting enough or successful enough? How quickly we forget the lessons of our history. Brian's first full season ended up 19th and with calls for his head; Arthur's first season, still in the third division and calls for his head; Jim's first season - 10th after 15 games, playing badly and calls for his head. Thank God for no social media in those days, no forums of experts and alleged inside knowledge. What would we have missed if three different chairmen had listened to the 'expertise' from the BBG terraces and stands? Stand strong Mel. And Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayram Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, Archied said: So in short it’s Steve maclaren back or nothing ? I never said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I'm sorry but enough is enough. It's 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating'. I can sense that's not the first time that phrase has angered you? I hate the Einstein insanity quote that isn't Einstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, rynny said: If the last 3 games had been drawn would this even be a thing? We would have the same points, the fact we were inches away in the last 2 games from getting draws as well (Rooney sitter rolling the wrong side of the post against Watford and Clarke hitting the post last night), just makes me think this talk is rather premature. I think were missing the point,its not the points we have gained even then that was fortunate, its the way we are playing thats a concern we are creating nothing,3 home games three defeats and zero goals from those games tells you everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Bam Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Still in for me. To turn this round it's not going to happen straight away, you've got to play yourself out of it with gradual improvements, imo we're starting to see that. 2 solid displays against Norwich and Watford and a first half last night that was more like we want to see. it was fine margins over the last 2 games that stopped us potentially picking up a possible point in each. The odd bits I've seen of us there's been nice play up until the final third where we come a bit stuck but the returning players should improve that. Lawrence made his first start of the season last night and lasted an hour, Waghorn came on for half an hour, Bielik and Ibe to play for the under 23s on Friday and Rooney back after 2 more games (not really sure if this is a good thing or not) give them 4-5 games to get up to speed and a few to gel. If results and performance haven't picked up then I'll reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ram Bam said: Still in for me. To turn this round it's not going to happen straight away, you've got to play yourself out of it with gradual improvements, imo we're starting to see that. 2 solid displays against Norwich and Watford and a first half last night that was more like we want to see. it was fine margins over the last 2 games that stopped us potentially picking up a possible point in each. The odd bits I've seen of us there's been nice play up until the final third where we come a bit stuck but the returning players should improve that. Lawrence made his first start of the season last night and lasted an hour, Waghorn came on for half an hour, Bielik and Ibe to play for the under 23s on Friday and Rooney back after 2 more games (not really sure if this is a good thing or not) give them 4-5 games to get up to speed and a few to gel. If results and performance haven't picked up then I'll reconsider. Two irreplaceable players 1 Keogh 2 Martin We have got rid of all the players that we wanted to to get rid of so - We need another set of players that we want to get rid of to replace the ones that we have got rid of that we wanted to get rid of. Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Fair play to Mel for coming out and again backing his manager in the media. It must be very difficult for Cocu to do his job properly when there’s all this speculation about, so having that public backing from his chairman must relieve the pressure a bit. I think it’s the right call at the moment too, Cocu deserves a chance to turn this around now most of the squad is nearly fit. One thing I don’t like is this suggestion of “40 games is plenty of time to turn things around”. It’s true, but 40 games is also plenty of time to end up in League One. Cocu deserves a bit more time, but we certainly shouldn’t be giving him the full season just for the sake of it. He’s got to start showing some progress quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Jayram said: I never said that. Nope but if you look at the criteria your setting then it points to a relatively small period that maclaren was in charge , god who’s to say he could find that blend again if he came back , he’s not really found it since he left and not too often before in his career, all this stuff about how we must play ,results aren’t enough guff does my head in ,,all out charge of the light brigade is the only thing that will be accepted ,oh and we have to be challenging for promotion with it or else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 “he understands the need to score more goals” is the bit that stood out. clearly he has had a little lesson from Mel. he must think “what a talented chairman I have” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, RamNut said: “he understands the need to score more goals” is the bit that stood out. clearly he has had a little lesson from Mel. he must think “what a talented chairman I have” Must be worrying for Mel that Phil didn't get that prior to their chat,so he felt the need to remind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Fair play to Mel for coming out and again backing his manager in the media. It must be very difficult for Cocu to do his job properly when there’s all this speculation about, so having that public backing from his chairman must relieve the pressure a bit. Not sure it does, just gives the media another angle to come in from. ‘Vote of confidence’ from the owner angle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 15 hours ago, Andicis said: There is still time to save our season. There is time to fix our players' confidence. We can still stop the rot. If you believe Cocu can do that, that's fine, but if you don't, then there is absolutely reason to get rid of Cocu now. No one really know what would happen if Cocu stays, he might turn it round, he might not. There just doesn't seem enough evidence to make a proper decision one way or the other. We did ok last season in rather difficult circumstances. This year we've had lots of forwards injured and a transfer window with some promise but no time at all to judge. We are still in the ifs and buts stage. Norwich scored their pen and we might have lost ever game and people baying for blood. Rooney scores vs Watford and Clarke's header goes in, then everyone is much happier. We've played much better over the last 3 games and a little unlucky to lose 2 of them. The idea of changing managers again now just seem depressing. All that wasted money and time, just to probably have the same situation in about 12-18th months time. Yes, we may hit the jackpot and suddenly become good again. But history suggests not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: how many times would you eat a Chef's food if he served you undercooked or burnt disgusting food? Would you sit there saying "it's too soon, I'll keep coming back for another year, eating this rubbish, in the deluded hope that something will change"?? The manager's job is to get the best out of the 11 on the pitch. There's probably not a team in professional football that currently has it's best 11 players available!! It is not so much he hasn't have what you term his best players, it is more that he hasn't been able to turn out a side with a half decent balance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Not sure it does, just gives the media another angle to come in from. ‘Vote of confidence’ from the owner angle... Maybe, but the media probably won’t rest until Rooney is in charge. They just want the headline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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