RoyMac5 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Rolleston said: So, were Cocu and his staff at this team building event? Either way it's hard to understand why they weren't there or if they were there how they allowed the evening to turn out like it did. They weren't there. They stayed away as it was 'team building' for the squad, okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosythram Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 51 minutes ago, Rolleston said: This all comes down to weak management. I'm afraid we need another manager who will instill some discipline and respect for this club. We are going in the wrong direction. What a pathetic comment, can’t believe a so called fan can actually come up with such absolute crap. Absolutely astounding, god knows what direction you would prefer, no wonder this forum is held in such low esteem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yeah that's speculation isn't it, or are you ITK? No, exactly why i said it was speculation, you are just trying to confuse me. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, Rolleston said: Cocu seems to be getting off very lightly with this, where was he when all this was happening? In bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, Rolleston said: Cocu seems to be getting off very lightly with this, where was he when all this was happening? I assume he was at home. The players in question refused the taxis on offer and decided to stay out drinking - nothing to do with Cocu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rolleston said: So, were Cocu and his staff at this team building event? Either way it's hard to understand why they weren't there or if they were there how they allowed the evening to turn out like it did. Have you ever been a manager of people? If so did you know their whereabouts 24 hours a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rosythram said: What a pathetic comment, can’t believe a so called fan can actually come up with such absolute crap. Absolutely astounding, god knows what direction you would prefer, no wonder this forum is held in such low esteem! By who? Andicis, Alph and jono 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Forest fans presumably ? RoyMac5, Steve How Hard? and Rev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rosythram said: What a pathetic comment, can’t believe a so called fan can actually come up with such absolute crap. Absolutely astounding, god knows what direction you would prefer, no wonder this forum is held in such low esteem! No its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: By who? It's a comment often posted on the Derby reddit page, which is no vision of beauty itself. People prefer different things, but there are plenty of active users on here that suggest its only a bitter few who dislike it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Rolleston said: This all comes down to weak management. I'm afraid we need another manager who will instill some discipline and respect for this club. We are going in the wrong direction. This comment is hilarious, clueless and deluded!!! I love this forum r_wilcockson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolleston Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I'm not suggesting that you know what your staff are up to 24 hours a day. Surely as an employee you know what is expected of you when you are out on company business. Money dosn't protect you from the law, just ask all those who got caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Alpha said: I probably wouldn't sign for Derby if there was other similar options Based on the club taking a hardline on Keogh? Counter-argument could go that any serious player with ambition wouldn't want to join a club that werent prepared to confront unacceptable drinking & associated misbehaviour. jono, RoyMac5 and Foxy Ram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, Rolleston said: I'm not suggesting that you know what your staff are up to 24 hours a day. Surely as an employee you know what is expected of you when you are out on company business. Money dosn't protect you from the law, just ask all those who got caught. But it was after. I am not condoning what they did but if you manage people, take them for a beer, then they go out after and get wrecked is it your fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I’m not a solicitor, but I have had some experience with contracts of employment – although, I’m far from being an expert in employment law. In the vast majority of contracts, for jobs that rely on some level of physical “activity”, there will be stipulations around what would constitute dismissal based on injuring oneself. It may/may not specifically be listed as “gross misconduct” and could, for example, fall under “gross negligence leading to an inability to perform the role assigned”. This could, essentially, read as the same thing, but it is less ambiguous, as gross misconduct could cover a wide range of things outside of the ability to perform a role. Roles this would apply to would range from builders, to highway maintenance, to where driving is an essential part of the role, etc. Now, there would be degrees of circumstance to what would constitute gross misconduct/negligence. If you are a builder and were, for example, to break a leg playing football, whilst you would be unable to perform your role for a period of time, unless specifically listed in your contract, it would be unlikely to be judged as gross misconduct/negligence – although your contract terms may/may not see you receive a lower level of sick-pay. However, if you were to break a leg (or worse) as a result of a drink driving incident (seems relevant!), then the likelihood is that this would fall under gross misconduct/negligence and there would be grounds for dismissal under the terms of your contract. Without having access to the full detail of the relevant investigations, I can only base my thoughts on the topic at hand, from the information that is in the public domain. Lawrence and Bennett, we are told, were fined the maximum allowable under the terms of their contract. To me (and I may be wide of the mark!), that would suggest that they were not deemed to be guilty of gross misconduct, but simply a high level of misconduct under the rules of the club, and thus were fined and allowed to continue with their employment. The fact that they were not injured in the incident probably (but not certainly) played a role in this, given they are still able to fulfill the primary role of their contract – i.e. available to play football as and when required. Keogh, on the other hand, is clearly unable to fulfill the primary role of his contract. The fact that this has occurred due to rank stupidity, is certainly acceptable as a means for gross misconduct. Without having any knowledge of Keogh’s contract, or club rules/statutes on what constitutes gross misconduct, it is impossible to say if his inability to play is the primary reason? I would be surprised, however, if it was not deemed to be a significant factor in any decision the club has made, alongside the fact that due to the nature of how the injuries occurred, it is highly unlikely that any insurance the club would have would cover any wages/cost. It would, in my opinion, go some way to explaining the difference in the outcomes of the 3 players disciplinary processes. rammieib, Carnero and LeedsCityRam 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 49 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Depends, you don't know what his mortgage is Not really, he's never going to get a better offer. It's take £3k and downsize to a smaller mansion, make a fraction of that as a pundit and live in a normal house or get a job as a big brother contestant impersonator and live in a flat above a chippy. Richard Keogh, the first footballer to lose a million pounds when his teammate hit the post. King Kevin and Ken Tram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Bring back nigel Pearson. No wait... But clearly they've been trusted too much (culture difference?) It’s actually well known in the industry that Nigel Pearson is a pussy Can’t deal with confrontation without his back room staff with him and in staff to player situations He just can’t stand doing media work so people think he’s this tough guy RadioactiveWaste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: Not really, he's never going to get a better offer. It's take £3k and downsize to a smaller mansion, make a fraction of that as a pundit and live in a normal house or get a job as a big brother contestant impersonator and live in a flat above a chippy. Richard Keogh, the first footballer to lose a million pounds when his teammate hit the post. I’d argue a lot of them did when Martin struck it at Wembley… CornwallRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolleston Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Cocu clearly dosn't know what he is managing, or he would never have allowed a team bonding session that was destined to get out of hand. He has to take some of the blame for this Ewe Ram, Dale The Ram, rammieib and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rolleston said: Cocu clearly dosn't know what he is managing, or he would never have allowed a team bonding session that was destined to get out of hand. He has to take some of the blame for this How is your knee? BarbadosRam, GenBr, rammieib and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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