Straw poll

[Alph]

29 minutes ago, DC-1975 said:

What has McClaren done in the last 6 years that suggests he is the right man. Plenty of other managers have out performed him over that time. Surely it's time to move on!

Paul Cook as a No.2? Why would he accept that when he's got a reputation as being a good No.1?

As a Mac fanboy I still agree with that. 

I feel like its a bit like running home after every argument with your partner. 

I'd much rather Cocu show that he understands the limitations of his players and the Championship. If not then I'd rather look to the next man who knows the league but also has a reputation for developing fine players. Make a shortlist and try again.

Cocu reminds me of De Boer and LVG's time over here. While he's educating players to play this really expansive and smart controlled game other teams are just scoring from crap crosses, deflections, corners, hit 'n' hopes and other simple direct approaches. 

I would love to see Cocu, LVG or De Boer try and understand why a fit Andy Carroll is good. 

Its in our game/philosophy to play fast and physical. Not like Sunday afternoon Ch4 Football Italia. 

None of these managers seemed to marry their philosophy with the ugliness that they inherit. 

[tomsdubs]

10 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I'm in. Although, if he is to be 'let go' then I would hope that his entire contract is paid up in full (along with those who leave with him). 

Pretty sure manager contracts these days have a clause for a maximum pay up of contract, sure I read most managers agree a years full wages. Could be wrong.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

As a Mac fanboy I still agree with that. 

I feel like its a bit like running home after every argument with your partner. 

I'd much rather Cocu show that he understands the limitations of his players and the Championship. If not then I'd rather look to the next man who knows the league but also has a reputation for developing fine players. Make a shortlist and try again.

Cocu reminds me of De Boer and LVG's time over here. While he's educating players to play this really expansive and smart controlled game other teams are just scoring from crap crosses, deflections, corners, hit 'n' hopes and other simple direct approaches. 

I would love to see Cocu, LVG or De Boer try and understand why a fit Andy Carroll is good. 

Its in our game/philosophy to play fast and physical. Not like Sunday afternoon Ch4 Football Italia. 

None of these managers seemed to marry their philosophy with the ugliness that they inherit. 

But didn’t we play ok first half last night and weren’t we the better team ! 

[Alph]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

It is failure.  

Is this you supporting Mac mate 

No, its not. 

If Wycombe stay up but don't get promoted have they failed?

Have some context. You're talking about a Derby team that has no right to be in the PL.

All these lesser clubs like Wigan, Leicester, Swansea, Stoke etc etc have all been more established at the top than the mighty Derby County in my lifetime. 

This Derby is a big standard Championship side. And apart from a humiliating effort about 12 years ago it was when Malcolm Christie was in his early 20's that Derby got relegated with 30 points under John Gregory. That's Malcolm Christie who's in his 40's. 

Do you think anything less than promotion is failure for any Championship team? Rotherham? Sheffield Wednesday? Forest? Boro? Bristol City? Luton? 

Is coming 17th in the Premier League success? Or is it only success if you win that league too? I'm guessing for a lot of entitled Derby fans success is not getting battered by Man City just enough to stay up is success. But getting 80+ goals and points from 46 games is failure. 

Derby failed to get promotion. Thats the limit of their failure. There was so much success that season. As there was under Lampard and Rowett. I had no time for Rowett but he didn't fail. He was just not pro active. 

It doesn't make Derby less of a club to me if I accept that they're some bog standard team not on Man United's radar. They mean everything to me and Man United can piss off. 

We don't need Derby to matter to Jeff Stelling. There might not be 300 cameras on us each game but do we need Sky cameras to tell us we matter? 

We're a fairly large fish in this pond. We should be competing at the top end. I'd say anything less is failure. Playing for a draw is failure. Not being one of the top clubs in this league is failure. 

But promotion? Only 3 teams can get promoted and there are more than a handful of Derby County size fish. 

And then there's clubs like Brentford and Bournemouth who despite being looked down on are now very much worthy of beating Derby. 

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, Alpha said:

No, its not. 

If Wycombe stay up but don't get promoted have they failed?

Have some context. You're talking about a Derby team that has no right to be in the PL.

All these lesser clubs like Wigan, Leicester, Swansea, Stoke etc etc have all been more established at the top than the mighty Derby County in my lifetime. 

This Derby is a big standard Championship side. And apart from a humiliating effort about 12 years ago it was when Malcolm Christie was in his early 20's that Derby got relegated with 30 points under John Gregory. That's Malcolm Christie who's in his 40's. 

Do you think anything less than promotion is failure for any Championship team? Rotherham? Sheffield Wednesday? Forest? Boro? Bristol City? Luton? 

Is coming 17th in the Premier League success? Or is it only success if you win that league too? I'm guessing for a lot of entitled Derby fans success is not getting battered by Man City just enough to stay up is success. But getting 80+ goals and points from 46 games is failure. 

Derby failed to get promotion. Thats the limit of their failure. There was so much success that season. As there was under Lampard and Rowett. I had no time for Rowett but he didn't fail. He was just not pro active. 

It doesn't make Derby less of a club to me if I accept that they're some bog standard team not on Man United's radar. They mean everything to me and Man United can piss off. 

We don't need Derby to matter to Jeff Stelling. There might not be 300 cameras on us each game but do we need Sky cameras to tell us we matter? 

We're a fairly large fish in this pond. We should be competing at the top end. I'd say anything less is failure. Playing for a draw is failure. Not being one of the top clubs in this league is failure. 

But promotion? Only 3 teams can get promoted and there are more than a handful of Derby County size fish. 

And then there's clubs like Brentford and Bournemouth who despite being looked down on are now very much worthy of beating Derby. 

With the resources MM gave previous managers its failure .

Sorry don’t do monologues lol ? 

I always read your posts though and I’m the Rowett fan remember 

[ollycutts1982]

I don’t know at the minute. We can’t keep chopping and changing and starting again. At some point we need to back a manager. But........ the football is turgid, boring and so predictable. We need the shackles taking off and let them play. 
 

The last 12 games don’t fill me with confidence, neither does the attacking capability of the team. 
 

If he were to go, and Friday we must see a massive massive improvement in performance it would be Paul Cook for me. If it were Eddie Howe I don’t think we’d ever see Ibe. 
 

The only thing boring about being a Derby fan at the minute is the football. 

[maxjam]

I'm still in.

Its obviously getting harder to look forward to matches but I've always been an advocate of giving managers time.

He's got until Christmas for me to put this bad start behind us.

[rammieib]

2 hours ago, Sith Happens said:

I am in, but i usually say that anyway, changing our managers frequently (not all our own fault of course) is very damaging so i am one for the status quo and letting someone build something as there is usually some sort of reset when a new manager comes in (excluding mac 1 and 2 maybe).

I think had i been getting off my backside and going to pride park instead of sat comfy on my sofa my view might be changing faster than it is.

I like him, i think hes been dealt an awful hand since he got here, but god i need to see something, i felt we where from when Rooney signed, but seriously makes me thing how good that combo of rooney picking it up in midfield, martin creating space for the runners really was...

I know its Martin again, but i cant apologise because we just havent replaced him, it will cost more than we needed to offer him to replace him i am sure of it.

 

I guess part of the question is how much of the blame on Martin going lies with Cocu and how much lies with MM/SP.

[Anag Ram]

2 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said:

I don’t know at the minute. We can’t keep chopping and changing and starting again. At some point we need to back a manager. But........ the football is turgid, boring and so predictable. We need the shackles taking off and let them play. 
 

The last 12 games don’t fill me with confidence, neither does the attacking capability of the team. 
 

If he were to go, and Friday we must see a massive massive improvement in performance it would be Paul Cook for me. If it were Eddie Howe I don’t think we’d ever see Ibe. 
 

The only thing boring about being a Derby fan at the minute is the football. 

Difficult being attacking when you have five at the back and three holding midfielders! ?

[Carnero]

Still in by a whisker, only because I want to see a "long-term project" come to fruition for once, rather than bailing out 25% of the way through and starting all over again.

I'm not sure that straw polls posted straight after a game are entirely fair and representative by the way.

[rammieib]

7 minutes ago, Alpha said:

No, its not. 

If Wycombe stay up but don't get promoted have they failed?

Have some context. You're talking about a Derby team that has no right to be in the PL.

All these lesser clubs like Wigan, Leicester, Swansea, Stoke etc etc have all been more established at the top than the mighty Derby County in my lifetime. 

This Derby is a big standard Championship side. And apart from a humiliating effort about 12 years ago it was when Malcolm Christie was in his early 20's that Derby got relegated with 30 points under John Gregory. That's Malcolm Christie who's in his 40's. 

Do you think anything less than promotion is failure for any Championship team? Rotherham? Sheffield Wednesday? Forest? Boro? Bristol City? Luton? 

Is coming 17th in the Premier League success? Or is it only success if you win that league too? I'm guessing for a lot of entitled Derby fans success is not getting battered by Man City just enough to stay up is success. But getting 80+ goals and points from 46 games is failure. 

Derby failed to get promotion. Thats the limit of their failure. There was so much success that season. As there was under Lampard and Rowett. I had no time for Rowett but he didn't fail. He was just not pro active. 

It doesn't make Derby less of a club to me if I accept that they're some bog standard team not on Man United's radar. They mean everything to me and Man United can piss off. 

We don't need Derby to matter to Jeff Stelling. There might not be 300 cameras on us each game but do we need Sky cameras to tell us we matter? 

We're a fairly large fish in this pond. We should be competing at the top end. I'd say anything less is failure. Playing for a draw is failure. Not being one of the top clubs in this league is failure. 

But promotion? Only 3 teams can get promoted and there are more than a handful of Derby County size fish. 

And then there's clubs like Brentford and Bournemouth who despite being looked down on are now very much worthy of beating Derby. 

 

Spot on with the post but especially spot on with the highlighted line. We are playing not to concede (Conceded 10, scored 2) so we're failing on the not conceding part. We're also failing on the scoring part.

Put the two together and that is a managers responsibility.

Under Mac - we would play 5 attacking players, full backs could push on, GT/JE would sit and protect.

Under Cocu - we play 3 centre backs, and still have 2 holding midfielders.

It's crazy, absolutely crazy.

We've had 16 shots on target in 6 games - that's less than 3 per game. It's woeful.

 

[Jayram]

1 hour ago, HorsforthRam said:

I’m “in” for the same reasons most other “ins” are. A questions for the “outs” that “need results now”. How long will you give a new man? How fast a turnaround would you want? If a new man is appointed and we are still struggling in Feb, will you want another new man in. Or are you “well it can’t be any worse” camp?

For me it is 100% about the style of football played. If Cocu suddenly had an epiphany and decided to play in a creative attacking style I’d fight tooth and nail for him to stay for the next 10 years. I just think he is wedded to his style and cannot change, even though it is patently not working. I hated Rowettball even when we were winning because it was industrial percentage football and I don’t want to see that sort of thing again. 

[Justa]

39 minutes ago, Curtains said:

But didn’t we play ok first half last night and weren’t we the better team ! 

But we were playing Ok against a very poor Huddersfield team !!!! Playing Ok for one half and losing badly in the 2nd half is just not good enough !!!

wake up !!!!!!

(sorry getting a bit stressed now!)

[Justa]

20 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I'm still in.

Its obviously getting harder to look forward to matches but I've always been an advocate of giving managers time.

He's got until Christmas for me to put this bad start behind us.

That’s a massive risk - at this rate how many points will we have by Xmas ?

[Sith Happens]

28 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I guess part of the question is how much of the blame on Martin going lies with Cocu and how much lies with MM/SP.

I wouldnt imagine Cocu was involved. I wouldnt blame anyone without knowing the full facts in fairness. I said someone else would cost us more but then i suppose i dont really know what Martin wanted.

By all accounts he was on £3 billion a week so reducing to 15k a week may have been a kick in the teeth for him ?

[Premier ram]

still positive that Cocu and the team can turn this round , Bielik is a big part of the project he will play the cdm role , releasing Knighty to bomb forward and support a good looking frontline , of course when all fit .

    Cocu is having to sort out the mess from the last 5-6 years and make no mistake Lampard isnt totally blameless , Cocus introduced the youngsters , managing them well , his signings on the whole are good , no other manager would have coped any better than him with whats been thrown at him , hes doing the best he can with the players he has available , when all fit the shackles will come off , the football will get more progressive and the corner will be turned

      Big game friday , a win could kickstart our season , lets give the manager and the team the support that being Derby County deserves, changing managers isnt always the answer

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

That Rotherham game got a really bad reaction on here. Calls for a proper manager like Pearson and "we should be beating teams like Rotherham"

There was a massive sense of entitlement around at the time. I hope the past few years have shown people that not getting promoted isn't necessarily failure. 

The massive sense of entitlement hasn't gone away

[goldstar]

2 hours ago, Rampage said:

A number of players appear to have lost their appetite for enjoying football. We seem bound by tactics. Dire to watch. Before Covid we were winning games. An unknown combination of factors has stopped that. More than unfit and injured players involved it seems. Something perhaps similar, happened to Forest and some other teams.

Can't argue with that, first sentence sums it all up!

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, rusgb said:

I keep willing this to work but nothing is happening. How many shots do you think we have had on target this season? We really lack any industry in the final third and set pieces tonight were an embarrassment. 

The answer... 18 shots on target in 8 games (inc cup games). Blackburn had 10 on target against us in one match... 

I cannot see any excuse for this. But I wonder what last season’s stats were because I’m not convinced they’re that different? Or perhaps it just felt that way.

[Comrade 86]

Still in and by some way. Thought we did just ok in the previous game. An improvement on what we'd seen before but a ways to go all the same. Against Hudders, I thought we took a decent step forward again despite the absence of some key players and in the first half at least, we played some really good stuff. could easily have got more from both matches. Waiting until a manager has assembled a team then chucking him out before said team is tested is the express highway to another period of extended misery IMO.

I've read all the Cocu arguments on here but I'm still miles from convinced we're anywhere near a point where a call needs to be made. To sack Phil without even waiting to see what happens when he gets a few more of the likes of Sibley, Rooney, Bielik, Ibe and a match sharp Lawrence and Waggy too, just seems daft to me. Each to their own, I guess.

As for Forest, folk should also remember that while we're struggling to field a fit 11, they have a huge squad of players to pick from and though others may disagree, Friday's game is only worth 3 points, just the same as all the others.