Barrow (A) - Match Thread

[duncanjwitham]

5 minutes ago, Archied said:

No. Excuse ,,,, we were very very poor that’s on manager and players , 

here’s the thing , it’s not about what style we choose to play ,it’s about being very good at whatever way we (the manager) decide s to play , we could turn up every week and play the style that the Warne bashers want and be poor / inconsistent because let’s face it if the players struggle to complete single passes with any degree of competence then they ain’t gonna string 20 in a row together,

I don’t care what style any derby manager wants to play as long as we get bloody good at it and get results , so far in the main we / warne have got the results needed to get us back to the championship, if he doesn’t get his team getting results that realistically match our budget then I will be hoping for a change of manager but not because he doesn’t play the way I think football should be played or the style I prefer🤷🏻‍♂️

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  

If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

[Anag Ram]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  

If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

We’ve gone back to hiding in the box.

When a player gets into an advanced crossing position, he looks up to see a maximum of two Derby players hidden amongst five defenders.

No one thinks to drop off for the pull back, to race to the near or far post.

That’s part coaching, part common sense.

[DavesaRam]

3 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The team appear to lack cohesion, footballing intelligence and the ability to do the basics and impose themselves on games.

I'm not sure adding a couple of players is going to be the magic bullet we are hoping for, so how do we change things?

Play FOOTBALL??????

[DavesaRam]

3 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Training and making yourself available for selection is part of being a footballer...it's a whole package, He new he was going to warm the bench this season

It's a pity he didn't work on taking penalties aye 😉

Only because Yates was suspended, Last night was tailored for Brown to start...but🤷‍♂️

I'll catch you in a bit as I'm off out now...👍

 

If Warne does the t*** tactic re Brown on Saturday, maybe the fans can start chanting his name over and over without stopping until he gets brought on. "All we are saying, is give Brown a chance" - John Lennon, a possible Derby county fan if he'd still been alive.

[DCFC Kicks]

3 hours ago, TimRam said:

Disappointing performance then again 'lower' league teams are always more up for it. Missing 3 penalties is outrageous though. Always a risk in these competitions (league more important) of injuries think we came out of it ok though? Was watching game on and off so might have missed any. Then again at least we are not Middlesbrough! Did they put out their toddler team?

This isn't a fluke though. We've got rid of most our technical players and don't have many who can take a penalty. Forsyth shouldn't be anywhere near taking a pen. Barrow clearly had better penalty takers than us. When Ward isn't on the pitch we've got NML on set pieces and he's not brilliant.

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Alty_Ram said:

surely these are games where we should be looking to impose our football and our plan on the opposition.


 

The trouble is that we did - that was our game plan, into the flanks then hoof it into the middle, or preferably miles too high and out to the other wing.

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

it’s not about what style we choose to play ,it’s about being very good at whatever way we (the manager) decide s to play

Can a style not be inherently bad though? as in being the cause of why we aren't good

Edited August 28 by DCFC Kicks

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

If Warne does the t*** tactic re Brown on Saturday, maybe the fans can start chanting his name over and over without stopping until he gets brought on. "All we are saying, is give Brown a chance" - John Lennon, a possible Derby county fan if he'd still been alive.

I believe Brown should have started over Collins or even with Collins as the dual partner, PW sees Brown a damn site more than we do, But to stifle talent is a no no from me.

The old adage if he's good enough then he's old enough, Then there's the...well if he under performs it could set him back a while, I have a brand new bike in my shed but I refuse to use it as it will ware the tyres down 😁 

Edited August 28 by Ram-Alf

[jono]

15 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

That was atrocious tonight would never even try and argue against that 

The teeth grinding mind numbing perpetual negativity of a certain hard core of forum members win lose or draw is what drags the debate down all of the time. 

They are loving it, knowing full well after a poor game that there can’t be much pushback. .. I’ve seen .. we want Rowett (the same folk we’re all moaning about Rowett Ball, Then Roseignor .. All those talking about sidey backwards and no spirit of adventure or risk taking .. same people. 
 

Yep we played badly and Barrow played well. Guess what though:  last season we had 10 or 12 games where we were drab, lacklustre and poor. There was a time when we just didn’t know whether dynamic Rams or slothful Rams would turn up.
Yet we got promoted. There is a whole season in front of us and unlike another poster who cheerfully decides on 27th of August when we have 3 points on the board that we are going to finish last 🤣 I am not worried at all. Gloomy until Saturday morning but that’s it.

It’s going to be hard, we knew it would be. Meanwhile, the manager and the players have my support because they have some credit in the bank and I don’t point fingers based on one poor result. I sometimes wonder what on earth goes on in peoples minds .. They seem to get more pleasure from knocking things than seeing something being rebuilt

 

 

[Alty_Ram]

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

The trouble is that we did - that was our game plan, into the flanks then hoof it into the middle, or preferably miles too high and out to the other wing.

And if it's all we ever do then it's just so predictable and easy to defend against. We barely even attempted to play through the middle. Mix it up for flips sake. I think their midfield and defence were comfortable in the knowledge that we were not going to drive or pass our way through the middle and that eventually we would always go wide so they just needed to set themselves set for a hopeful ball in. Let's be clear, Barrow didn't just park the bus and put 11 men behind the ball, they had a go when they had the opportunity. It felt like their right back covered more ground with the ball at his feet than our whole team. Could we really not occasionally unlock a League 2 defence with some snappy passing and movement through the middle?

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, tomsdubs said:

Look at the service Yates got at Watford, he never stood a chance of scoring a goal. Could play all day and still never the ball at his feet in the box.

True but had we also asked him Not to defend half way in our half, the chances we did get to break he’d be on their last man, not have four defenders in his way.

[WystonRam]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

So maybe their youngsters are better than Boro's? How do they compare to League 2 players?

Hopefully they will draw Barrow in the next round and we can see 😃

[Crewton]

49 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

This isn't a fluke though. We've got rid of most our technical players and don't have many who can take a penalty. Forsyth shouldn't be anywhere near taking a pen. Barrow clearly had better penalty takers than us. When Ward isn't on the pitch we've got NML on set pieces and he's not brilliant.

Fozzy's scored in penalty shootouts in front of the Stretford End and at home to Salford. Maybe Frank Lampard and Liam Rosenior forgot to ask for your advice first?

Collins was our regular penalty taker last season and Jackson hit the post with his penalty. Losing a penalty shootout isn't a shock - even the best teams do it.

[Barney1991]

Has Collins penalty landed in anyone’s back garden yet? Did you pop the ball or throw it back 

['Rambe33]

Last night was bad and so was last year in the cup against Blackpool.

A genuine question I don’t know the answer to is can you decide not to enter a cup competition ie the Carabao. Or because we are a EFL club do we have to enter?
I’m speaking hypothetically as I know a club has never “opted-out” but would be an interesting move. 

I don’t buy into the “players weren’t trying” narrative. I would say there was probably a slightly uninterested approach to the game which tends to mean that you’ve already beat yourself. 

The players were sloppy for sure, so many loose passes that were simple 5/10 yarders stopped us getting any flow at all so that isn’t on Warne. 

However, the tactics worried me last night in particular just changing personnel at half time thinking “fresh blood will do it”. I think most fans wouldn’t have cared if we’d lost had we gone two up front, different formation and a genuine change in play second half to see a reaction but it was so flat throughout. 
 

I am really struggling to see what the game plan is at the moment which is my biggest concern. Is this Warne making a point to the board? 
Is it genuinely all he can get out of this group of players? - I don’t buy that. 

Ward was the only positive I could take from the game. Put some nice crosses in which is his main attribute. Sadly we have no one to get on the end of them… 

The resigning of Collins looks like a terrible sentimental decision highlighted even more last night. Once again Brown overlooked when it was another prime opportunity to give him a genuine chance.

Ugly football is fine if you are winning. We can only sit and pray we get some new bodies in before Friday… 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  

If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

Given that I have no interest in being or pretending to be a pundit and I’m not on the training ground or in team tactics talks I’m not best placed to answer that , as I say only a bit of time and results will tell us , it’s just silly people saying that they have no clue as to what Warne is trying to do means he has no clue himself and just smacks of playing championship manager on the pc which I’m not interested in doing either , results along with his pre and post match interviews will tell us if he can produce what we need , 3 league games into a season after just being promoted and pretty much a whole new team of players isn’t the point I feel able to make a fair judgement, if others do that’s up to them🤷🏻‍♂️

[NOTSA74]

17 hours ago, conkle said:

did they announce the away component of this low total given the capacity of 6500?

I think they said 718 but I'd had a few pints by that point.

You can add 30-40 Derby fans in the main stand including a small group at the back who spent most of the second half singing Derby are Massive.

[Ram-Alf]

38 minutes ago, 'Rambe33 said:

I don’t buy into the “players weren’t trying” narrative. I would say there was probably a slightly uninterested approach to the game which tends to mean that you’ve already beat yourself. 

 😉

[Archied]

2 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Can a style not be inherently bad though? as in being the cause of why we aren't good

No I don’t think so , as someone pointed out before Leicester won the premiership with something like 40% possession stats , you / we decide what’s good / what we like , football is a results game where styles ,tactics , formations go in and out of fashion , work for periods then get countered , you might have closer to a point if every team were only allowed to spend the same amount on players and wages but over the years and perhaps even more so in todays game clubs and managers have to tailor what they do playing wise to budgets and also what a manager or coach likes personally,

as I’ve made clear , I will judge whether I want warne gone on results v budget available to him over a period of time , maybe I’m an outlier but there’s lots I like about football not just attacking and keeping the ball I also like to see well organised teams control a game by controlling what the opponent can do with the ball , there’s more to controlling a game than just having the ball most of the time , just parking the bus very rarely works and I think fans often miss that ,

maybe that’s why I enjoy going to games , because I like lots of aspects of football, it’s a bit like when you see the football street performer do amazing things with a football, it great to watch for 5 mins but then your bored and move on , football is a living , breathing , unpredictable SPORT 

but each to they’re own , I will be setting off on the long drive Saturday morning not confident after barrow game but knowing I don’t actually know how it going to play out 🤷🏻‍♂️

[vonwright]

56 minutes ago, Archied said:

No I don’t think so , as someone pointed out before Leicester won the premiership with something like 40% possession

Seen this a few times. Really don't think it's comparable. Ranieri set Leicester up to absorb pressure and then counter attack with speed and precision (through the likes of Kante, Mahrez, Vardy and Okazaki). But their attacks weren't one dimensional and they didn't just lump it to the wings. They weren't reliant on dead ball situations or hopeful crosses. They almost always looked like scoring in a way we simply don't. 

Edited August 28 by vonwright